Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 554916 times)

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Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12440 on: September 21, 2018, 04:22:50 PM »
It is depressing for sure, but there is hope. As horrible as Trump's presidency has been it can have also some positive effects in making american wake up politically. Trump won partly because the voting activity among evangelicals was high. The other side must be active too. Left-wing candidates have been pretty successful in primaries despite of the money disanvantage so there IS activity on the left now and it works. It is actually quite easy for America to get out of this mess: Always vote for the furthest left candidate (the ones who don't take corporate money) and vote on every election to outnumber evangelicals who will always vote for the furthest right candidate no matter what. If enough americans do that things can really change for the better.
Success in primaries does not equal success in general elections.
There are actually a lot of American gun owners. They don't subscribe to the NRA extremism but they don't think guns should be banned.
There are a lot of Americans like me, who think the feminist idea that terminating a human life before birth is essential to female equality, is wrong. If your rights are based on the death of others, your rights are BS.
Usw.
Buckley's maxim, that the GOP should nominate the most electable conservative, applies equally to the Left.  Nominate the most electable progressive.

Online André

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12441 on: September 21, 2018, 05:26:44 PM »
“Here’s what I want to tell you,” McConnell said Friday morning at a summit for social conservatives. “In the very near future, Judge Kavanaugh will be on the U.S. Supreme Court. So, my friends, keep the faith. Don’t get rattled by all this. We’re going to plow right through it and do our job.”

There is no other way to read McConnell’s comment other than that the Ford allegation doesn’t matter to him, at least not when he’s so close to fulfilling his goal of firming up the Supreme Court’s 5-to-4 conservative majority weeks before an election.

Put another way: A woman accused a Supreme Court nominee of drunkenly pinning her to a bed, groping her and covering her mouth when she screamed when they were in high school decades ago. She provided therapist notes from well before Kavanaugh was such a public figure. She took a polygraph test. She is willing to undergo an FBI investigation and testify under oath before the Senate. These are all moves that outside experts say make her story credible, and yet here is the most powerful politician in the Senate appearing to brush all of that aside because he wants to “do [his] job.”

Not that this is a surprise — we’ve been questioning whether Republicans were taking Ford’s accusations seriously since they came out. It’s just a surprise to hear it put so plainly by the politician with the most control over the process.


Patti Davis (Ronald Reagan’s daughter) believes Ford, and she has good reasons to do so:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-was-sexually-assaulted-heres-why-i-dont-remember-many-of-the-details/2018/09/21/8ce0088c-bdab-11e8-8792-78719177250f_story.html?utm_term=.37e6be3f3599

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12442 on: September 21, 2018, 06:54:17 PM »
Patti Davis (Ronald Reagan’s daughter) believes Ford, and she has good reasons to do so:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-was-sexually-assaulted-heres-why-i-dont-remember-many-of-the-details/2018/09/21/8ce0088c-bdab-11e8-8792-78719177250f_story.html?utm_term=.37e6be3f3599


Strangely enough only conservatives seem to think not wanting to appear at a hearing whose only aim is to discredit you is proof that you are lying.

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12443 on: September 21, 2018, 07:30:14 PM »
Success in primaries does not equal success in general elections.
There are actually a lot of American gun owners. They don't subscribe to the NRA extremism but they don't think guns should be banned.
There are a lot of Americans like me, who think the feminist idea that terminating a human life before birth is essential to female equality, is wrong. If your rights are based on the death of others, your rights are BS.
Usw.
Buckley's maxim, that the GOP should nominate the most electable conservative, applies equally to the Left.  Nominate the most electable progressive.

I doubt there are any pro-choice women - "feminist" or otherwise - who would frame the issue in these terms.

Also: people who are calling for gun control aren't calling for banning. Nobody believes that genie is going back in the bottle.

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12444 on: September 21, 2018, 07:55:56 PM »
I doubt there are any pro-choice women - "feminist" or otherwise - who would frame the issue in these terms.


Which shows why pro-choice advocates don't understand the pro-life POV.

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12445 on: September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 PM »
You have to understand that in zb's mind, Trump and Roy Moore are bastions of virtue, and any woman accusing them of impropriety is a floozy whom zb feels at absolute liberty to smear.  Oh, funny how she decries our "smearing" Trump and Roy Moore, innit?

Brett Kavanaugh has an impressive record from when he graduated Yale cum laude with a degree in American History. He was a professor at Harvard Law School with excellent character references from anyone who knew him or worked with him.

The timing of the accusation is very suspicious. If it turns out to be true, then he is a person who managed to put on a good show all these years with skeletons in the closet, possible but not probable, given the highly visible circumstances of his career. If this is a rerun of the Anita Hill accusations against Clarence Thomas, then it is a snarky, low life attempt to drag good people in the mud with them.

