Author Topic: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque  (Read 55030 times)

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Offline milk

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #240 on: November 13, 2017, 08:36:59 PM »
Rinaldo Alessandrini recorded a CD of early pieces by Bernardo Pasquini. I know you may think that I'm going mad by mentioning Pasquini, but I assure you that Alessandrini's selection is a music  totally  different from  his later bravura  style. What it shows is a Pasquini who is a bit in the vein of both Frescobaldi and Louis Couperin. I have a strong intuition you will like it.

Have you heard anything by Andrea Gabrieli? (Glen Wilson's is the only recommendable dedicated CD IMO,  similarly for Cavazzoni.)

Alessandrini recorded an anthology called 150 years of Italian Music, or something like that, I don't think you'd regret hearing it.

Sergio Vartolo recorded an anthology CD at Lanvellec called Preludes à la Fugue, with music by the Gabrielis, Trabaci and others. I like everything about it.

A more left field recommendation is Irena de Ruvo's recording of Giovanni Battista Dalla Gostena transcriptions - certainly if you enjoy Gesualdo.

I would need to listen again to Luzzaschi and Willaert to comment with any confidence, there could be interesting things in there. I know I enjoy Messori's Luzzaschi more and more each time I hear it, and performances of Willaert less and less. Trabaci is also someone to explore - but I can't think now . . .
Thanks. Lots to dig through here. Looks like Alessandrini has a few CDs of Italian music surveys. The Pasquini looks tempting.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #241 on: November 14, 2017, 08:27:32 AM »
From this website:
La fonte principale della sua produzione tastieristica si trova in una fonte manoscritta in 4 volumi (conservata in parte a Berlino ed in parte a Londra) redatta dallo stesso compositore fra gli ultimi anni del Seicento ed i primi del Settecento.

Sonate a due cimbali - 1704, Attilio Cemonesi, Alessandro De Marchi, 1992, Symphonia SY91S06

Also it seems that it is the fourteen sonatas for two keyboards which are dated to 1704. I do not think that they represent bravura style, on the contrary I find them to be the most charming of his keyboard works. Note that they only are notated from Pasquini's hand as two basso parts, and that the performers - whatever the recording - have added the rest. So the bravura you think of may stem from the performers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9T20hRzKc

Well Cemonesi'a cd is called "Virtuoso harpsichord music". The way the sonatas are filled with keyboard effects makes me think of Domenico Scarlatti, which is why I think of them as forward looking; the material Alessandrini chose is a bit more expressive I think, more humane.

I've started to listen to some Trabaci, to the Canzone francese quarta from Bk 1 played by Vartolo in Naxos, it's very good music I think.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 08:35:24 AM by Mandryka »
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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #242 on: November 14, 2017, 01:04:53 PM »
Well Cemonesi'a cd is called "Virtuoso harpsichord music". The way the sonatas are filled with keyboard effects makes me think of Domenico Scarlatti, which is why I think of them as forward looking; the material Alessandrini chose is a bit more expressive I think, more humane.

I've started to listen to some Trabaci, to the Canzone francese quarta from Bk 1 played by Vartolo in Naxos, it's very good music I think.

This one;   ??

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8000996--pasquini-virtuoso-music-for-two-harpsichords
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #243 on: November 14, 2017, 01:44:17 PM »
Yes. There's a Pasquini recording by Lydia Maria Blank which I've just ordered, she's very good I think, I've been enjoying her recording of Spanish music a lot.
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Offline milk

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #244 on: November 14, 2017, 11:49:27 PM »
Yes. There's a Pasquini recording by Lydia Maria Blank which I've just ordered, she's very good I think, I've been enjoying her recording of Spanish music a lot.
What about Luca Guglielmi?

Offline king ubu

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #245 on: November 15, 2017, 01:11:42 AM »
Inspired by this thread I just ordered an okay-priced (means: too expensive, but ...) copy of the Tristano Frescobaldi dics ... most curious about it!

Also got the two Storace discs by Francesco Cera and started listening in the meantime ... very good!
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Offline milk

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #246 on: November 15, 2017, 04:08:18 AM »
Inspired by this thread I just ordered an okay-priced (means: too expensive, but ...) copy of the Tristano Frescobaldi dics ... most curious about it!

Also got the two Storace discs by Francesco Cera and started listening in the meantime ... very good!
I think I and others have said this before, but this field should be tackled by more pianists. I love the  Tristano Schlimé. It's fascinating to hear Fresobaldi in this other light. 

Offline Florestan

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #247 on: November 16, 2017, 05:09:49 AM »
the hysterics of romanticism or the puff of galant.

What do you mean by that, in the context of keyboard music? Some examples would be helpful.
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #248 on: November 16, 2017, 08:57:18 AM »
I think I and others have said this before, but this field should be tackled by more pianists. I love the  Tristano Schlimé. It's fascinating to hear Fresobaldi in this other light.

Konstantin Lifschitz recorded a handful of toccatas on his CD with Musical Offering.
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #249 on: November 16, 2017, 01:44:24 PM »


This only arrived today, but it has left a strong impression of three things:

1. The softness and richness and naturalness of the harpsichord sound.

2. Her rich and elegant  ornamention in the suites,

3. Her very gentle way of marking the pulse.

This makes the music sound  freely expressive and fluid, less like it's been built in granite.

I particularly like the way Blank marks the upbeats so delicately.

