Author Topic: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence  (Read 15067 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kyjo

  • Guest
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2013, 06:33:50 PM »
I was really surprised to see no Takemitsu thread here! First of all, this is not one of those long, superlative-ridden rants of mine about a composer whose music I am familiar with and love. Takemitsu has been a composer who, for some reason or another, I have never bothered to investigate. From what I've heard about his music, he writes in a post-Debussyian fashion, composing mystical and vague but lyrical music often drawing on Japanese music and poetry. Can anyone give me recommendations on where to start with Takemitsu's music and/or further clarify what his style is like? Help would be most appreciated. :)

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 44239
  • Rued Langgaard (1893 - 1952)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Musik fra den himmelske by
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2013, 06:45:26 PM »
“I really would like to go to Marmorkirken. It was there that I heard music for the first time, and that experience is like a heavenly vision for me.” - Rued Langgaard

Offline Roberto

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
    • Egalizer
  • Location: Hungary
  • Currently Listening to:
    from 18th century to 21st century
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2013, 09:40:31 PM »
I first met with his music on a modern music concert (it was his String Quartet I think). I was fascinated immediately (at the time I was living in my Webern-era) so I decided to buy Takemitsu CD. I love his music but I need appropriate mood to listen to it. His works (what I know) are very similar in mood so I think ordinary classical music listener needs only one or two Takemitsu CD. But I am a Takemitsu-fan so I need more.  :)
Currently I have these:


It was my first album and I think it is the best recommendation for a Takemitsu-beginner. It is a cheap 2CD reissue of the original Denon recordings. It contains the famous Requiem for strings but Dream/Window is one of my favorite work on the 2nd CD. The best work for me is the Gémeaux. It is stirring, beautiful and the end is shocking and uplifting. (I will buy these works on the original Denon CD and give it to one of my friends.)


I don't like his piano music currently too much but maybe in the future...


Very good orchestral music with a good Requiem.


This CD is my current project. I listened to the first two works and these are beautiful and interesting.

Drasko

  • Guest
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2013, 12:38:59 AM »
This CD is my current project. I listened to the first two works and these are beautiful and interesting.

I'm huge Takemitsu fan as well. From that disc my favorite is Rain Spell, it's a piece so characteristic of everything I like about Takemitsu: the colors, the staticness, the japan meets west ...

It's great shame that some of his most interesting music is completely or at least very difficult to obtain. Japanese Victor has released some time ago incredible 7CD set with his film music but it was Japan-only and is nowhere to be found these days. Also the music he wrote for gagaku orchestra. A single movement was on DG's In An Autumn Garden (out of print, again) while the whole piece (which six part suite of sorts) has been recorded once or twice and currently in print is only japanese release by gagaku orchestra called Reigakusha. It's again Japan only release from Sony Japan, not exactly cheap but I'm saving my money for it.




http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=SICC-85


Offline Roberto

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
    • Egalizer
  • Location: Hungary
  • Currently Listening to:
    from 18th century to 21st century
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2013, 02:25:51 AM »
I'm huge Takemitsu fan as well. From that disc my favorite is Rain Spell, it's a piece so characteristic of everything I like about Takemitsu: the colors, the staticness, the japan meets west ...
The November Steps (on Brilliant CD I mentioned) is "japan meets west" also: he integrated two original Japanese instrument to the western orchestra. It is very interesting also because I feel he didn't want to veil the Japanese instruments so he retained their original character because when the orchestra sounds the Japanese instruments don't and vice versa.

It's again Japan only release from Sony Japan, not exactly cheap but I'm saving my money for it.
I hope you can buy it soon. That 7CD set is impressive but I think the film music of Takemitsu is too early for me.

kyjo

  • Guest
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2013, 04:30:15 AM »
The search engine here must be defective ::) Anyways, thanks for the helpful recommendations, guys! :)

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 44239
  • Rued Langgaard (1893 - 1952)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Musik fra den himmelske by
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2013, 05:32:56 AM »
The set of film music looks mighty tempting...

To my surprise, I found out the other day that my Dad loves Takemitsu. He asked me what recordings I owned and I found them for him so he could make copies of them. He said his favorite work was "A String Around Autumn" and I just nodded at him and smiled. That is a truly great work and Imai's performance is superior to Duke's IMHO.
“I really would like to go to Marmorkirken. It was there that I heard music for the first time, and that experience is like a heavenly vision for me.” - Rued Langgaard

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11063
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2013, 05:49:48 AM »
I have:

Denon series: the one with Gemeaux (oboe/trombone concerto)

RCA- Stolzman

RCA- String Quartet

Virgin- Knussen

DG- Knussen ('Signals')

ABC (Australian)- guitar ctos., 'Dream/Window', etc.,...

Sony- 'Flows Time'

Sony- guitar ctos.