I don't know the details of the accusations against Roy Moore, if they were proven or not. The point is whether adolescent indiscretions like getting drunk are enough to nix decades of good work and service in one's adult life and in effect, destroy a person's whole career.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 09:32:36 PM by zamyrabyrd »
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12446 on: September 21, 2018, 08:03:46 PM »
Which shows why pro-choice advocates don't understand the pro-life POV.

They do understand. And they disagree.

They also see a hypocrisy in the intense intrest in the wellbeing of this "life" before its born and the apathy for its wellbeing after its born.

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12447 on: September 21, 2018, 08:14:23 PM »
There are a lot of Americans like me, who think the feminist idea that terminating a human life before birth is essential to female equality, is wrong. If your rights are based on the death of others, your rights are BS.

Exactly, one shouldn't have to accept a package of values, rather to be able to pick and choose. However, there is a common denominator when opinions or positions are touted as "rights", a very convenient buzz word. There is no right to step on the rights of others. There is no need to have special categories of rights because they also imply a hierarchy and not equality.

As for abortion, it is not a walk in the park. Despite the disseminated lies (there is a reason behind it all, kill of the native population and bring in migrants), it is a source of horror and misery to the women who went through it.  It is interesting that the most vocal and hysterical opposition to Kavanaugh come from the so called "abortion rights" contingent.
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Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12448 on: September 21, 2018, 08:44:36 PM »
There are a lot of Americans like me, who think the feminist idea that terminating a human life before birth is essential to female equality, is wrong. If your rights are based on the death of others, your rights are BS.

The problem with this point of view is that it is impossible to define the point where a fetus has become a human being. Birth is an absurd criteria because it should be self evident that a full term fetus the day before labor begins is just as much a human being as it would be the next day when delivered. Conception is an equally absurd criteria, since it would give the full rights of a human being to a fertilized ovum, a single cell which may or may not have the potential to develop into a human being. A fertilized ovum in a health woman's body has a small chance of attaching and developing, and you can make dozens of them in a Petri dish by mixing semen with fertilized eggs obtained from a woman's ovaries. By this definition a fertility clinic lab technician who mishandles such a Petri dish would be a mass murderer and subject to capital punishment. The only thing that makes sense is the extremely unsatisfactory, but unavoidable, conclusion that the fetus gradually becomes human with no clear demarcation line.

Abortion is something I would avoid at all costs, but if there is a complex medical decision to be made, I do not want the state to step in and interfere with what is an agonizing decision for all concerned.

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12449 on: September 21, 2018, 09:57:37 PM »
“Here’s what I want to tell you,” McConnell said Friday morning at a summit for social conservatives. “In the very near future, Judge Kavanaugh will be on the U.S. Supreme Court. So, my friends, keep the faith. Don’t get rattled by all this. We’re going to plow right through it and do our job.”

There is no other way to read McConnell’s comment other than that the Ford allegation doesn’t matter to him, at least not when he’s so close to fulfilling his goal of firming up the Supreme Court’s 5-to-4 conservative majority weeks before an election.

Put another way: A woman accused a Supreme Court nominee of drunkenly pinning her to a bed, groping her and covering her mouth when she screamed when they were in high school decades ago. She provided therapist notes from well before Kavanaugh was such a public figure. She took a polygraph test. She is willing to undergo an FBI investigation and testify under oath before the Senate. These are all moves that outside experts say make her story credible, and yet here is the most powerful politician in the Senate appearing to brush all of that aside because he wants to “do [his] job.”

Not that this is a surprise — we’ve been questioning whether Republicans were taking Ford’s accusations seriously since they came out. It’s just a surprise to hear it put so plainly by the politician with the most control over the process.


What sensible women have to say about the case:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/NWcglh-0PIg" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/NWcglh-0PIg</a>
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12450 on: September 21, 2018, 11:49:34 PM »
Thanks SimonNZ for responding JBS's BS posts so I don't need to bother...  0:)
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Offline EddieRUKiddingVarese

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12451 on: September 22, 2018, 12:03:31 AM »
"Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"
 and I need the knits, the double knits!

Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12452 on: September 22, 2018, 04:05:53 AM »
Brett Kavanaugh has an impressive record from when he graduated Yale cum laude with a degree in American History. He was a professor at Harvard Law School with excellent character references from anyone who knew him or worked with him.

The timing of the accusation is very suspicious. If it turns out to be true, then he is a person who managed to put on a good show all these years with skeletons in the closet, possible but not probable, given the highly visible circumstances of his career. If this is a rerun of the Anita Hill accusations against Clarence Thomas, then it is a snarky, low life attempt to drag good people in the mud with them.

