Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 585832 times)

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11280 on: July 12, 2018, 11:39:59 AM »
This is no defense of Trump, but I thought back in 2008 that McCain's campaigning to bring Georgia into NATO was exceedingly reckless and was widely, and properly, criticized from both the left and libertarian right

for example:

https://www.thenation.com/article/getting-georgias-war/

We have no national security interest in these areas that are historically part of Russia's sphere of influence.  Georgia or the Ukraine is not worth the risk of a shooting war with Russia.

But, knee-jerk reactionaries that you all seem to be, anything that is the opposite of what you imagine Trump's policy to be has to be a good idea

And the members of the summit might have come to that conclusion during their allotted meeting time, had one egomaniac not decided its all about him and "loudest voice wins".


And I don't know who you think you're describing at the end there, but I'm reminded that insiders have reported that Trump on numerous occasions has decided policy by asking what Obama did and then saying "then we'll do the opposite".
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 12:55:17 PM by SimonNZ »

Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11281 on: July 12, 2018, 12:11:19 PM »
Populists are not the voters, but the authoritarian and elitist criminals that some voters put their hopes on (authoritarian power abusers, think of Mussolini, Berlusconi, Hitler and Stalin all alike)

Berlusconi, the equal of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin?  :o

What have you been smoking, man? Not even Calvinism can be any excuse for such a stupid notion.  ;D
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11282 on: July 12, 2018, 12:28:39 PM »
Stormy Daniels’s arrest, and the campaign to discredit her

By Molly Roberts
July 12 at 3:55 PM

Stormy Daniels has struck again — or rather, according to Ohio authorities, she “fondled.” The backward legislation that landed the adult-film actress in trouble has a lot in common with the conservative campaign to discredit her.

While performing her “Make America Horny Again” act on Wednesday night at a strip club in Columbus, Daniels was arrested on three counts of touching a patron (and, allegedly, undercover police officers) at a “sexually oriented business.” Ohio law, it turns out, prohibits “nude or seminude” employees from physical contact with customers who aren’t, uh, their immediate family members. The charges were dismissed on Thursday.

Daniels’s lawyer, Michael Avenatti, called his client’s arrest a “sting operation” and a “setup” that “reeks of desperation” from those worried about the adult-film actress’s lawsuit against President Trump and Michael Cohen over the hush agreement governing her alleged 2006 affair with the president.

It’s fair to say things smell fishy. That the charges were so speedily dismissed suggests there wasn’t much merit to them in the first place. The Columbus Dispatch reported last year that the “no-touching” law was rarely enforced, and had not been cited even once in the county in its 10 years of existence. Plus, as Avenatti said, Daniels had performed her act all across the country without any trouble.

But whether Avenatti is on-point or simply paranoid, it’s worth looking at the motivations behind Ohio’s so-called Community Defense Act and how they dovetail with the Trump camp’s attacks against Daniels.

Daniels was arrested, in effect, for being a stripper — for doing what customers come to strip clubs to see strippers do, and what, in many cases, they pay extra for. The law, backed by conservative Christian advocates, essentially seeks to stop strippers from stripping the way they want to, and the language it uses to do so is telling: A performer not only faces a penalty for touching a patron, but also for allowing herself to be touched by a patron.

The rule plays on people’s moral disapprobation to cast the dancer as a crook even in consensual interactions that clearly have two parties involved. (Patrons aren’t allowed to touch dancers, either, but there’s no rule against them “allowing” themselves to be touched.) She becomes responsible for someone else’s actions as well as her own, essentially because, by stripping in the first place, she has put herself in a compromising position.

The Trump team has tried to play the same trick throughout the Daniels scandal. Even as they’ve denied the president’s liaison with the porn star, they have taken pains to attack Daniels for what she does — to diminish her credibility and to diminish her claim that she deserves protection at all.

“I don’t respect a porn star the way I respect a career woman, or a woman of substance, or a woman who has great respect for herself as a woman, and as a person,” Trump’s lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, said last month. He added, “Explain to me how she could be damaged. She has no reputation. If you’re going to sell your body for money, you just don’t have a reputation.”

Trump said Giuliani was “doing a very good job.”

No matter what happened, this argument goes, Daniels had it coming. It’s not so concerning to Trump’s defenders that he may have cheated on his wife four months after she gave birth to their first child together. Any fallout that harms him is Daniels’s fault, and any fallout that hurts her is her fault, too. The president is the president, after all. The porn star is a porn star.