Every time I think I want to check out some more TT, I listen to some pieces,... and wow,... he reeeally does sound alike in just about ALL his pieces,... Debussy + Messiaen,... so, I hesitate. If I were to, I'd probably go for the DG flute concerto disc, or the other DG re-release with the chamber music (is their a fourth one with 'Pentagonal', or is that on the chamber disc?).

Anyhow, if I need peace and quiet music, it's either Feldman or Toru.

The 'Flows Time' piece on the Sony is a nice 35min. meditation for percussion ensemble and orchestra,... not the place to start, perhaps, but a nice addition.


What's the go-to TT disc? Stolzman? Knussen? The John Williams disc? The DG flute disc? They seem all quite interchangeable, but each has its felicities.

Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 44239
  • Rued Langgaard (1893 - 1952)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Musik fra den himmelske by
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2013, 06:28:41 PM »
I have:

Denon series: the one with Gemeaux (oboe/trombone concerto)

RCA- Stolzman

RCA- String Quartet

Virgin- Knussen

DG- Knussen ('Signals')

ABC (Australian)- guitar ctos., 'Dream/Window', etc.,...

Sony- 'Flows Time'

Sony- guitar ctos.


Every time I think I want to check out some more TT, I listen to some pieces,... and wow,... he reeeally does sound alike in just about ALL his pieces,... Debussy + Messiaen,... so, I hesitate. If I were to, I'd probably go for the DG flute concerto disc, or the other DG re-release with the chamber music (is their a fourth one with 'Pentagonal', or is that on the chamber disc?).

Anyhow, if I need peace and quiet music, it's either Feldman or Toru.

The 'Flows Time' piece on the Sony is a nice 35min. meditation for percussion ensemble and orchestra,... not the place to start, perhaps, but a nice addition.


What's the go-to TT disc? Stolzman? Knussen? The John Williams disc? The DG flute disc? They seem all quite interchangeable, but each has its felicities.

You don't own a performance of A String Around Autumn? Oh dear...
“I really would like to go to Marmorkirken. It was there that I heard music for the first time, and that experience is like a heavenly vision for me.” - Rued Langgaard

Drasko

  • Guest
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 02:54:02 AM »
I have:

Denon series: the one with Gemeaux (oboe/trombone concerto)

RCA- Stolzman

RCA- String Quartet

Virgin- Knussen

DG- Knussen ('Signals')

ABC (Australian)- guitar ctos., 'Dream/Window', etc.,...

Sony- 'Flows Time'

Sony- guitar ctos.


Every time I think I want to check out some more TT, I listen to some pieces,... and wow,... he reeeally does sound alike in just about ALL his pieces,... Debussy + Messiaen,... so, I hesitate. If I were to, I'd probably go for the DG flute concerto disc, or the other DG re-release with the chamber music (is their a fourth one with 'Pentagonal', or is that on the chamber disc?).

Anyhow, if I need peace and quiet music, it's either Feldman or Toru.

The 'Flows Time' piece on the Sony is a nice 35min. meditation for percussion ensemble and orchestra,... not the place to start, perhaps, but a nice addition.


What's the go-to TT disc? Stolzman? Knussen? The John Williams disc? The DG flute disc? They seem all quite interchangeable, but each has its felicities.

My go-tos Knussen/Virgin and In An Autumn Garden/DG (that's the one solely on Japanese instruments), but Flows Time/Sony, Gallois/flute/DG are both superb (flute is what I think his strongest solo instrument playing on both flute and shakuhachi traditions), Flock Descends/DG has two great pieces but is filled up with some earlier stuff I never got into. Piano music is another area that never really sat with me.

Offline madaboutmahler

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3842
  • MAHLER: THE GREATEST!!!!
    • Daniel Hogan - Composer
  • Location: England
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mahler, Elgar, Ravel, Chopin, Schnittke, Dvorak, Vaughan Williams, Schmitt, Karlowicz, R.Strauss, Prokofiev, Shostakovich....
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2013, 10:12:58 AM »
Am currently listening to 'A String around autumn', and it's utterly gorgeous. My first listen to a whole piece of Takemitsu I think.....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Mu1VkhuaeYI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Mu1VkhuaeYI</a>

Really is beautiful, so colourful.. :)

Could I have some more top Takemitsu recommendations please? :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

kyjo

  • Guest
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2013, 10:37:32 AM »
Am currently listening to 'A String around autumn', and it's utterly gorgeous. My first listen to a whole piece of Takemitsu I think.....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Mu1VkhuaeYI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Mu1VkhuaeYI</a>

Really is beautiful, so colourful.. :)

Could I have some more top Takemitsu recommendations please? :)

Definitely agree with you about the beauty of that work, Daniel. Some other Takemitsu works I enjoyed (but not quite as much as A string around autumn) include:

A flock descends into the pentagonal garden for orchestra: http://youtu.be/X2JoZ3FR32c
November Steps for orchestra: http://youtu.be/UC_T4_HxTb4
Percussion Concerto From me flows what you call time: http://youtu.be/kWipy3Q6gAI

Happy listening! :)

Offline Pessoa

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 129
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2013, 03:58:51 PM »
The Philips record with Ozawa was my first Takemitsu. For years, the Viola Concerto was my favourite, then Eclipse, for biwa and shakuhachi. Then came other orchestral works, chamber music and guitar. I have 5 of his cds. Those pieces named above are still favourite of mine, but, probably as I went deeper into Japanese traditional music, Eclipse is now my favourite. Today I was listening to a mixture of antique pieces for biwa, shakuhachi, koto shamisen, voice and some percussion. Immediately after that I went to Eclipse and felt it as a continuation, a fresh succesfsul mixture of the old instruments that still can be heard in a kabuki play with the western contemporary set and lovely musical output.

