Topic: kinda new, kinda not, kinda recovering - looking for recommendations

[Dakidd2112]

Hiya folks...

I'm a fifty-ish year old guy who has always been primarily a rock/pop fan. To me, "good music" pretty much means what's called "Classic Rock" these days, though personally I prefer to be a bit more specific and say "Hard Classic Rock". So what do I listen to? Lots of stuff - Rush, Boston, Bob Seger, AC/DC, The Cars, Jethro Tull, Steely Dan, Aerosmith, Pink Floyd (Love me some Wall and Dark Side of the Moon in particular) a sprinkle of <looks around guiltily>disco<blush>, Blondie, Jackson Browne, Fleetwood Mac (mostly after 1974 - their earlier stuff mostly puts me off) Billy Joel, Warren Zevon, The Moody Blues, Bubblegum/glam rock like most Sweet or Nick Gilder's "City Nights" album, even Abba, The Bay City Rollers, Frank Zappa and Kiss, fergawdsake! I like to say my musical tastes are about 50 miles wide - and maybe a whole 3 inches deep! (Which happens to also be my description of the so-called "Jack" radio format) Heck I even like some country - Johnny Cash and Marty Robbins style, as well as some of the newer stuff (but *ABSOLUTELY NOT* the current crop of "Boy, I'm so proud I'm an unemployed alcoholic redneck moron with a jacked up truck so hey baby, let's go get stupid-drunk and f***" stuff) and can recognize a few classical pieces - Bach's Jesu, and Pachelbel's Canon in D to name the ones that come to mind first. Basically, I could go on listing stuff for hours and still not hit a fraction of the stuff I consider fit to listen to. But there will be precious little "classical" on that list. About the only thing I absolutely won't tolerate is rap, most especially not the "I'm the baddest nigga on dis-here block so gitcher ho' @$$ in here and suck my c*** fo' I bust a cap in yo @$$, b****!" style garbage.

So here's my thing: 
During my "growing up years", mom pretty well killed classical music for me. I don't mean she "just" killed it, I'm talking about a brutal, bloody hatchet murder, with a chainsaw decapitation followed by a bullet in the head and chopping the corpse to pieces with a rusty shovel blade kind of killing. For the longest time, if she was in the house, it was classical or nothing. PERIOD. I got so sick and tired to death of hearing classical music I couldn't stand it. So for the past 30 years or so, I've either ignored, or actively avoided it.

Until this morning...

A friend of mine emailed me a 90-ish meg MP3 file today. A file bearing the unbelievably edifying name "Something_for_you_to_check_out.MP3" "Uh-oh", thinks I - Considering who sent this, it's either going to be HIDEOUSLY awful, or it's gonna be absolutely excellent. I know from experience that this guy has no "in the middle" setting. Not being a big fan of the "pig in a poke" concept, even when it's a reasonably trusted friend handing me the poke, I of course fired up a hex editor and looked inside it to see if there was anything in there that would tell me what I was about to get hit with. No tags, but it looks like valid MP3 data, so at least it's probably not going to eat my computer if I open it up... "OK, grow some guts", I sez to myself. Shoveled it into iTunes and hit play.  Holy crapola! I recognize this! It's one of my favorite things from the growing up years - Perhaps the only classical music I could stand during that time period! A copy of Walter - er, 'scuse me, he's now "Wendy" - Carlos' Switched-On Bach! Never mind the "novelty album" aspect - I always liked the "Sinfonia to Cantata", and Air on a G String has always been - well... Soothing.

So I start it playing in the background, and each track is nice. Some nicer than others, but overall, it's nice background noise - Unlike "my kind of music", I don't need to "think about it" to enjoy it. I don't need to "pay attention", it's just good as I go about my doings. Then it runs out. Augh!

All of this blabbing has a point behind it... Hang on, I'm getting close, I promise!

