Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 24265 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15066
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #560 on: July 07, 2018, 06:13:00 AM »
“We will try to receive it as well as possible but from what we understand it is still a carve-out of the single market,” said the source, describing May’s proposed single market for goods as “a lot of fudge with a cherry on top”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/07/eu-diplomats-theresa-may-brexit-compromise

Yep....  8)

Q
À chacun son goût.

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15066
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #561 on: July 07, 2018, 11:25:46 PM »
On the Brexit blog by Richard North:

Brexit: a dog's breakfast

He seems to assume there will be a hard Brexit with a possible transition period.

Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline Mr. Minnow

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Location: UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #562 on: July 08, 2018, 05:36:14 AM »
On the Brexit blog by Richard North:

Brexit: a dog's breakfast

He seems to assume there will be a hard Brexit with a possible transition period.

Q

He may well be right. If the EU rejects May's proposal - and given the blatant cherry-picking involved I don't see how it could possibly accept it - the narrative will be that we bent over backwards to compromise, while the EU was intransigent and only interested in punishing us. So hey, we did try to get a deal, but the EU wasn't interested. We then presumably head for a hard Brexit unless failure to reach a deal produces a major swing against Brexit in public opinion.

Offline Mr. Minnow

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Location: UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #563 on: July 08, 2018, 04:56:38 PM »
David Davis and two other Brexit ministers have resigned - that's three ministers out of five. Perhaps the Department for Exiting the EU should be renamed the Department for Exiting the Department for Exiting the EU.

When this farce first started there was speculation the EU would set out to make an example of the UK in order to discourage other countries from considering leaving. As it is, there's been no need to - the UK has done that very effectively itself. Comparing the way the EU has handled it with our government's conduct is just embarrassing. It's like a full strength Barcelona playing a pub team whose players don't even understand the rules of the game but are still convinced they're going to win. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 04:58:44 PM by Mr. Minnow »

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15066
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #564 on: July 08, 2018, 09:06:32 PM »
This is shocking.... ???

When after two years the UK govt finally picks a strategy, it starts falling apart....

It seems the pub team, after just standing there in the field, arguing amongst themselves and randomly trying to kick back balls that came in its direction, has decided to head back for the pub!  :D

All the EU now has to do is sit tight and wait for things to unfold. The approach of not rejecting the free market for goods scheme right out of hand and give off mildly positive and encouraging signals, proofs to be a very clever one.

Q

PS Everybody ready for the sequel to this drama, in which Jeremy Corbyn tries to get a à la carte internal market sans competition (= state aid) rules?  ::)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 09:22:47 PM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 10472
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #565 on: July 08, 2018, 10:58:07 PM »
Total shambles.

You couldn't make it up.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 11:07:39 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15066
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #566 on: July 09, 2018, 09:57:23 PM »
Total shambles.

You couldn't make it up.

Indeed. The bizarre course of the Brexit process has exceded my wildest expectations....  ???

But someone needs to do something about it pretty soon, or else all the initial Titanic jokes will become a grim reality!  :(

Q
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 07:52:35 AM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline Christo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3476
  • ... an opening of those magic casements ...
  • Location: Netherlands
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #567 on: July 10, 2018, 04:11:29 AM »
'The Brexiteers — led largely by Mr. Johnson — sold the country a series of lies in the lead up to the June 2016 referendum ... because neither Mr. Johnson nor his fellow leader of the Leave campaign, Michael Gove, intended, wanted or expected to win. Because they were confident that the Leave campaign was a hopeless cause, they were free to make ridiculous claims that they had no expectation of ever having to fulfill.'
www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opinion/boris-johnson-resignation-brexit.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
And of course they're not leaving the sinking ship now in order to protest, let alone to really fight for a 'hard' Brexit, but because they know that any type of Brexit will be a disaster and they want to escape responsibility.

… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 10472
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #568 on: July 10, 2018, 05:26:18 AM »
'The Brexiteers — led largely by Mr. Johnson — sold the country a series of lies in the lead up to the June 2016 referendum ... because neither Mr. Johnson nor his fellow leader of the Leave campaign, Michael Gove, intended, wanted or expected to win. Because they were confident that the Leave campaign was a hopeless cause, they were free to make ridiculous claims that they had no expectation of ever having to fulfill.'
www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opinion/boris-johnson-resignation-brexit.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
And of course they're not leaving the sinking ship now in order to protest, let alone to really fight for a 'hard' Brexit, but because they know that any type of Brexit will be a disaster and they want to escape responsibility.

Yes I agree - my mind recalls this entertaining, though increasingly prophetic, spoof (foul language):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14263
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #569 on: July 10, 2018, 05:44:15 AM »
Not foul enough, I think.

