Author Topic: Johann Jakob Froberger  (Read 7588 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2221
  • Location: usa
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2017, 03:43:55 PM »
For a postmodern approach try Jane Chapman; for Froberger Empfindsamer style try Johannes Maria Bogner; for a galant Froberger try Anne Marie Dragosits. There's also Glen Wilson to think about, who just may be the best of the lot.
NOW you’re just trying to bankrupt me! And I’ve a baby on the way!

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2221
  • Location: usa
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2017, 05:11:43 PM »
For a postmodern approach try Jane Chapman; for Froberger Empfindsamer style try Johannes Maria Bogner; for a galant Froberger try Anne Marie Dragosits. There's also Glen Wilson to think about, who just may be the best of the lot.
why do you think Wilson I’d best?

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2017, 08:04:03 PM »
why do you think Wilson I’d best?

Because of the drama.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline JCBuckley

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: Brighton, UK
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2017, 01:54:09 AM »
Anyone have a view on Alina Rotaru's Froberger?

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2221
  • Location: usa
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2017, 02:42:48 AM »
Anyone have a view on Alina Rotaru's Froberger?
I'm not sure how to characterize it, but I think it's good. Maybe dramatic...highly spirited and intense...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 02:59:40 AM by milk »

Offline JCBuckley

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: Brighton, UK
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2017, 05:55:38 AM »
Thank you. I know at least one reviewer had some misgivings about the Ruckers instrument that she used for the recording, but the excerpt that I've heard sounded wonderful, I thought. Dramatic, as you say.

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2221
  • Location: usa
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2017, 07:07:26 PM »
Egarr's Auff Die Maÿerin is splendid on organ. Very dreamy and soft like clouds.

Offline calyptorhynchus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 663
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2018, 10:46:23 PM »
I've been listening to the Rémy CPO disks of Suites. My first hearing of Froberger. Love them.

Do you think the Brilliant box is for me?

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2018, 11:25:21 PM »


Do you think the Brilliant box is for me?

Go on!  Treat yourself. It's a competent and complete edition, so what's not to like?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

The One

  • Guest
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2018, 11:32:37 PM »
I've been listening to the Rémy CPO disks of Suites. My first hearing of Froberger. Love them.

Do you think the Brilliant box is for me?
Get these three plus Rampe as a bonus and you are all set




Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2018, 01:43:20 PM »


This CD from Parlement de Musique is a real revelation for the suite by Michael Bulyovsky, who proves himself to be a sensational Neo-Frobergerian, I'd never heard of him before and I'd be very keen to hear more of his music. I'm also glad to meet the suite by Johann Gumprecht, who I'd also never come across before, and whose simple melodic music is not at all unattractive.

Anne Zilberajch shows herself more than able to play the Froberger suites, her performances are poised and graceful and a great joy to hear.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 01:50:37 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6579
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2018, 02:39:56 PM »

This CD from Parlement de Musique is a real revelation for the suite by Michael Bulyovsky, who proves himself to be a sensational Neo-Frobergerian, I'd never heard of him before and I'd be very keen to hear more of his music. I'm also glad to meet the suite by Johann Gumprecht, who I'd also never come across before, and whose simple melodic music is not at all unattractive.

Anne Zilberajch shows herself more than able to play the Froberger suites, her performances are poised and graceful and a great joy to hear.

I am afraid, that this suite in b flat minor is the only existing work by Michael Bulyovsky. It is contained in a manuscript assumed to be written by him. There are in the manuscript several suites by Froberger and a few suites by others, among them his own suite. He lived at a time, where meantone tuning was still prevalent, so b flat minor must be considered rather audacious. 

You can see the manuscript on the IMSLP home page:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Composers#fcfrom:Bu
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline calyptorhynchus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 663
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2018, 12:38:29 PM »
The big box arrived recently I have begun to listen to it. Delighted on to hear the 'usignuoli' (Nightingale) stop used on track 3 of disk 1 (Toccata in G FbWV103).

 :D

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2018, 12:13:18 PM »
The big box arrived recently I have begun to listen to it. Delighted on to hear the 'usignuoli' (Nightingale) stop used on track 3 of disk 1 (Toccata in G FbWV103).