I don't know the details of the accusations against Roy Moore, if they were proven or not. The point is whether adolescent indiscretions like getting drunk are enough to nix decades of good work and service in one's adult life and in effect, destroy a person's whole career.

Anita Hill was backed up by other employees and clerks in her accusations against Thomas. The Judiciary Committee simply refused to hear their evidence, just as now Grassley and the other lowlifes on the Committee are refusing to hear witnesses that will verify Blasey-Ford's story. In B-F's case this includes the other people at the party and a number of witnesses to whom she gave contemporaneous accounts of what happened to her. The Republicans want a kangaroo hearing with no chance of getting to the truth, because the truth will have Kavanaugh out on his ass.

Also, Kavanaugh's record is not clear. He has repeatedly lied to the Judiciary Committee over the last two decades. This alone should disqualify him from consideration:   

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-lies-senate-testimony-supreme-court.html

Finally, it is not "adolescent indiscretions like getting drunk" he is accused of. He is accused of sexual assault and now, once again, lying to the Judiciary Committee to cover up his crime.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12453 on: September 22, 2018, 04:54:23 AM »
Thanks SimonNZ for responding JBS's BS posts so I don't need to bother...  0:)

If you think that someone having an opinion different to yours is BS—that itself is BS.

And is, by the bye, a core problem in the present public conversation.  Right?  So are you going to be part of the problem, or part of the solution?
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12454 on: September 22, 2018, 05:01:16 AM »
If you think that someone having an opinion different to yours is BS—that itself is BS.

And is, by the bye, a core problem in the present public conversation.  Right?  So are you going to be part of the problem, or part of the solution?

So you don't think saying the left wants to BAN guns isn't BS? What are you a far right nut now or what Karl?
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12455 on: September 22, 2018, 06:45:06 AM »
   
Which shows why pro-choice advocates don't understand the pro-life POV.

     I think the arguments are understood by both sides. It's about the circumstances of abortion and who controls access. Pro life advocates want to control the choices made by other people with fewer resources. Pro choice advocates don't want to force pro lifers to have abortions.

    I see abortion control in the light of gerrymandering and vote suppression. The Repub model is that access is restricted based on status measures like race and income.

    If sincerity had anything to do with abortion control I'd have picked up on it. Most people of any ideology don't give a damn about fetuses as a generality however much they care about a particular one of them. But they do care very much about the kind of social control their ideology endorses.
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Offline EddieRUKiddingVarese

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12456 on: September 22, 2018, 12:34:09 PM »
I would trust Trump more if he was a cross dresser
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12457 on: September 22, 2018, 03:54:47 PM »
Bailout checks begin arriving for farmers, as Trump’s trade war escalates

"The federal government has given $25.8 million to farmers this month under a program designed to help them weather President Trump’s international trade battle, a spokesman for the Agriculture Department said Friday.

The money represents some of the first payments of what the Trump administration said will eventually be a $12 billion bailout, which aims to help farmers cope with retaliatory tariffs foreign countries have imposed on their products. Those retaliatory tariffs have dimmed demand for U.S. products overseas and resulted in a domestic supply glut that has deflated some prices at home."

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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #12459 on: September 22, 2018, 08:03:49 PM »
As ever, you have the facts wrong: She said there were four boys at the party and that two stayed downstairs while two were upstairs trying to rape her.

There are no indisputable, verified facts by third parties, only a fuzzy allegation.

— There is good evidence that the two she alleges were in the room, Kavanaugh and Mark Judge, were drinking buddies who got puking drunk together during this time period, just as Ford described: In one of Judge's memoirs (Wasted: Tales of a Gen X Drunk) he describes an incident when one "Bart O'Kavanaugh" puked all over someone's car during one of these bouts. Mark Judge needs to be questioned by the FBI, along with the rest of Kavanaugh's drinking buddies.

There is no evidence of anything. No indication and certainly no proof of where this incident took place or when it happened.

— Blasey-Ford is asking for an FBI investigation, Kavanaugh, who claims he wants to clear his name, is not. That should tell you something.

The FBI doesn't carry out this kind of investigation but would rather turn it over to local officials. They in turn would not be able to do anything with a 36 year old allegation where there are no witnesses or even an address. Again, you are missing the point, the timing here is everything and the motive crystal clear, to slander a good person's name and ruin an honorable career. It would not be the first this ever happened. Meanwhile the Dems can stretch the vetting process like chewing gum. Senator Feinstein's behavior alone was despicable in keeping back the letter for 6 weeks, which part of it was even redacted.
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