Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 729120 times)

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Offline arpeggio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15340 on: February 20, 2019, 04:56:41 AM »
I would prefer any of the Dems to Trump.

As a reformed ditto head the Republican party would have to modify their positions on a women's right to choose, climate change and Darwin (according to most poll's I have seen between 60 and 70% of Republicans are creationists)before I would return the Republican Party.  I did not leave the Republican party the Republican Party left me.  I recently reread Conscious of a Conservative.  Goldwater, the father of the modern conservative movement, could not win the Republican primary for the Senate in today's Republican Party.

As a former conservative I find it disheartening that Trumpsters disregard the observations of many great conservative minds (Bill Kristol, David Frum, George Will and many others) who consider Trump to be unfit for the office of President and a threat to our Democracy.

Offline arpeggio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15341 on: February 20, 2019, 05:17:46 AM »
The following is a link to an article about David Frum's book Trumpocracy: https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/16880524/donald-trump-democracy-republicans-trumpocracy.  If this can not convince a Trumpster that Trump is unfit to be President I doubt that they will listen to anything I can say.

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15342 on: February 20, 2019, 05:32:22 AM »
I think Bernie Sanders has by now very good name recognition and when polled among people of all ages (not mostly among old people who prefer Biden) is the most popular politician in the country. It's the corporate media trying to belittle him (and other progressives) while propping up Biden (and Kamala Harris).

     You're correct about the popularity of Sanders, but I don't see how old people propping up Biden isn't a kind of popularity, too.

     Biden and Harris will get negative coverage, I promise you. The higher they fly the more they will get.

     Of course you're right that people want progressive policies delivered by centrists. How did you learn so much about American politics?
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15343 on: February 20, 2019, 05:37:46 AM »
     You're correct about the popularity of Sanders, but I don't see how old people propping up Biden isn't a kind of popularity, too.

     Biden and Harris will get negative coverage, I promise you. The higher they fly the more they will get.

     Of course you're right that people want progressive policies delivered by centrists. How did you learn so much about American politics?

From Todd.  ;)

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15344 on: February 20, 2019, 06:01:21 AM »


As a former conservative I find it disheartening that Trumpsters disregard the observations of many great conservative minds (Bill Kristol, David Frum, George Will and many others) who consider Trump to be unfit for the office of President and a threat to our Democracy.

     George Will plays a great mind on TV and in print. His economic understandings are troglodytic, as he thinks that prosperity is too expensive for anyone who isn't rich. That puts him squarely in the middle of the conservative pack. Even if it's granted that Will is a conservative intellectual because he has a thought on occasion, thinkers as a class have no role in the conservative party.

     Who are the conservatives that are listened to by Repubs telling them to pay attention to science and objective fact? You can't be an intellectual of any kind and tell politicians it's very OK to dismiss climate change as a Chinese hoax.

From Todd.  ;)

     (+1 )
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Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15345 on: February 20, 2019, 06:17:52 AM »
That's just Overton window. AOC has already moved it to the left a bit. People label themselves conservative, but issue by issue are actually on the left.

The Dems have been going to the right and how has this served them? During Obama's presidency they lost over 1000 seats.

Beating Trump is not the only thing the US (and the whole World) needs. The US needs radical changes. "Least leftward" Democrats are not for these changes. They are for status quo (or incrementalism at best), the same status quo that gave us Trump.

Doesn't matter, because CloudBootJar has no chance in this race.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/oRXMPS1gjoc" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/oRXMPS1gjoc</a>

1) You continually overestimate the strength of progressive ideas here.  You also underestimate how much Obama pulled the Democrats to the left. The Democrats kept losing because they kept moving to the left.
The only thing saving them is the fact that the GOP has moved so far to the right.

2)Bernie Sanders is as much a corporatist as any other politician.

3)Push polls saying people support a slogan disguised as an idea are not evidence of what people actually want here.  If you assume every poll is being massaged to produce a predetermined result, you will get a better idea of how Americans feel.

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15346 on: February 20, 2019, 06:45:48 AM »

     A 1951 book about totalitarianism is flying off the shelves. Here's why.

     
Sean Illing

So obviously we’re dealing with this problem right now, this loss of a shared reality. We’re in this bizarre “post-truth” climate in which our president lies with impunity, fake news and misinformation are pervasive, and much of the country is cocooned inside self-affirming information bubbles. At the same time, there’s a resurgence of racism and ethnonationalism, both here and in Europe.

I take it Arendt would have anticipated this?

Lyndsey Stonebridge

Absolutely. The relationship between that kind of politics and violence was inextricable for Arendt. One of the things people do when they’ve become uprooted is to retreat into us-them fictions, and that often means dividing the world racially.

I think the politics of Trumpism and politics of Brexit, the politics of the new right, have deliberately merged, and so you cannot pull them apart. What we're also getting as a product of this organized loneliness is a valorization of race politics and even violent racism.