In the booklet she talks a little about the date of the music, I get the impression from what she says that dates like 1702 are the dates of compilations of manuscripts, rather than the dates of the compositions. She also says that the music is only superficially French (she talks about how there're no sarabandes, for example) but that Pasquini is known to have travelled in France. She says that there is little in common between Frescobaldi's toccatas and Pasquini's (Pasquini's more improvisatory, she says.)   

I'm glad to have this CD.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 01:59:28 PM by Mandryka »
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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #250 on: November 16, 2017, 02:08:38 PM »


This only arrived today, but it has left a strong impression of three things:


Thanks for this review, based on which I shall acquire the CD.
I received Alessandrini's CD to day, but have not had the time to listen to it.
How would you (in short) describe the difference between Alessandrini and Blank?
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Offline milk

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #251 on: November 16, 2017, 05:05:26 PM »
What do you mean by that, in the context of keyboard music? Some examples would be helpful.
This is nothing more than my subjective feelings at the moment. I do listen to romantic music, and earlier post-baroque, regularly. I saw somewhere someone describe romantic music as a first-person narrative, and impressionism as “mood,” or a more removed sense. These are just metaphors though about how I feel about the music. I think Frescobaldi is also more about mood than the ups and downs of a passionate story. I’m sure this is just one way of seeing it and very general. 

Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #252 on: November 16, 2017, 09:46:37 PM »
Thanks for this review, based on which I shall acquire the CD.
I received Alessandrini's CD to day, but have not had the time to listen to it.
How would you (in short) describe the difference between Alessandrini and Blank?

Alessandrini's harpsichord sounds more muscular and, I think, is more closely recorded. His approach is more architectural, more articulated, less fluid and lyrical. And, by comparison with Blank, he marks the pulse more strongly.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 09:51:53 PM by Mandryka »
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #253 on: November 16, 2017, 10:22:31 PM »
What do you mean by that, in the context of keyboard music? Some examples would be helpful.

An example of Italian baroque keyboard music which is full of romantic hysteria and classical puffiness, is the opus 4 sonatas of Azzolino Bernadino della Ciaja. You will love it.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:34:37 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #254 on: November 17, 2017, 02:35:03 AM »
This is nothing more than my subjective feelings at the moment. I do listen to romantic music, and earlier post-baroque, regularly. I saw somewhere someone describe romantic music as a first-person narrative, and impressionism as “mood,” or a more removed sense. These are just metaphors though about how I feel about the music. I think Frescobaldi is also more about mood than the ups and downs of a passionate story. I’m sure this is just one way of seeing it and very general.

Thanks. I'm not sure I can fully agree, at least not with respect to piano music. I think that Kreisleriana or Annees de pelerinage, for instance, are as "mood" and "impressionist" as it gets. Actually, "a first-person narrative" recalls me rather the symphonies of Mahler than any Romantic piano music I can think of right now. As for "hysteria", the first things that come to my mind is the finale of the Appassionata and the screams and screeches of Pierrot Lunaire, neither of which strikes me as particularly romantic / Romantic.

An example of Italian baroque keyboard music which is full of romantic hysteria and classical puffiness, is the opus 4 sonatas of Azzolino Bernadino della Ciaja. You will love it.

Have them, listened to them, don't remember them. I'll revisit asap.

As I said, "hysteria" is probably the last thing that comes to my mind with respect to Romantic piano music; as for "puffiness", it's more an attribute of some Late Romantic orchestral music than anything Classical.

Be it as it may, I don't want to derail the thread. I'll report back on della Ciaja.
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Offline milk

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #255 on: November 17, 2017, 02:46:36 AM »
Konstantin Lifschitz recorded a handful of toccatas on his CD with Musical Offering.
Thanks!!!!!! I just downloaded these. Excellent. This and the Tristano recordings are a great pleasure.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #256 on: November 17, 2017, 08:13:18 AM »


Be it as it may, I don't want to derail the thread. I'll report back on della Ciaja.

I listened to some today, it's OK but less interesting than I'd remembered - intimations of CPE Bach in the strange harmonies and Scarlatti in the keyboard effects, the occasional lyrical quasi-operatic melodies. Not my cup of tea.
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #257 on: November 17, 2017, 08:29:04 AM »
Thanks. I'm not sure I can fully agree, at least not with respect to piano music. I think that Kreisleriana or Annees de pelerinage, for instance, are as "mood" and "impressionist" as it gets. Actually, "a first-person narrative" recalls me rather the symphonies of Mahler than any Romantic piano music I can think of right now. As for "hysteria", the first things that come to my mind is the finale of the Appassionata and the screams and screeches of Pierrot Lunaire, neither of which strikes me as particularly romantic / Romantic.

Pierrot is so drenched in irony and satire that it's bizarre to take "hysteria" away as a primary impression.  Erwartung is probably closer.  Or Kreisleriana, for that matter.

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #258 on: November 17, 2017, 08:36:45 AM »
Pierrot is so drenched in irony and satire that it's bizarre to take "hysteria" away as a primary impression.  Erwartung is probably closer.  Or Kreisleriana, for that matter.

So what’s wrong with someone else that says Pierrot is hysterical if this is the impression that Andrei gets of the music?
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
« Reply #259 on: November 17, 2017, 08:44:36 AM »
So what’s wrong with someone else that says Pierrot is hysterical if this is the impression that Andrei gets of the music?

Nothing.  He's perfectly fine in saying that his impression is such and such.  I don't see the problem in my saying that I think that impression is off-base.

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