Author Topic: Organ masses  (Read 5150 times)

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Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: Organ masses: Guilmant and Vierne
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2016, 04:27:34 PM »
For your consideration:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BddYhpb2WL0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BddYhpb2WL0</a>

And for Louis Vierne, one organ is not enough!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/-zjlRHP0tjk" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/-zjlRHP0tjk</a>

Thank you. Very nice. Any recommended recordings?
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2016, 04:36:51 PM »
Any specific recordings you would recommend? I'd be especially interested in a version with organ only.

Strictly speaking, the Durufle is not an organ mass in the sense of mass with organ alternatim, or is it?

The original scoring was for choir and orchestra, but the most common version is not a reduction but an actual rewriting of the work for organ and choir.   And yes, the organ plays throughout.  The best version in my opinion is the Philip Ledger with Janet Baker:



It is coupled with the Faure Requiem.

Offline Maciek

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2016, 08:28:55 AM »
Thanks. The only recording I have is of the orchestra version (on HM) and it was difficult to figure out which of the others were of the organ version.

Offline Cato

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Re: Organ masses: Guilmant and Vierne
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2016, 12:39:53 PM »
For your consideration:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BddYhpb2WL0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BddYhpb2WL0</a>

And for Louis Vierne, one organ is not enough!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/-zjlRHP0tjk" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/-zjlRHP0tjk</a>

Thank you. Very nice. Any recommended recordings?

Only one to choose from for the Guilmant:



For the Vierne, nothing right now is very cheap, but this can be downloaded at Amazon for a reasonable price:

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2017, 09:38:50 AM »


Does anyone know what this is exactly? I just stumbled across it on spotify, it's rather pleasant.

I knew Freddy Eichelberger because he's the only person who I can bear to listen to in Louis Marchand's organ music. I suspect he's a very fine musician indeed. The serpent, played by Michel Godard, is also very attractive on this recording. I wonder if he and Eichelberger are improvising.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 09:43:13 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2017, 10:32:03 AM »


Does anyone know what this is exactly? I just stumbled across it on spotify, it's rather pleasant.

I knew Freddy Eichelberger because he's the only person who I can bear to listen to in Louis Marchand's organ music. I suspect he's a very fine musician indeed. The serpent, played by Michel Godard, is also very attractive on this recording. I wonder if he and Eichelberger are improvising.

The works seem to be anonymous.

Enticing. I am going to order the CD.

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2017, 11:26:22 AM »
The works seem to be anonymous.

Enticing. I am going to order the CD.

I don't think you'll regret it. I just listened to some of Eichelberger's Sweelinck on NM, there's a Fantasia he makes sound like something by Cabanilles, which in itself is interesting I think.

Here's another one I think you will like with Freddy Eichelberger.




Quote
L’enfer et le paradis dans l’univers musical européen autour des années 1600, voilà ce que nous propose de vivre l’ensemble Les Harpies : des œuvres « savantes », écrites, travaillées – Palestrina, Erbach, Attaingant, Gervaise… –, alternent avec des pièces anonymes d’inspiration plus populaire et improvisées. On entendra en particulier l’orgue Renaissance de Saint-Savin-en-Lavedan, initialement construit en 1557, et donc l’un des plus anciens de France. Certes, il fut remanié en 1618, abandonné sous la Révolution et pillé d’une grande partie de sa tuyauterie, puis laissé à l’état de ruines en 1861. L’instrument sera restauré en 1995-1996 ; d’origine, subsistaient le buffet, les sommiers, les faux sommiers, les registres « à l’italienne », deux soufflets (que l’on entendra souffler, car l’organiste a décidé de ne pas utiliser la soufflerie électrique !), des morceaux de clavier, de rares fragments de tuyaux, des traces d’étiquettes de registres et de passage de mécanique, des diamètres de trous et inscriptions de notes. La restauration, utilisant comme modèle des instruments similaires, aura restitué un instrument dont tout porte à croire qu’il sonnait ainsi voici presque un demi-millénaire. Les pièces d’inspiration populaire sont jouées à la cornemuse, au cistre, au violon, au colachon (une sorte de luth au long manche, venu d’Italie du Sud) et au régale – un petit orgue portatif. Un véritable voyage dans le temps… © SM/Qobuz
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 11:28:53 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2017, 12:07:15 PM »

Here's another one I think you will like with Freddy Eichelberger.



Aha, also Pierre Gallon. He was rather good in the Attaignant recording. Thanks for the tip.
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Offline DaveF

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2017, 01:44:40 PM »


Does anyone know what this is exactly? I just stumbled across it on spotify, it's rather pleasant.

Presto Classical's site describes it as A reconstruction of the ordinary practice of High Mass in the seventeenth century.  I'm most intrigued by La Saint-Michel - I speak French reasonably well, but never suspected that it made the archangel feminine - saint, Ange and, obviously, Michel, are all masculine.  Is it something to do with it being a feast (La fête), perhaps?
"Just because I like something, it doesn't mean it's any good."

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2017, 10:58:06 PM »
Presto Classical's site describes it as A reconstruction of the ordinary practice of High Mass in the seventeenth century.  I'm most intrigued by La Saint-Michel - I speak French reasonably well, but never suspected that it made the archangel feminine - saint, Ange and, obviously, Michel, are all masculine.  Is it something to do with it being a feast (La fête), perhaps?

Yes, La Saint Michel is the feast of St Michael.

(The mood of the music for the elevation of the host is so different in French music compared with Italian music.)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 11:48:15 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2017, 11:03:32 AM »


The main part of this recording is the Missa Paschalis by Heinrich Isaac. Cantus Modalis are directed by Rebecca Stewart, and she has them sing in the intimate way she pioneered in her recordings with Cappella Pratensis. The sound the singers make is small, inexplosive. The impression they give me is of devotion, this isn't a performance really. We're eavesdropping on something.