1) You continually overestimate the strength of progressive ideas here.  You also underestimate how much Obama pulled the Democrats to the left. The Democrats kept losing because they kept moving to the left.
The only thing saving them is the fact that the GOP has moved so far to the right.

2)Bernie Sanders is as much a corporatist as any other politician.

3)Push polls saying people support a slogan disguised as an idea are not evidence of what people actually want here.  If you assume every poll is being massaged to produce a predetermined result, you will get a better idea of how Americans feel.
   

     The Dems are rhetorically more left than the American populace. In policy terms the difference is much less. Higher taxes on the wealthy is a popular proposal, so is aggressive action on climate change and expansion of health care coverage.

    The left tried to push Obama towards them, but outside of the ACA and certain characteristics of a personal nature he was no leftist. The post-Obama Dems act like they have been liberated from ties to Obama and Hillary, and are free to redefine the party in their image. I think they'll settle down when they see how the various candidates do when voters begin to have their say.

    What people actually want is to the left of how people want to be identified. Repub voters do not want to have health care taken from them to destroy a symbol of the Kenyan Socialist.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15347 on: February 20, 2019, 09:14:37 AM »
1) You continually overestimate the strength of progressive ideas here.  You also underestimate how much Obama pulled the Democrats to the left. The Democrats kept losing because they kept moving to the left.
The only thing saving them is the fact that the GOP has moved so far to the right.

Wow. Where did you "learn" this garbage? Yes, corporate media has been saying this, but they are corporate hacks and really bad at their job. Obama ran as a leftist and was a leftist on social issues (just as most Dems are), but on economical issues he was a corporate centrist. He had supermajority and gave Americans a half measure Obamacare (re-named right-wing think tank Mitt Romneycare). Obama was also friendly to Wall Street and the military industry liked how Obama took Bush dumber's two wars and made them seven wars. A real leftist president wouldn't have done these things.

Bernie Sanders is as much a corporatist as any other politician.

Yeah, "forcing" Amazon/Disney to pay $15 to it's workers is so pro-corporations. How clueless are you?

Push polls saying people support a slogan disguised as an idea are not evidence of what people actually want here.  If you assume every poll is being massaged to produce a predetermined result, you will get a better idea of how Americans feel.

How you ask affects how people answer, but left wing ideas are very popular among Americans nevertheless. Why wouldn't they be? Americans suffer, because the system is so rigged for the top 1 %. Making it more fair benefits most Americans.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 09:19:51 AM by 71 dB »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15348 on: February 20, 2019, 09:25:28 AM »
     You're correct about the popularity of Sanders, but I don't see how old people propping up Biden isn't a kind of popularity, too.

     Biden and Harris will get negative coverage, I promise you. The higher they fly the more they will get.

     Of course you're right that people want progressive policies delivered by centrists. How did you learn so much about American politics?

Of course Biden's popularity among old people is real, but comparing poll numbers isn't exact. Bernie is insanely popular among younger people.

If Biden and Harris gets hammered it's nothing compared to progressives.

Centrists don't do much progressive policies, they have donors to serve.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15349 on: February 20, 2019, 09:42:45 AM »
Of course Biden's popularity among old people is real, but comparing poll numbers isn't exact. Bernie is insanely popular among younger people.

If Biden and Harris gets hammered it's nothing compared to progressives.

Centrists don't do much progressive policies, they have donors to serve.

    What progressive policies came from progressive Presidents? FDR and LBJ were responsible for a great number of them, and they were not leftists. Leftists pushed them.

    I don't think Obama ran as a leftist. He knew he would be portrayed as one and did as little as possible to earn the title. His ACA was right down the middle in trying to achieve a goal the left and center agreed on for generations in a way least disruptive to the system as it existed. To the horror of Repubs he turned a "Republican alternative" into a real thing, something that's never supposed to happen. No wonder there had to be death panels, isn't that what Kenyan Socialists are for?
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15350 on: February 20, 2019, 10:52:09 AM »
     When Nazis Took Manhattan


     

     February 20, 1939

At Madison Square Garden, the rally opened with the pledge of allegiance to the American flag. The mood was jubilant. Attendees wore Nazi armbands, waved American flags, and held aloft posters with slogans like "Stop Jewish Domination of Christian America." There were Storm Troopers in the aisles, their uniforms almost identical to those of Nazi Germany. "It looked like any political rally - only with a Nazi twist," said Arnie Bernstein, author of Swastika Nation.

The speeches were explicitly anti-Semitic, and tirades against "job-taking Jewish refugees" were met with thunderous applause. "They demanded a white gentile America, they denounced Roosevelt as 'Rosenfeld,' to say that Roosevelt was in the pocket of rich Jews," said Sarah Churchwell, author of Behold, America. In equal measure to the xenophobia, the speeches were loaded with American boosterism.