I'm not looking to become an expert on classical music. I hate the stuff, remember? I don't want to hear about techniques, or history, or anything academic about it. I don't care why composer X is good, bad, or indifferent. I could care less if he (or she) was gay, straight, or liked getting it on with sheep. If he was religious, good for him - I don't want to hear about it, and if his music "preaches", I don't want to hear it at all. But if it's good, that's fine.  I don't care what a composer's politics were, and just because he's famous, it won't necessarily mean he's any good. Likewise, I doubt that being obscure means he's bad. What I'm hoping to hear from you folks is your suggestions, based on what I've listed as "this is the kind of music I like", for classical stuff that I probably won't run away screaming in terror/revulsion from.

I *DON'T* want tinkly, plinky chamber music - A running exchange in our house was Mom saying "Chopin tinkles", and me responding "yeah, he pisses me off, too." (meant seriously by me, though mom thought it was meant to be funny) I'm looking for stuff to listen to that's good. How to define "good", though... Not prissy stuff. Something with some "thunder" would likely be good (which puzzles me, since there's no thunder in Bach - at least, not that I can recall!)

So with what I've had to say, where would *YOU* point me?

Let me know, eh?

Thanks! And thanks for wading through my blather!



 

[jochanaan]

Welcome, or welcome back!

Switched-On Bach was my own springboard into the rich waters of "classical" music, these many decades ago.  Since you already like that, why not find the originals from which Wendy drew his/her material?  The Orchestral Suite #3 from which the "Air on a G String" comes is lots of fun, as are the Brandenburg Concertos.  And if it's thunder you want to summon, by all means summon Bach's organ music.  Plenty of thunder there even for a classic rock fan!  (Marie-Claire Alain is one of the acknowledged masters of this field.  I love the simple clarity of her organ playing.)

If you are feeling adventurous, since you like Zappa, try the music of Zappa's favorite composer, Edgard Varese.  I warn you, it's nothing like anything you've ever heard before!

And unless your mother's hatchet job included Beethoven, there's enough thunder there to satisfy a metal fan.  No matter how many times I hear the legendary Fifth Symphony's opening notes, I feel a charge of joy at them.

That's enough to go on for now, although those composers are doorways to much, much more great music.

[k a rl h e nn i ng]

Switched-On Bach was my own springboard into the rich waters of "classical" music, these many decades ago.

Likewise, or rather, in my case one of the springboards was The Well-Tempered Synthesizer.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[DaveF]

Hello Dakidd,

Very interesting post, and I could recommend a great deal, but to go straight for the "thunder" element that you were looking for, here are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97HvdYjOYrY
Bartók's 1st piano concerto, and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MflMrWNeB8A
Keqrops, by Iannis Xenakis, also basically a piano concerto.  Interestingly, both composers were born in what is now Romania, although one was Hungarian and the other Greek.  I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Edit - inserting Flash never seems to work for me  , so I've put the links in instead.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Liszt's orchestral tone poem Les Preludes, although the piece only "thunders" at the bookends. Nothing a little FF won't fix.

[Dakidd2112]

Welcome, or welcome back!

Switched-On Bach was my own springboard into the rich waters of "classical" music, these many decades ago.  Since you already like that, why not find the originals from which Wendy drew his/her material?  The Orchestral Suite #3 from which the "Air on a G String" comes is lots of fun

<Eyebrow rises ala Mr. Spock>
Uh... This tends to indicate that I have no clue what the "real" titles of the tunes on S-oB tunes might be... Ferinstance, I know track 1 as "Sinfonia to Cantata" - If I go looking for the "real" version, what is it that I'll be looking for? (as that's one of my favorite pieces from that album)

Will look for the orchestral suite #3. What about track 4 - which I only know as "Two Part Invention in B-Flat Major"? (which, for whatever bizarre reason, has always made me think of an old, but good, Disney short - The one with the windmill and the storm - whose title I can't recall. It also makes me think of a... Well, a conversation, even though there's no speech involved - "Call and response", I think the Jazz types would call it.)
[/quote]

, as are the Brandenburg Concertos.  And if it's thunder you want to summon, by all means summon Bach's organ music.  Plenty of thunder there even for a classic rock fan!  (Marie-Claire Alain is one of the acknowledged masters of this field.  I love the simple clarity of her organ playing.)

That might be something of a difficulty - My near-total ignorance (willful or otherwise) means I wouldn't know "Bach's organ music" unless someone introduced it in proper "Hey, Dakidd! Meet Mr. Bach's organ music - organ music, meet Dakidd" form, if ya follow me. I *THINK* Jesu probably fits on that list, but beyond that, well, frankly, I wouldn't know *ANY* composer's "Type X music" from his "Type Y music" unless it's spelled out like "so and so's Piano Concerto number 1492" or "Ground Round for piccolo schleptet and a wind-breaker, opus $1.98/pound". (Yes, I've brushed - very lightly - up against a certain Mr. Schickele and his research on JSB's obscure relative PDQ. I *THINK* I escaped without getting  any on me - or at least, not enough to leave a stain... )
 

If you are feeling adventurous, since you like Zappa, try the music of Zappa's favorite composer, Edgard Varese.  I warn you, it's nothing like anything you've ever heard before!

Should I cringe in advance, or... ? Frank was a strange, strange unit. But sometimes behind the strange, something very special can be seen.

And unless your mother's hatchet job included Beethoven, there's enough thunder there to satisfy a metal fan.  No matter how many times I hear the legendary Fifth Symphony's opening notes, I feel a charge of joy at them.

That's enough to go on for now, although those composers are doorways to much, much more great music.

Heh... Who DOESN'T know B's 5th? (Interesting/amusing/ironic side-note (err... no pun intended, but since it's just laying there...) : Didja know that those 5 notes are perfect Morse code for the letter "V"? Which is, of course, "5" in Roman notation...)

As for the other folks who have replied, thanks and I'll go looking. The suggestion for Bartok (I can't type accented characters - My computer can, but I never can recall how to make 'em) brings up another question - Whats' the difference between a "concerto" and a "symphony"? And isn't a fugue something that happens when you have a nervous breakdown?  

[Monsieur Croche]

John Adams:
Harmonium (1980) 3rd movement finale, "Wild Nights."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRDTcrprBiQ
(below, the 1st & 2nd movements, Negative Love,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4pPohlQ1Ao
Because I Could Not Stop For Death.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWrraPTGRwg

Arthur Honegger:
Symphony no.5 (1950) final (3rd) movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtoWic9GQ8

Darius Milhaud:
Suite Provençale (1936)

Stravinsky:  Ebony Concerto (1945)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_8TakHuxqE
Whoops, chamber music! (How did that critter get in the house?)

Poulenc:
Concerto for two pianos and orchestra (1932)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V87wGyfUQiQ

Charles Ives ~ Three places in New England; III. The Housatonic at Stockbridge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbrVBk8qTLs

With your pronounced preference for  "no tinkley music; no unmanly chamber music," (lol), and your being virtually a stranger to about 1100 plus years of classical music, any and all suggested works are a wild guess as to what might interest you.

Pop any and all links onto a personal playlist: if names only were given find the pieces on youtube -- in several randomly chosen different performances, if possible -- and have at them at your leisure. 

Once you have a better idea of what appeals to you, holds your interest, with that in hand any number of members here can further point you in the direction(s) you want to go.


Best regards

[jessop]

This music 'tinkles' at times, but not like Chopin noooooooo way. These are EPIC tinkles, tinkles that ROCK, POWER TINKLES and ELECTRONIC TINKLES. Seeing this live would be a better experience than just watching it on youtube because of the INSANE SURROUND SOUND.

mind you...this isn't gonna be something like your mother's classical music, no way jose, this is not tinkly chamber music, this an EPIC SONIC EXPERIENCE, it is MUSCULAR MUSIC filled with TRIBAL RHYTHMS that make the music come ALIVE, makes the HEART RACE and the BLOOD PUMP....a rush of adrenaline..............