This attitude — that a woman is responsible not only for what she does with her body, but for what a man does to it, too — is a variant of the “she-was-asking-for-it” argument so common among those who commit sexual assault. It took a while for society to stop accepting the defense so readily for any woman. But when it’s deployed against a stripper, or an adult-film actress, or someone else so many Americans still deem deviant, it’s easier to get away with. And perhaps it’s even easier for the president. After all, when you’re a star like he is, you can do anything.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline eljr

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11283 on: July 12, 2018, 12:47:49 PM »
you do not seem to understand much of anything

Or you just have a victims mentality, common among TRumpets.

Quote
And I suppose if 50 year old Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) gives birth to a child with a disability her life will be a failure as well, or is she just merely irresponsible?


Just makes her irresponsible, like Sarah.


A failed life is more than one mistake. We all make mistakes.

Hope this helps!
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Offline eljr

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11284 on: July 12, 2018, 12:49:43 PM »
Just because YOU say it, doesn't make it true.
I'd say" complete poppycock"!

More poppycock!

“You practice and you get better. It’s very simple.”
Philip Glass

Offline eljr

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11285 on: July 12, 2018, 02:04:19 PM »
Great news!

Sarah Palin will be on ABC tomorrow morning!

What a great way to start the day. I can't wait to see that Jerry Springer family matriarch!

The lovely Sarah. Oh joy.

Life is good!!!!!!


“You practice and you get better. It’s very simple.”
Philip Glass

Offline arpeggio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11286 on: July 12, 2018, 05:00:36 PM »
The Bushes are in a category by themselves. They are not conservatives but predators and autocrats.  None of them support the present government. I spent one summer reading up on that family which goes all the way back to war profiteering with Preston Bush in WWI. Too bad he evaded prosecution from Congress in the 1920's. That would have clipped that family's wings. Look up the secretive "Skull and Bones" Society at Yale. Three generations of Bushes were members. War profiteering didn't stop with Gramps, it became a family tradition:

Cheney's Halliburton Made $39.5 Billion on Iraq War. ..."Ten contractors received 52 percent of the funds" according to an analysis by the Financial Times.

Useless, unwinnable and horrendously expensive wars are not a part of "conservative philosophy". Kennedy wanted to get out of Vietnam. What a coincidence that after he was knocked off, the war bled on!

Again, it is misleading to think that the US is divided by party lines. Frequently interests converge on both sides, making it financially profitable for Dems and Repubs alike to line their own pockets.


First remarks you have made I agree with.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11287 on: July 12, 2018, 05:03:37 PM »
Great news!

Sarah Palin will be on ABC tomorrow morning!

What a great way to start the day. I can't wait to see that Jerry Springer family matriarch!

The lovely Sarah. Oh joy.

Life is good!!!!!!

I think this has the potential to be much more fun.

https://crooksandliars.com/2018/07/sacha-baron-cohen-pranks-sarah-palin-and

Though I admit not being a big fan of cringe comedy.

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11288 on: July 12, 2018, 08:31:53 PM »
Well, I was going to post about how appalling on so many levels I thought Trump's interview with The Sun (The Sun, ferchrissakes) was - but then I remembered that I'm just "a  knee-jerk reactionary", and its not him that's got the problem, its me and my insufferable "morality".
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 08:36:24 PM by SimonNZ »

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11289 on: July 12, 2018, 08:39:58 PM »
Wow.  Someone has been whipped up into a religious extremist frenzy. 
Life begins at birth.  Is that so difficult to understand? 
Find one passage in the New Testament that disputes the claim.  Even one. 
While you're at it, count how many times in the New Testament we are extorted to love one another, to treat others kindly, and even to extend our kindness and love to strangers -- like immigrants.  I would guess dozens of times. 
This pro-immigrant message, repeatedly and emphatically delivered, is completely ignored, and is buried by an anti-abortion crusade which has almost zero foundation in the Bible!
The so-called conservative Christians, better named christian Capitalists, are engaged in massive hypocracy, and have lost practically all contact with the original message of Jeshua.
Geez.  I suppose though it's easier to pass through the eye of a needle....

Using the language of morality to defend the indefensible was the thrust of the quoted article.
BTW, Islam forbids abortion also a few other things that got in through the cracks in our doors.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11290 on: July 12, 2018, 09:31:12 PM »
The article was mindless drivel.  I didn't realize you were quoting from it.  I have no idea whether you agree with the argument it presents or not.

So much moral posturing, so much forgotten morality.

As an atheist, I cannot argue that you will be judged for your frivolity, but I do think you ought to get to know your own religion, not least before you seek to impose your perception of it on others.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 09:47:44 PM by Bubbles »
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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11291 on: July 12, 2018, 09:44:06 PM »
The article was mindless drivel.  I didn't realize you were quoting from it.  I have no idea whether you agree with the argument it presents or not.
So much moral posturing, so much forgotten morality.
As an atheist, I cannot argue that you will be judged for your frivolity, but I do think you ought to get to know your own religion.  Not least before you seek to impose your perception of it on others.

