Author Topic: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.  (Read 7816 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2016, 08:19:00 AM »


More than Heinrich Isaac, it's Alexander Agricola who seems to me to have things in common with Jacob Obrecht, at least in the late mass (M. In myne zyn)  on this CD by Dirk Snellings/ Capilla Flamenca. The mass is huge, the imitation, variation and polyphony sound pretty complex, and although I can't prove it, I feel it has the same feeling of unity as the late Obrecht masses. And the same feeling of an uncompromising genius mind at work.

For some reason, Snellings interleaves viol music with the mass movements.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2018, 12:29:52 PM »



Obrecht's music is normally very harmonically interesting - when the different voices interact in the canons you get nice expressive harmonies. My impression is that this aspect is a bit lost in this performance of Missa Grecorum, because it's too blended, blended in a way which makes more consonance than there should be! It's also articulated in a rather fluid way, and I'm not so sure that's the best way to bring out the music's tension and drama.  Theres some sweet music in there, but it leaves me a bit unsatisfied at the moment. I've read that the mass comes from the same period as Missa Rosa Playsante, and Sound and Fury's recording of that has all the qualities which Brabant Ensemble's Missa Grecorum doesn't have. Maybe it has redeeming features, there are certainly some gorgeous moments - the opening kyrie is lovely, for example. I need to live with it a bit longer but I thought I'd make this post in case anyone else has tried it.

There seem to be more singers than necessary to me, and there's no real sense of any of them as individuals.

I haven't heard the motets yet.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 12:39:44 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2018, 12:45:34 PM »


I had a listen to Schmelzer's Si Dedero (Agricola) last week. It's horrible. He's put in  some instrumental music which nearly drowns out the voices!
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kishnevi

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Re: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2018, 07:30:19 PM »



Obrecht's music is normally very harmonically interesting - when the different voices interact in the canons you get nice expressive harmonies. My impression is that this aspect is a bit lost in this performance of Missa Grecorum, because it's too blended, blended in a way which makes more consonance than there should be! It's also articulated in a rather fluid way, and I'm not so sure that's the best way to bring out the music's tension and drama.  Theres some sweet music in there, but it leaves me a bit unsatisfied at the moment. I've read that the mass comes from the same period as Missa Rosa Playsante, and Sound and Fury's recording of that has all the qualities which Brabant Ensemble's Missa Grecorum doesn't have. Maybe it has redeeming features, there are certainly some gorgeous moments - the opening kyrie is lovely, for example. I need to live with it a bit longer but I thought I'd make this post in case anyone else has tried it.

There seem to be more singers than necessary to me, and there's no real sense of any of them as individuals.

I haven't heard the motets yet.

The copy I ordered is on its way to me.  I'll see if my ears concur with yours when it arrives.

kishnevi

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Re: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2018, 07:46:02 PM »



Obrecht's music is normally very harmonically interesting - when the different voices interact in the canons you get nice expressive harmonies. My impression is that this aspect is a bit lost in this performance of Missa Grecorum, because it's too blended, blended in a way which makes more consonance than there should be! It's also articulated in a rather fluid way, and I'm not so sure that's the best way to bring out the music's tension and drama.  Theres some sweet music in there, but it leaves me a bit unsatisfied at the moment. I've read that the mass comes from the same period as Missa Rosa Playsante, and Sound and Fury's recording of that has all the qualities which Brabant Ensemble's Missa Grecorum doesn't have. Maybe it has redeeming features, there are certainly some gorgeous moments - the opening kyrie is lovely, for example. I need to live with it a bit longer but I thought I'd make this post in case anyone else has tried it.

There seem to be more singers than necessary to me, and there's no real sense of any of them as individuals.

I haven't heard the motets yet.

Now giving this CD a second listen.

I think you are right about the blending and fluidity of articulation.

But I think I'm more positive about it, meaning I like the results--or at least like it more than your post suggests you did. But the performance style you thought you heard I also heard.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2018, 01:02:40 AM »
Now giving this CD a second listen.

I think you are right about the blending and fluidity of articulation.

But I think I'm more positive about it, meaning I like the results--or at least like it more than your post suggests you did. But the performance style you thought you heard I also heard.

Yes and revisiting this this week I feel much more positive about what they do - I'm glad to have it. Some of the motets especially are impressive. In the past I was focussing too much on the mass. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 01:22:36 AM by Mandryka »
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