But on another level, this is the kind of music to let WASH OVER YOU as it transports your mind and your spirit to a new UNIVERSE of auditory experience...........this is art that takes you to ANOTHER LEVEL OF EXISTENCE....and it is SWITCHED ON!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQE5TYnD58k

[Monsieur Croche]

Fuga is the root Latin word for flight... from when comes (don't ask me how, just reportin the news) Fuga, fugue in music.  In psychiatric terms, that fugue state is a flight from reality :-)

For your general classical music terminology, a great resource for theory terms and concepts, forms, tempi and other directives, a great clarification and confusion busters had if you add this link to your bookmarks.  Us geeks who have a full formal training still find it useful, even...
http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheorydefs.htm

Happy and interesting musical explorations await you in checking those pieces people have recommended.


Best regards.

[Dakidd2112]

This music 'tinkles' at times, but not like Chopin noooooooo way. These are EPIC tinkles, tinkles that ROCK, POWER TINKLES and ELECTRONIC TINKLES. Seeing this live would be a better experience than just watching it on youtube because of the INSANE SURROUND SOUND.

mind you...this isn't gonna be something like your mother's classical music, no way jose, this is not tinkly chamber music, this an EPIC SONIC EXPERIENCE, it is MUSCULAR MUSIC filled with TRIBAL RHYTHMS that make the music come ALIVE, makes the HEART RACE and the BLOOD PUMP....a rush of adrenaline..............

But on another level, this is the kind of music to let WASH OVER YOU as it transports your mind and your spirit to a new UNIVERSE of auditory experience...........this is art that takes you to ANOTHER LEVEL OF EXISTENCE....and it is SWITCHED ON!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQE5TYnD58k

Ex... Exx.... uh... excuse me while I quite literally sit here laughing so hard I'm almost suffocating!

<whew!> Ok, now that I've got that out of my system!!! That was truly an epic sell. Absolutely, positively epic. No - seriously! It was hilarious!

So lemme go see what the product is - I can already tell I'll want at least 50 of 'em Maybe some stock in the company, too Oh, you didn't mention - will it cure male pattern baldness or ED? Sounds like it might handle both...

46+ minutes, eh? Well, at least I know I'm not getting rickrolled with 4:03 (I think that's the title, anyway)

While I'm downloading it (playing ANYTHING "live" from Youtube is almost physically painful for me due to my ancient computer and iffy wireless connection - can you say "skips like a record with a quarter-inch gouge across it"? Sure - I knew ya could ) I'll note this: Finished my previous reply and started googling around only to hit this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E7f00J0hDw - Paul Jacobs doing the Sinfonia from Cantata #29 on the organ where they taped the old "Hour of Power" show - the Crystal Cathedral, wasn't it? Ummm... What to say and how to say it? Well, in a nutshell, I had no choice but to applaud, even knowing full well it was just a youtube vid of an old performance. <BLINK> <BLINK> Just... Just... Wow. Color me blown away. Notice how I said blown, not scared. And I always thought Wendy's version on S-oB was neat... Just plain wow...

Dakidd's verdict on the Sinfonia as performed by Mr. Jacobs: Two big thumbs way WAY up! Absolutely outstanding. Totally mind-blowing. Recommended for any and all listeners.


And let's conserve some electrons, since it looks like this forum (the software, I mean - some can't cope) is smart enough to handle sticking quotes from multiple messages into one reply without too much trouble...

With your pronounced preference for  "no tinkley music; no unmanly chamber music," (lol), and your being virtually a stranger to about 1100 plus years of classical music, any and all suggested works are a wild guess as to what might interest you.

Which, my good man, is *PRECISELY* what I'm looking for. Wild guesses based on the (admittedly limited) information available. Exposure first, refinement later, doncha know...

Rest assured that even if I'm not immediately hitting links or chasing suggestions, they are indeed being noted for (very near) future consideration.

Once you have a better idea of what appeals to you, holds your interest, with that in hand any number of members here can further point you in the direction(s) you want to go.

By George, I do believe this fellow is reading my mind - or what's left of it! How else could he have caught on to my insidious plan so quickly? 
Trusty sidekick Fluffy, bring me the tinfoil and the origami hat instruction sheet, ASAP!