The mass itself is played with organ in alternatim, and it's one of the best I've heard at giving a feeling of rapport between voice and instrument. There's a duet between organ and voice, a graduale, I don't know where the music comes from, it's magic.


In addition to the Isaac mass, there are pieces by Dufay and Josquin, which greatly add to the variety - the emotional variety in fact - of the recital. There is also some melismatic gregorian chant, very ornamental, sung by women interestingly.

Anyway this was a challenging recording at first because the style is so confidential and prayerful, it's still sounds strange (this is early music after all! It should sound strange!) but now I love it to bits, it's like a privilege to hear it, to be allowed to peek in on the event (I know that's soppy but . . .)
 
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2017, 06:34:02 AM »


I don't believe that Louis Marchand intended his music to be performed with plainchant in alternatim, I don't think that was the practice at Versailles, and I believe that  presenting it like this is an imaginative leap on the part of Jean-Yves Haymoz and Bernard Coudurier. Somehow the restraint of the religious singing enhances (in my book) Marchand's music by making it too seem restrained and . . . spiritual even. As if the singers exude a nimbus which radiates onto the instrumental music. Coudurier sounds like he's in his element at St Maximin, he uses the recording as an opportunity to show the world the resources of the instrument.

This was a recording I couldn't enjoy when I listened to it through Spotify. Its qualities only became apparent when I heard it in its full lossless glory. Sound quality matters.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 06:38:23 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 04:06:45 AM »


The first thing to say is that this recording of the Grigny mass from David Ponsford at Sarlat is well worth hearing if only for the chant accompanied by serpent. As far as the style of play goes, he reminds me of Gillian Weir's Roberday fugues: slow and steady, with great nobility and clarity, and no great sense of ecstasy or rapture.

What a magnificent organ the machine at Sarlat is!

 I was put on to it by this review by van Veen.

http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/NimbusAlliance_NI6342.html

By the way he comments that vibrato wouldn't have been used by chant singers in 17th century France. Is that right? I've never seen this discussed.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:15:40 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Cato

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 04:24:37 AM »


The first thing to say is that this recording of the Grigny mass from David Ponsford at Sarlat is well worth hearing if only for the chant accompanied by serpent. As far as the style of play goes, he reminds me of Gillian Weir's Roberday fugues: slow and steady, with great nobility and clarity, and no great sense of ecstasy or rapture.

What a magnificent organ the machine at Sarlat is!

 I was put on to it by this review by van Veen.

http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/NimbusAlliance_NI6342.html

By the way he comments that vibrato wouldn't have been used by chant singers in 17th century France. Is that right? I've never seen this discussed.

Greetings and many thanks for the information above!

As far as vibrato is concerned, given the strictures of the Church on unnecessary "display," I would think that his comment is correct.  I have read that the "Cathedral style" of singing was supposed to mesh with the organ stops, e.g. the flute stop, and be devoid of "display" or overt emotion.
COWBOY (sitting down to a poker game for the first time): "Is this a game of chance?!"

- W. C. FIELDS  (as Cuthbert Twillie): "Uhh, not the way I play it, no." in  My Little Chickadee.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 04:27:15 AM »
Greetings and many thanks for the information above!

As far as vibrato is concerned, given the strictures of the Church on unnecessary "display," I would think that his comment is correct.  I have read that the "Cathedral style" of singing was supposed to mesh with the organ stops, e.g. the flute stop, and be devoid of "display" or overt emotion.

Ah I've never heard this before. Was the organ supposed to play in an emotionally flat way too?
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 04:29:36 AM »


The first thing to say is that this recording of the Grigny mass from David Ponsford at Sarlat is well worth hearing if only for the chant accompanied by serpent. As far as the style of play goes, he reminds me of Gillian Weir's Roberday fugues: slow and steady, with great nobility and clarity, and no great sense of ecstasy or rapture.

What a magnificent organ the machine at Sarlat is!

 I was put on to it by this review by van Veen.

http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/NimbusAlliance_NI6342.html

By the way he comments that vibrato wouldn't have been used by chant singers in 17th century France. Is that right? I've never seen this discussed.

Many thanks for posting about this recording (and series of French organ music).  I found most of the volumes on Amazon Music and will be listening to them all.  This Grigny mass is a composer and work I have not known of prior to your post, and am finding it very enjoyable so far.

The issue of vibrato used in chant I think is a more complex question than simply yea or nay.  Mary Berry has written quite a bit on this subject and has very specific and informed views, but her repertory may predate the 17th century, I don't know.  My understanding is that it was not used except for expressive purposes at cadences and other points here and there but not throughout.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:55:25 AM by San Antone »

Offline Cato

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2018, 04:54:22 AM »
Ah I've never heard this before. Was the organ supposed to play in an emotionally flat way too?

 ;) 


 As far as the style of play goes, he reminds me of Gillian Weir's Roberday fugues: slow and steady, with great nobility and clarity, and no great sense of ecstasy or rapture.


That could be a clue!
COWBOY (sitting down to a poker game for the first time): "Is this a game of chance?!"

- W. C. FIELDS  (as Cuthbert Twillie): "Uhh, not the way I play it, no." in  My Little Chickadee.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Organ masses
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2018, 06:12:39 AM »
  This Grigny mass is a composer and work I have not known of prior to your post, and am finding it very enjoyable so far.



That's great!

Looking back in what I wrote, it's probably unfair to say that Posford has "and no great sense of ecstasy or rapture", and I regret writing it a bit. But it is true that he has no great sense of ecstasy or rapture compared with Marie Claire Alain on the same organ and in the same music  ;)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:23:33 AM by Mandryka »
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