 :D

Daniel Boccaccio and Jeremy Joseph also recorded this on an organ, both fundamentally different from Stella, less colourful, much more serious and noble. Joseph uses a very nice organ

« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 12:25:25 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Online HIPster

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2598
  • HIPster
  • Location: Zimmermann's Cafe
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach and Beyond
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2018, 11:42:43 AM »


This CD from Parlement de Musique is a real revelation for the suite by Michael Bulyovsky, who proves himself to be a sensational Neo-Frobergerian, I'd never heard of him before and I'd be very keen to hear more of his music. I'm also glad to meet the suite by Johann Gumprecht, who I'd also never come across before, and whose simple melodic music is not at all unattractive.

Anne Zilberajch shows herself more than able to play the Froberger suites, her performances are poised and graceful and a great joy to hear.

Anyone know of a source for a reasonably priced copy of this disc?

Looks very fine!

Thanks.  :)

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2018, 01:58:15 PM »
That CD demonstrates conclusively the superiority of the harpsichord over the violin. The violin sonatas are utterly trivial.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 02:03:34 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2018, 11:00:42 PM »
I've been listening to recordings of FbWV 617, a late suite in F major, I think it's one of Froberger's major masterpieces. The two outer movements, an allemande and a sarabande, are fabulous. So far I've managed to find Wilson, Rampe, Stella, Asperen, Egarr, Baiano and Claudio Colombo. Are there any more?

All of them seem good to me, apart from Stella and Colombo.

Stella's approach is very much about top line cantabile, and he relegates all the other voices to the background. This is combined with tempos which are on the slow side. I find my mind wondering in the allemande.  His style in the wonderful sarabande, where he uses a lute stop throughout, and adopts a lumbering pulse and tempo, sounds goofy to me, and emotionally shallow.

Colombo's tasteful modesty is endearing, but his approach is naive and dutiful. In French you'd say he's "bon enfant" and I did indeed feel like I was listening to a kid run through the music after hours and hours of practice. Nevertheless, hats off to him for having a go on piano!

 I like Wilson very much, for the drama, the inner life, and the range of darker emotions expressed.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 12:56:05 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 14867
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2018, 12:53:52 AM »

All of them seem good to me, apart from Stella and Columbo.

Stella's approach is very much about top line cantabile, and he relegates all the other voices to the background. This is combined with tempos which are on the slow side. I find my mind wondering in the allemande.  His style in the wonderful sarabande, where he uses a lute stop throughout, and adopts a lumbering pulse and tempo, sounds goofy to me, and emotionally shallow.

I absolutely agree with you. All in all, I found Stella's complete set a mixed bag. He simply doesn't "get" Froberger's idiom in the harpsichord works. Aimless and one dimensional IMO. The more Italian oriented (Frescobaldi) organ works however, are mostly very well done in spirited and joyful performances. Definitely a lighter touch in comparison to Van Asperen.

Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9195
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2018, 04:16:48 AM »
I went on to listen to the suite that comes before, the G major FbWV 616, and Asperen has to be heard to be believed. It's in the first of his Froberger CDs, which he's subtitled "the programmatic suites" and he gives a title to the allemande - repraesentans monticidium Frobergii. I found this note online here

https://sscm-jscm.org/v13/no1/schulenberg.html#_edn78

Quote
"sur le subject d’un chemin montaigneux” in SA, is described in Dl as “repraesentans monticidium”—possibly an avalanche (“Bergsturz,” in Rasch and Dirksen, “Eine neue Quelle,” 143), or perhaps merely a “tumble down the hill” (“Sturz vom Berg,” in Bob van Asperen, “Neue Erkenntnisse über die ‘Allemande, faite en passant le Rhin’ (Theil 1),” Concerto 191 (March 2004): 26).

No one else plays it as dramatically as Asperen that I've found. Tumble down a hill is right, and I'd love to see a translation of Asperen's paper.  Not Egarr, Stella, Wilson, Baiano or Klosiewicz are as representational, so I guess it's disputed that its programmatic (I haven't read all that article yet.) Klosiewicz is rather good in his way. 

Anyway it does look as though van Asperen has made a special study of the representational music so I'm going to have to explore what he has to say about them, both in performance and in writing.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 04:30:17 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline calyptorhynchus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 663
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
Re: Johann Jakob Froberger
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2018, 11:43:05 PM »
Obviously I'm a novice with Frogberger, but what others are complaining about in Stella's interpretation is exactly what I like. I like the slowness and the mysticism, because it reminds me of contemporary lute music by the likes of the Gaultiers and Gallot &c

I will listen to the reinterpretations in due course, of course. :D