Oh, and that italicized "interesting" in your other response has me wondering if it would be wise to start running *NOW*, thus avoiding the crowds...
(As in "What does he know that makes me suspect I ought to be at least somewhat afraid, if not downright terrified?" )

<time passes, download completes, 'play' is pressed>

Ouch... Jessop, I don't know what kind of game you're playing at, but I wanted to hear about music, not a string of snippets from the soundtrack of a poorly scored suspense movie.
Seriously - as I type this, I'm at 5:54, and if the soundtrack is any indication, the killer/monster/bad guy has snuck up on/grabbed at/attempted to rape/otherwise menaced the innocent unsuspecting (and probably stereotypically air-headed, blonde, big-boobed and bimbo-esque) girl about 40 times or so, and I think Kojak, Columbo, Reed and Malloy, Ponch and Jon, Dirty Harry, and even Tootie from Car 54 have all gotten in on shooting (at?) the perp at least 15 times - so far. At the rate they're going, by the time this thing wraps up, they're going to need to be ordering body-bags by the gross, and gun violence won't be a problem, since they'll have used up nearly all of the ammunition. About another 30 seconds like this, and it's gonna exceed my obnoxiousness limit. (which means that, were I attending this performance, by now, I'd be at the box office demanding a refund of my admission price and deciding if I was going to make any stops for booze or munchies along my route home from the venue)

UGH. So I was generous - I let it get to 7:43, and it didn't improve. Skipped around to several places, and it doesn't get any better - it only gets more frenetic, strident, and just plain outright unpleasant. Enough. That's a real good example of the sort of crap that will put me off the genre completely. In fairness, I gotta say I expected something like a rickroll with the "sell" you gave it. Truth be told, an actual rickroll would have been less nasty than this putrified mess. Please imagine you've just pressed the 'play' button on a sound-effect track of Archie Bunker's toilet being flushed.

I must be looking in the wrong place, as I can't find a "spew" emoticon... Which is what this stinker deserves.

[jessop]

Boulez isn't for everyone! But now you know what to avoid. Mind you: Pierre Boulez is an excellent conductor so if you find yourself being recommended a recording of a composer such as Mahler or Ravel or Debussy with the name Boulez slapped across the front, it's gonna be a good ride!
And here is some proof to show that he isn't completely hostile

[DaveF]

Whats' the difference between a "concerto" and a "symphony"?

Now that's easy, as my brief self-help guide will illustrate:  In the good old Baroque days of the first half of the 18th century, there were multi-movement orchestral works called "Concertos" (or "Concerti" if we're being Italian).  You know the sort of thing - Bach Brandenburgs, Handel Concerti grossi, Corelli, Albinoni...  Then someone, probably Vivaldi, had the idea, as if Baroque orchestral parts weren't hard enough anyway, of putting a soloist out in front to play some even trickier stuff.  Because this new set-up was also called a "Concerto", they had to find a new name for the type that was just for orchestra, so they stole the name "Sinfonia" or "Symphony" from those short pieces that come at the beginnings of cantatas or operas.  They then had to find a new name for these, and hit on "Ouverture", which annoyed the French no end, who then had to find a completely new name for a hole in the wall.  So then everything went along happily for a century or so, until in the 20th composers started writing pieces called "Concerti" that didn't have a show-off soloist out front and were just for orchestra (Symphonies, in fact).  Everybody then got so confused that in 1963 Benjamin Britten wrote a cello concerto and accidentally called it "Symphony for cello and orchestra".  "You mean Concerto!" everyone shouted, but by then it was too late and the copies had gone to the printers.

So, to sum up, a symphony used to be an overture before becoming a concerto, which had in the meantime become a symphony.  It's ridiculously obvious when you get the hang of it.

[Dakidd2112]

Boulez isn't for everyone! But now you know what to avoid. Mind you: Pierre Boulez is an excellent conductor so if you find yourself being recommended a recording of a composer such as Mahler or Ravel or Debussy with the name Boulez slapped across the front, it's gonna be a good ride!
And here is some proof to show that he isn't completely hostile

After wading through the first puke-alicious steaming pile of crap you pointed me at, I have to admit that I'm not feeling particularly safe with your suggestions.