Offline Moonfish

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6262
  • Location: USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Timeless soundscapes...
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2014, 07:29:16 AM »
*bump* 

Any further recommendations for gateways to Takemitsu's compositions?
It seems like Brilliant's reissue of two of the Denon recordings is the way to go?


« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 07:33:52 AM by Moonfish »
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Offline EigenUser

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3328
  • Mahler's 9th - "Deadlifts in the midst of life"
    • Ligeti's Laboratory
  • Location: Northern VA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bartok, Ligeti, Ravel, Gershwin, Debussy, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Feldman, Messiaen, Haydn, Ockeghem, Adès, Mahler, Ohana, Webern, Boulez, Varese, Beethoven, Berg, Scriabin, Tippett, Takemitsu, Vaughan-Williams
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2014, 07:34:33 AM »
*bump* 

Any further recommendations for gateways to Takemitsu's compositions?
I was going to ask this as well. I absolutely love his "Dream/Window". Did you hear that one yet? I posted it in the Feldman thread a few days ago because I thought that it might be appreciated by those who like Feldman. Any Takemitsu fans recommend similar works of his?
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Moonfish

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6262
  • Location: USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Timeless soundscapes...
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2014, 07:40:25 AM »
I was going to ask this as well. I absolutely love his "Dream/Window". Did you hear that one yet? I posted it in the Feldman thread a few days ago because I thought that it might be appreciated by those who like Feldman. Any Takemitsu fans recommend similar works of his?

No, this is unfamiliar territory. I enjoy traditional Japanese music, but this is of course a blend of west and east in a modern template (and VERY different). Just listening to snippets and Spotify at the moment. I will check out Dream/Window! Thanks EigenUser!  :)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Offline EigenUser

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3328
  • Mahler's 9th - "Deadlifts in the midst of life"
    • Ligeti's Laboratory
  • Location: Northern VA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bartok, Ligeti, Ravel, Gershwin, Debussy, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Feldman, Messiaen, Haydn, Ockeghem, Adès, Mahler, Ohana, Webern, Boulez, Varese, Beethoven, Berg, Scriabin, Tippett, Takemitsu, Vaughan-Williams
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2014, 07:43:26 AM »
No, this is unfamiliar territory. I enjoy traditional Japanese music, but this is of course a blend of west and east in a modern template (and VERY different). Just listening to snippets and Spotify at the moment. I will check out Dream/Window! Thanks EigenUser!  :)
No problem. I described it on the Feldman thread as this:
Quote
It's like he took Debussy's "Jeux" (my favorite Debussy piece, I'll be the outlier :) ), poured it through a strainer to remove any melodic themes, and wrote using what was left.
Then again, that's just what it makes me think of.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline bwv 1080

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2072
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2014, 07:43:48 AM »
*bump* 

Any further recommendations for gateways to Takemitsu's compositions?
It seems like Brilliant's reissue of two of the Denon recordings is the way to go?



The Brilliant issue looks interesting, not familiar with many of those works
This is a real bargain if you do MP3s




Takemitsu was one of the most important postwar composers of guitar music


This disc features his works for traditional Japanese instruments, the first track is worth the cost of the whole disk


« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 07:49:49 AM by bwv 1080 »
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum

Offline Moonfish

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6262
  • Location: USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Timeless soundscapes...
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2014, 07:49:16 AM »

This disc features his works for traditional Japanese instruments, the first track is worth the cost of the whole disk


Thanks bwv! I was pondering the Autumn Garden recording. Your recommendation brings me close to the "button"... 8)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Offline bwv 1080

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2072
Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2014, 07:52:36 AM »
Thanks bwv! I was pondering the Autumn Garden recording. Your recommendation brings me close to the "button"... 8)

this one-star Amazon review ahould help get you closer:

Quote
If you're depressed, stay away from this stuff. The "music" delves right to the core and irritates your marrow with its long sinuous lines of decadent atonality. This "music" would serve well as the soundtrack for the Jonestown Massacre or Heaven's Gate Cult as they commit their final act of mass suicide. It is unnerving & unsettling. It's a score that could only have been composed for wristcutters. Sorry, but that's how it touches me.

what a great endorsement (even if misinformed)
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum