Author Topic: "Aggressive" Classical Music?  (Read 14636 times)

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Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2014, 06:55:51 PM »
Rossini Overtures conducted by Fritz Reiner would be perfect.

YouTube has some of them including The Barber of Seville and La Gazza Ladra

I second that vote for Reiner's album of Rossini's overtures. Great tunes, plenty of energy. It'll bowl you over.

Here are a couple of tracks from the album:

Gioachino Rossini (1792-1868) - The Thieving Magpie Overture (Original Italian title: La gazza ladra)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HsAdTUUhg9A" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HsAdTUUhg9A</a>



Gioachino Rossini (1792-1868) - William Tell Overture (Original Italian title: Guglielmo Tell)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/l9MDmH21xKs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/l9MDmH21xKs</a>
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 03:10:16 AM by Peter Power Pop »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2014, 08:06:09 PM »
Stravinsky's Le sacre du printemps and Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin will do nicely for 'aggressive' classical music. 'Nuff said. 8)
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Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2014, 09:12:22 PM »
Stravinsky's Le sacre du printemps and Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin will do nicely for 'aggressive' classical music. 'Nuff said. 8)

Those are both very aggressive works, but I wouldn't recommend them for someone starting off in classical music because they're not very approachable. The neophyte listener can be overwhelmed by what they're hearing if they're listening to a complex piece for the first time. They won't have any familiar musical conventions (i.e., hummable tunes, steady rhythm, attractive harmony) to hang on to as they discover the piece.

I only mention this because mgwolff, the person who started the thread, said, "I am quite new to classical music."
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 09:48:17 PM by Peter Power Pop »

Offline EigenUser

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2014, 12:00:56 AM »
Those are both very aggressive works, but I wouldn't recommend them for someone starting off in classical music because they're not very approachable. The neophyte listener can be overwhelmed by what they're hearing if they're listening to a complex piece for the first time. They won't have any familiar musical conventions (i.e., hummable tunes, steady rhythm, attractive harmony) to hang on to as they discover the piece.
Not so sure... I've known many people who have fallen for modern classical music before pre-20C. Sometimes the visceral thrill of a pieces like John suggested can impress newcomers. But, I do see your point.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2014, 12:25:29 AM »
Not so sure... I've known many people who have fallen for modern classical music before pre-20C. Sometimes the visceral thrill of a pieces like John suggested can impress newcomers.

I know where you're coming from. Sometimes newer classical music listeners can hear a piece for the first time and say, "Wow, that's so weird – but I like it!"

Quote
But, I do see your point.

Thanks.

Offline EigenUser

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2014, 12:28:19 AM »
I know where you're coming from. Sometimes newer classical music listeners can hear a piece for the first time and say, "Wow, that's so weird – but I like it!"
I've gotten this so many times! In fact, I think that it is how I sometimes am as well. It depends on the person, I suppose.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2014, 06:53:35 AM »
Those are both very aggressive works, but I wouldn't recommend them for someone starting off in classical music because they're not very approachable. The neophyte listener can be overwhelmed by what they're hearing if they're listening to a complex piece for the first time. They won't have any familiar musical conventions (i.e., hummable tunes, steady rhythm, attractive harmony) to hang on to as they discover the piece.

I only mention this because mgwolff, the person who started the thread, said, "I am quite new to classical music."

The user asked for 'aggressive' classical music and that's exactly what I suggested to him. We all are new to something at one point or another. If he's 'scared' by these works, then there are plenty of other suggestions on this thread to choose from. I understand being a new classical listener can be an overwhelming thing with all of this music to explore, but I think, personally speaking, that these two works will help him get his foot in the door. They may not be 'beginner' works, but, again, if you ask for it, you shall receive. This said, I do think both works are approachable and they're more conventional in sound than the Xenakis that Greg suggested. I'd never suggest Xenakis for a beginner. :)
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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2014, 06:59:50 AM »
Not so sure... I've known many people who have fallen for modern classical music before pre-20C. Sometimes the visceral thrill of a pieces like John suggested can impress newcomers. But, I do see your point.

Yes.  There's no one way which is right for all listeners.
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Offline NorthNYMark

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 10:58:26 AM »
Yes.  There's no one way which is right for all listeners.

Indeed.  There is no universal set of guidelines that will work well for every newcomer to classical music.  Some might respond best to opera, for example (because of its unambiguously narrative aspect), while others would run screaming.  Likewise, some might love the sunny elegance of 18th century classicism (which sounds like the case with this particular original poster), while others might find it too light or even "prissy."  Some will like the big, sweeping Romantic symphonies, while others might find them painfully bombastic.  When I began with classical, the Bartok and Xenakis recommendations would definitely have been the most enjoyable for me out of what has been recommended so far--at that point, I remember being disappointed upon first hearing the Rite of Spring, in that it sounded much more conventional/conservative than I had been led to expect.  Everyone is different!

That being said, I think in the case of MGWolff (the OP), Peter Power Pop is probably right that by "aggressive," he does not seem to mean modernist aggression, but something more along the lines of "sprightly tunefulness."  I think Daverz's recommendations are pretty spot-on in that context.

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2014, 01:20:15 PM »
When I was a kid I thought the Rite of Spring excerpt in Fantasia was awesome. Because of the dinosaurs, and the dance rhythms. So I recommend that. :)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2014, 03:25:21 PM »
Yes.  There's no one way which is right for all listeners.

Which all comes down to the listener, it's up to them to decide what they like and what they dislike.
“When a man is in despair, it means that he still believes in something.” - Dmitri Shostakovich

Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2014, 04:50:17 PM »
The user asked for 'aggressive' classical music and that's exactly what I suggested to him. ...

Fair enough.

Quote
... We all are new to something at one point or another. ...

Yep.

Quote
... If he's 'scared' by these works, then there are plenty of other suggestions on this thread to choose from. I understand being a new classical listener can be an overwhelming thing with all of this music to explore, but I think, personally speaking, that these two works will help him get his foot in the door. ...

I remember the first time I heard The Rite of Spring. I was a teenager, and at a friend's house in his  living room. His mother was with us, sitting in a chair and calmy knitting as we all listened to her music selection (well, we'd listened to our stuff – now it was her turn). When she mentioned The Rite was a ballet, I was gobsmacked. "That was a ballet???"

Quote
... They may not be 'beginner' works, but, again, if you ask for it, you shall receive. This said, I do think both works are approachable and they're more conventional in sound than the Xenakis that Greg suggested. I'd never suggest Xenakis for a beginner. :)

Yeah, that was a bit of a head-scratcher for me.

Just quietly, I reckon Xenakis might be the kind of stuff you'd recommend to someone if you wanted them to stay away from classical music. ("Oh, you won't like it. It's very scary.")

Oh, and speaking of scary (and getting off-topic):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sffh9spQopA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sffh9spQopA</a>

The first time I heard that was on a pair of headphones. I had it turned up loud, and it scared the heebee-jeebies out of me.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 04:54:57 PM by Peter Power Pop »

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2014, 04:55:47 PM »

Oh, and speaking of scary (and getting off-topic):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sffh9spQopA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sffh9spQopA</a>

The first time I heard that was on a pair of headphones. I had it turned up loud, and it scared the heebee-jeebies out of me.

Mmmm, great music. And yes, a little scary. I heard this piece about 20 years ago and was instantly fascinated with how frightening and beautiful music could be at the same time. Still love it to this day, and that Kronos Quartet recording was the first one I heard.

Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2014, 06:23:49 PM »
Indeed.  There is no universal set of guidelines that will work well for every newcomer to classical music.  Some might respond best to opera, for example (because of its unambiguously narrative aspect), while others would run screaming.  Likewise, some might love the sunny elegance of 18th century classicism (which sounds like the case with this particular original poster), while others might find it too light or even "prissy."  Some will like the big, sweeping Romantic symphonies, while others might find them painfully bombastic.  When I began with classical, the Bartok and Xenakis recommendations would definitely have been the most enjoyable for me out of what has been recommended so far--at that point, I remember being disappointed upon first hearing the Rite of Spring, ...

Whereas I was intrigued.

But I've been plenty mystified by other music on first hearing. (Hello, Bartók String Quartets.)

Quote
... in that it sounded much more conventional/conservative than I had been led to expect.  Everyone is different!

They sure are.

Quote
That being said, I think in the case of MGWolff (the OP), Peter Power Pop is probably right that by "aggressive," he does not seem to mean modernist aggression, but something more along the lines of "sprightly tunefulness."

When I saw mgwolff's list of music s/he enjoyed (Mozart, Vivaldi, Beethoven), I took his/her "aggressive" to mean "forthright".

In the realm of popular music, an equivalent to what mgwolff was describing would be power pop. (It's my favourite sub-genre of popular music, hence my online name.)

Power pop can be described as high-energy music. But it's not aggressive per se.

Prime examples of power pop:

Raspberries - "Go All The Way" (1972)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ULL7apmAJTE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ULL7apmAJTE</a>

Cheap Trick - "Surrender" (1978)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sAm5UCJ9vA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/1sAm5UCJ9vA</a>

Badfinger - "No Matter What" (1970)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9x1MZEDQbtA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/9x1MZEDQbtA</a>

If you want aggression in pop music, you turn to stuff like punk or metal.

Sorry about veering off-topic for a moment, but I wanted to illustrate my interpretation of MGWolff's original comment. (Plus I wanted to play you some power pop.)

For me, "aggressive" in the context of mgwolff's musical tastes means confident, upbeat, exuberant, triumphant, and probably a few other words I can't think of at the moment. (Where's my thesaurus?)

Yes.  There's no one way which is right for all listeners.

You're not wrong there.

Quote
I think Daverz's recommendations are pretty spot-on in that context.

Yes indeed.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 06:39:53 PM by Peter Power Pop »

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Re: Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2014, 02:15:00 AM »
Which all comes down to the listener, it's up to them to decide what they like and what they dislike.

That's true. The present question, though, is more that there is no one "folder," if you will, of classical music which will be The Ideal Entrée for all listeners. For some, a Mozart symphony, for others, a Tallis motet, for others still, Pierrot Lunaire.
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Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 02:56:17 AM »
That's true. The present question, though, is more that there is no one "folder," if you will, of classical music which will be The Ideal Entrée for all listeners. For some, a Mozart symphony, for others, a Tallis motet, for others still, Pierrot Lunaire.

Yep.

Offline Cato

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 03:26:50 AM »
Aggressive?  Spiritually aggressive?  Physically aggressive?

For the latter, Arvo Paert's Third Symphony (I believe) has a section where the musicians argue.   :laugh:

Also try: Cesar Franck's Le Chasseur Maudit (The Wild Huntsman)

For both senses: the 8 symphonies of Karl Amadeus Hartmann, the 6 organ symphonies of Louis Vierne, and of course the works of Anton Bruckner, Gustav Mahler, and Arnold Schoenberg.
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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2014, 03:36:18 AM »
For the latter, Arvo Paert's Third Symphony (I believe) has a section where the musicians argue.   :laugh:

They argue, but can only use the word Stockhausen.
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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2014, 03:57:18 AM »
It's amusing that we're debating what the OP meant by aggressive; amusing that we continue to recommend music. Does it matter anymore? Did it ever matter? He/she hasn't been back to the forum in three months. Last active, 1 July, the day he arrived  ;D


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Offline Cato

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Re: "Aggressive" Classical Music?
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2014, 04:18:26 AM »
They argue, but can only use the word Stockhausen.

The ultimate argument!

It's amusing that we're debating what the OP meant by aggressive; amusing that we continue to recommend music. Does it matter anymore? Did it ever matter? He/she hasn't been back to the forum in three months. Last active, 1 July, the day he arrived ;D


Sarge

Hmm, I did not notice that: just followed the herd off the cliff!   :laugh:

Oh well, others now have our recommendations: and any time I can recommend the works above to anyone who might give them a chance is a good day!   :laugh:
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

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