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15066
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #570 on: July 10, 2018, 08:09:06 AM »
Reminds me of the comment my (American) wife made on the night Donald Trump was elected president:

"This is going to be a sh*t show of EPIC proportions...."

Q


PS Is this another case of "be careful what you wish for"?  ::)


EU negotiator Michel Barnier says 80% of Brexit deal is agreed


Is the EU going to agree to any remotely acceptable proposition by the UK govt, just to get rid of the issue?  ::)
I"m afraid that would reflect the mood in many European capitals....

Q
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:01:50 AM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline Alek Hidell

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Currently Listening to:
    Jazz and classical
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #571 on: July 10, 2018, 11:18:14 AM »
Reminds me of the comment my (American) wife made on the night Donald Trump was elected president:

"This going to be a sh*t show of EPIC proportions...."

Q

Yep. It's been most enlightening to read through this thread from here in the U.S. where the Trump clown show heedlessly trudges on (I had not previously read much at all on Brexit and had only the vaguest notions of what's at stake, though from the start I figured it was a grave error) and be struck by how frighteningly similar our political situations are. Reactionaries with a contempt for "experts" and no actual plan or ability to govern, pie-in-the-sky promises that can never be kept (and when they fail to materialize, chalking it up to a failure of nerve), willfully ignorant voters responding to phony populism and nationalist yammering and thinking their vote was simply a "lark" with no real-world consequences, and even Russian meddling ... boy, the Brits have it all too.
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." - Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4928
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #572 on: July 10, 2018, 12:06:03 PM »
Europe will see both sides of Trump in the coming days. He’ll roar and threaten in Brussels, then coo and meow in Moscow.

Offline Mr. Minnow

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Location: UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #573 on: July 10, 2018, 03:08:31 PM »
Reminds me of the comment my (American) wife made on the night Donald Trump was elected president:

"This is going to be a sh*t show of EPIC proportions...."

Q


PS Is this another case of "be careful what you wish for"?  ::)


EU negotiator Michel Barnier says 80% of Brexit deal is agreed


Is the EU going to agree to any remotely acceptable proposition by the UK govt, just to get rid of the issue?  ::)
I"m afraid that would reflect the mood in many European capitals....

Q

I think "remotely acceptable" are the key words there. If the EU doesn't compromise on cherry-picking the four freedoms for member states, I can't see why they would do so for a third country. Reports in the UK media over the last few days have stated that EU sources have said that they don't want to be seen to immediately shoot down the Chequers position for fear of weakening May even further and making an already difficult situation even worse. So the public tone is more positive and the EU may try to move a bit where it can. But after Barnier's recent remarks about the fundamental importance of the single market I cannot imagine they are going to compromise on that, in which case either May has to give more ground or we get no deal.

Offline Mr. Minnow

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Location: UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #574 on: July 10, 2018, 03:28:53 PM »
Yep. It's been most enlightening to read through this thread from here in the U.S. where the Trump clown show heedlessly trudges on (I had not previously read much at all on Brexit and had only the vaguest notions of what's at stake, though from the start I figured it was a grave error) and be struck by how frighteningly similar our political situations are.

It is indeed uncanny, but at least you have a chance to vote Trump out. How we get out of the Brexit mess I have no idea.

Quote
Reactionaries with a contempt for "experts" and no actual plan or ability to govern

The "no actual plan" part is especially staggering, because Brexit is the biggest political upheaval in the UK in living memory and many of the leading Brexiters have been campaigning for Brexit for years - decades in some cases. And yet, despite that they have never bothered to produce a rigorous, coherent, thoroughly researched plan explaining exactly what they want to achieve and how they think they can get there. They're great at meaningless slogans like "take back control" and crying betrayal at the drop of a hat. But ask them for a detailed plan and all you get is tumbleweed and the sound of crickets. Anyone who asks them to address the details and enormous problems of Brexit is then dismissed as a treacherous saboteur, one of those experts that can't be trusted, or both.

Quote
pie-in-the-sky promises that can never be kept (and when they fail to materialize, chalking it up to a failure of nerve)

Not only a failure of nerve, but also the result of fifth column Remainers sabotaging their precious Brexit. And yes, terms like "fifth column" and "saboteurs" are the sort of language in which this "debate" is conducted.
 
Quote
willfully ignorant voters responding to phony populism and nationalist yammering

To be fair, some leave voters voted leave out of a desperation to be heard, although the extent of that has been overplayed. There were plenty of more affluent voters who had no such excuse and still swallowed the bullshit.

Quote
and thinking their vote was simply a "lark" with no real-world consequences, and even Russian meddling ... boy, the Brits have it all too.

Indeed we do. It can't end well, and it wouldn't surprise me if it leads to the break-up of the UK, to say nothing of the economic impact.