Oh, sure! If you are an atheist, why be concerned with the moral follies of others?
"I write to discover what I know."
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11292 on: July 12, 2018, 09:49:43 PM »
Because I have to endure them, here and elsewhere.  The persistence of dumb ideas has real-world consequences.

Ordinarily I just ignore your unending rants. I think I will revert to that policy again.  Adieu.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 09:52:22 PM by Bubbles »
"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it." – Emmanuel Radnitzky (Man Ray)

Offline Marc

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11293 on: July 12, 2018, 10:23:43 PM »
I have posted several times in this thread, and in many other 'Diner' threads, so actually I'm out of order with this. I do apologize in advance.

Still, the continuing popularity of this thread, combined with the continuing nasty attitude of contributors towards each other, et cetera and et al, gives me the unpleasant idea that GMG is slowly turning into one of those reckless online political boards. IMHO, there are already plenty of those boards around the world wide web. And who knows, maybe they are in need of new members, so please join them, scream and shout there, and leave this board (relatively) in peace.
I always thought that GMG was a (classical) music board. Why don't we just close this thread, and even The Diner, with the exception of other 'arty' subjects like movies, tv-series, pop music, jazz, visual & graphic arts? My guess is that it would be much more fun. People with opposite political opinions are still able to share their mutual passions and interests.

Politics and religion topics and discussions seem to bring out the worst in people.

Let's talk about sex music baby.

Cheers!
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Offline ritter

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11294 on: July 12, 2018, 11:08:50 PM »
Yes, the level of the discussion in this thread has descended to abominable lows, with an amount of incivility and personal disqualification (from many sides) which IMHO is unbecoming for a forum like GMG. The solution does no appear easy, but a minimum level of self-restraint by posters could be a starting point.   ::)
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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11295 on: July 12, 2018, 11:58:40 PM »
I think this has the potential to be much more fun.
https://crooksandliars.com/2018/07/sacha-baron-cohen-pranks-sarah-palin-and
Though I admit not being a big fan of cringe comedy.

Not funny AT ALL!
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11296 on: July 13, 2018, 12:30:41 AM »
Where is the Daily Wire?  Solidly in Propaganda/Contains Misleading Info, and Hyper-Partisan Conservative, spilling into Most Extreme Conservative. 

It's the first time I hear about Daily Wire, so I am in no position to judge if the chart is right or wrong on them, but...

Quote
I read for content.

...and so do I. As such, I have to say that the article contains the following eminently reasonable point:

Quote from: Matt Walsh
We pro-lifers are either wrong or right. We cannot be anything in between. We leave Tomi Lahren and everyone else no room to straddle the line. The claim we make is too radical, too absolute, too severe. We insist that actual human persons are being legally and systematically murdered by the thousands every day in America. We insist that 60 million such persons have lost their lives in the last few decades. We insist that entire generations are being erased from existence. If we are wrong, then there is no reason to respect us, support us, or "personally agree" with us on any level. We are maniacs and oppressors, and that is what you should call us.

But if we are right, then this matter deserves your undivided attention. If we are right, then our fight is the most important fight in the world. If we are right, then this mere "social issue" dwarfs every other issue and the only criticism you can make of our tactics and our rhetoric is that they are not radical enough. Certainly, at a minimum, if we are right then abortion is a holocaust and our government should abolish this holocaust for the same reason it abolished Hitler's holocaust. It should abolish it even more so, actually, because it is presently guilty of facilitating and funding this holocaust. So, you must either be radically in agreement with us or radically opposed. I do not see how any rational, thinking person could sit in the middle ground. There is no middle ground.

Tomi and the rest in her camp should choose a side. They already have chosen a side, but they are not being intellectually honest about the side they have chosen and the implications of choosing it.
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Offline eljr

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11297 on: July 13, 2018, 02:45:01 AM »
Oh, sure! If you are an atheist, why be concerned with the moral follies of others?

You should not be concerned with the morality of others, period.

“You practice and you get better. It’s very simple.”
Philip Glass

Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11298 on: July 13, 2018, 02:47:49 AM »
You should not be concerned with the morality of others, period.

Then why are you concerned with Trump's?  ;D
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Offline eljr

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #11299 on: July 13, 2018, 03:02:45 AM »
Then why are you concerned with Trump's?  ;D

I am concerned with Trump's morality?
LOL
It's one of the few things I have no issue with.

I think Stormy is a bit sloppy to hit but some of the other women look good.

Raping his wife is a crime, that is different,
“You practice and you get better. It’s very simple.”
Philip Glass