The German American Bund faded away, but the white supremacist ideology they championed remains. "There's something they tapped into, that is part of America," said Bernstein, who pointed to the 1978 attempt by Nazis to march in Skokie, Illinois, the resurgence of the KKK in response to the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960s, and the 2017 Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, VA. "80 years later, the philosophy is still there," Bernstein said. "All these groups maintain that they are patriotic Americans - and this is the America that they see."

     
     <a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WpaYQqzFouw" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WpaYQqzFouw</a>
   

     
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 12:48:55 PM by drogulus »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15351 on: February 20, 2019, 02:35:18 PM »
After the first 24 hours after Bernie Sanders announced he is running:

- $6 million raised
- 225.000 contributors
- Average donation $27

That's four times Kamala Harris' "record breaking" first 24 hours.  ;D
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15352 on: February 20, 2019, 03:33:29 PM »
After the first 24 hours after Bernie Sanders announced he is running:

- $6 million raised
- 225.000 contributors
- Average donation $27

That's four times Kamala Harris' "record breaking" first 24 hours.  ;D

Of course, Bernie was in the primaries four years ago, so I suppose technically it is not really his first 24 hours.
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Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15353 on: February 20, 2019, 03:35:39 PM »
After the first 24 hours after Bernie Sanders announced he is running:

- $6 million raised
- 225.000 contributors
- Average donation $27

That's four times Kamala Harris' "record breaking" first 24 hours.  ;D

This is like going to the horse track and getting worked up about which horse is eating his oats faster. The race hasn't started! :)
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15354 on: February 20, 2019, 06:43:46 PM »
Trump’s New Climate Czar: Carbon Dioxide Has Been Treated Just Like “Jews Under Hitler”

"William Happer, who is spearheading a proposed White House panel on climate change, believes CO2 “has undergone decade after decade of abuse, for no reason.”

« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 06:47:25 PM by SimonNZ »

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15355 on: February 20, 2019, 06:49:16 PM »
Donald Trump rushing to sell Saudi Arabia nuclear technology

"The administration of President Donald Trump is bypassing the United States Congress to advance the sale of US nuclear power plants to Saudi Arabia, despite concerns it would violate US law guarding against technology transfers, according to a new report by a congressional committee.

Security analysts worry the technology would allow Saudi Arabia to produce nuclear weapons in the future, potentially contributing to an arms race in the Middle East.

US legislators are concerned about the stability of Saudi leadership under Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) because of the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and the war in Yemen.

Multiple unnamed "whistleblowers" have come forward to warn about White House attempts to speed the transfer of highly sensitive US nuclear technology to build new nuclear power plants in Saudi Arabia, according to the staff report by the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

"The whistleblowers who came forward have warned of conflicts of interest among top White House advisers that could implicate federal criminal statutes," Representative Elijah Cummings, the Democrat chairman of the committee, said in a letter to the White House on Tuesday."

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15356 on: February 21, 2019, 05:33:35 AM »

     Trump apparently not familiar with his administration's push for global decriminalization of homosexuality

     No one should be surprised that a government with no center becomes more decentralized. If Trump can't recall instructions he didn't give, how is this different from any other instance where he can't distinguish fact from fiction? One might complain that the government shouldn't operate that way. If so, Trump can't operate as President. He can't control his troops if he can't tell fact from fiction, an obvious point central to the Inaugurpeachment POV. It's an administration of the stupid, corrupt and malicious, at war with everyone who isn't like them. You can't appeal to regular order with this crowd in charge. The disorder comes from them.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15357 on: February 21, 2019, 06:25:02 AM »

     “Modern Monetary Theory” Will Pay for AOC’s Green New Deal

     A lover of liberty attempts to refute MMT by agreeing with it. The poor soul even quotes high priest Murray Rothbard saying...

What makes us rich is an abundance of goods, and what limits that abundance is a scarcity of resources: namely land, labor and capital.

     .....without bothering to notice that this is exactly what MMT says, that a false scarcity of money is not a scarcity of goods and resources in the marketplace.

     
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15358 on: February 21, 2019, 02:24:58 PM »
Republican Mark Harris dropped out of the congressional race in North Carolina's 9th district, saying there should be a new election. He had hired an operative who specializes in voter fraud, using schemes to collect mail-in ballots and change the data entered on them to favor Republican candidates. His son, a lawyer, had warned Harris repeatedly that the guy he hired was a criminal but Harris allowed the election fraud to go forward. Harris held a 900 vote lead over his rival before the election commission challenged the result. I'm waiting for President Spanky to announce a crackdown on voter fraud, since he is so concerned with the issue.

Offline amw

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15359 on: February 21, 2019, 02:41:58 PM »
Not the only guy who stole an election in 2018 but probably the most blatantly criminal one of the lot.

NC-09 is one of the poorest & most heavily exploited in the state, containing large black & indigenous populations who are hung out to dry every time a hurricane hits & suffer from the state’s total subservience to the agriculture industry. They deserve better than an insane Christian dominionist who makes Pence look normal.