All joking aside, I offer a bit of advice for your dealings with any future folks like myself you might be tempted to "help":
Y'might say that having the first thing someone encounters when attempting to explore new territory turn out to be a schoolbus full of kindergartners smashing into a train derailment that's had a plane crash drop on top of it just before a sewage truck overturned on the whole thing doesn't really inspire a whole lot of confidence that there's anything out there worth bothering to go looking any further for...

If you're trying to drive people AWAY, the suggestion you gave me is a spectacularly good way to do it.

[Mahlerian]

After wading through the first puke-alicious steaming pile of crap you pointed me at, I have to admit that I'm not feeling particularly safe with your suggestions.

All joking aside, I offer a bit of advice for your dealings with any future folks like myself you might be tempted to "help":
Y'might say that having the first thing someone encounters when attempting to explore new territory turn out to be a schoolbus full of kindergartners smashing into a train derailment that's had a plane crash drop on top of it just before a sewage truck overturned on the whole thing doesn't really inspire a whole lot of confidence that there's anything out there worth bothering to go looking any further for...

If you're trying to drive people AWAY, the suggestion you gave me is a spectacularly good way to do it.

Different people respond to different things.  One of the reasons it's difficult to provide recommendations is that there's so much variety, even within the accepted greats (of whom Boulez is becoming one), that everyone is sure not to respond to everything that's become a classic.

Strange as it might sound to you, the music which you couldn't stand is in fact well-loved by many others (I mean, the work even won a Grammy).  It's not unreasonable to think that there are more out there.

Not that it's your problem for not responding; that's fine, just go elsewhere and find things you do like.

[Dakidd2112]

So, to sum up, a symphony used to be an overture before becoming a concerto, which had in the meantime become a symphony.  It's ridiculously obvious when you get the hang of it.

So to borrow a comparison from a certain series of books I like, it's sort of like the "Anglo-saxon who's actually a welshman who's forgotten his grandfather was a German"?

[jessop]

Honestly I have never seen such an adverse reaction to that Boulez piece before, but I suspect it is because you were expecting something very different to what you ended up getting.

The reason I mentioned Boulez is because you mentioned Frank Zappa; Pierre Boulez has collaborated with Zappa on number of tracks so I thought he'd be worth mentioning (as someone else had already mentioned Varèse).

I guess this is just the difference between expectation and reality and I do apologise for the poor recommendation!

[Sergeant Rock]

Honestly I have never seen such an adverse reaction to that Boulez piece before, but I suspect it is because you were expecting something very different to what you ended up getting.

It's my favorite Boulez work but I'm not surprised by his reaction (he asked for recommendations based on "soothing" music like Bach's greatest hits). The "real" world (outside our cozy group or similar) has a hard time accepting Boulez's music. And quite frankly, I don't plan to give him any recommendations. I don't think he's actually interested in classical music. (His behavior so far is rather trollish. He's spent more time dissing music than actually listening to the recommendations offered.) He admits he wants background music. That's not what we classical lovers are about.

Sarge

[jessop]

It's my favorite Boulez work but I'm not surprised by his reaction (he asked for recommendations based on "soothing" music like Bach's greatest hits). The "real" world (outside our cozy group or similar) has a hard time accepting Boulez's music. And quite frankly, I don't plan to give him any recommendations. I don't think he's actually interested in classical music. (His behavior so far is rather trollish. He's spent more time dissing music than actually listening to the recommendations offered.) He admits he wants background music. That's not what we classical lovers are about.

Sarge

He asked for something with 'thunder' so that's what I gave. DaveF recommended one of my favourite Xenakis pieces so I thought Boulez wouldn't be too out of line if we were doing things like that.

[k a rl h e nn i ng]

I *DON'T* want tinkly, plinky chamber music

Ah, dude, I love the tinkly, plinky chamber music . . . .

[Ghost Sonata]

Ah, dude, I love the tinkly, plinky chamber music . . . .

Yes, it's the best!@&*