Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 905207 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15580 on: March 14, 2019, 02:15:45 AM »
If you actually understood American politics, you would recognize which of those "leftist" agenda item you listed are core paleoconservative ideas. You would understand that Kulinksi is as biased as any Fox News host. You would understand that he only tells the facts favorable to his agenda. 
But you don't. So please stop lecturing us Americans on our politics. Your ideals are (in US terms) leftist.  But thinking there is some deep leftist trend in the US is fantasy.  AOC may be moving the Overton window, but she represents a lot less people than you think she does.

Did you even watch that video? Kulinski criticized AOC for not supporting Ilhan Omar enough/the right way and he is himself the guy who wrote the political agenda behind AOC, he is the co founder of Justice Democrats. Kulinski criticized even Bernie Sanders sometimes! So please stop with the "as biased" as any Fox News host.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:43:10 AM by 71 dB »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15581 on: March 14, 2019, 02:22:41 AM »


I have to say I semi-agree with Trump with this. He just expresses it in a weird way. The training of pilots doesn't keep up with sophistication of planes and we encounter situations where the plane and the pilot work against each other because the pilot doesn't understand completely what is happening.

Sometimes older simpler solutions are better. Not perhaps in planes, but in some stuff.
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Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15582 on: March 14, 2019, 03:41:31 AM »
I have to say I semi-agree with Trump with this. He just expresses it in a weird way.

Surely the "problem" is Trump expresses it like some bore down at a local bar who loves the sound of his own voice.  For sure I wouldn't want to fly on one of these planes at the moment but his response needs to be more measured and considered.  Yet again - leave this to the experts!  Boeing is a massive firm in the US and heaven help them if it turns out there are technical/safety issues but what they do not need is a president weighing in with a - currently - baseless opinion.  Next Trump will be telling us that "no-one knows more about avionics than me".

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15583 on: March 14, 2019, 04:06:26 AM »
Surely the "problem" is Trump expresses it like some bore down at a local bar who loves the sound of his own voice.  For sure I wouldn't want to fly on one of these planes at the moment but his response needs to be more measured and considered.  Yet again - leave this to the experts!  Boeing is a massive firm in the US and heaven help them if it turns out there are technical/safety issues but what they do not need is a president weighing in with a - currently - baseless opinion.  Next Trump will be telling us that "no-one knows more about avionics than me".

Well, that's why I only semi-agree with Trump and I rather read tweets about him not wanting to fly with Einstein than see him attack for example freedom of press or deny the climate change.

I don't think it is about technical issues. I think it's about training. It's easier to sell planes if you say to the buyer there is no need for additional training. Technically safer planes become less safe if the pilots don't know everything. Trump's tweet kind of tries to express that, only translated into MAGAnlish.

Maybe I am too kind to Trump here, but I have started to feel bad for him. He is probably suffering from early stages of dementia and he is the President of the United States. As soon as he is out of office he will be indicted for a lot of crimes. We demand him to care about immigrants so shouldn't we so a little bit empathy in return? Not much, but a little bit? I don't know...
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15584 on: March 14, 2019, 05:45:48 AM »
Maybe I am too kind to Trump here, but I have started to feel bad for him. He is probably suffering from early stages of dementia and he is the President of the United States. As soon as he is out of office he will be indicted for a lot of crimes. We demand him to care about immigrants so shouldn't we so a little bit empathy in return? Not much, but a little bit? I don't know...

No. He's a traitor, a career criminal, and the son of a career criminal. He's skated his whole life. Real justice would be dividing up the proceeds of his and his family's crimes to pay back those he has spent his life ripping off. Then a month or two in a pillory on Times Square to be spat upon by immigrants from every nation on earth and shat upon by pigeons. Then the rest of his life in a cell. 

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15585 on: March 14, 2019, 06:01:18 AM »
     

     In the U.S. an economic agenda that the majority of people support will be called leftist or progressive. A well known political party that opposes what people want appeals to them on the basis of race, religion, abortion and sexual orientation views. Repubs have an unpopular economic agenda for their donors, and a regionally popular social agenda for their voters. For everything else the epithets are used.

     Calling ideas associated with self described progressives paleo-conservative or libertarian should call attention to how little the epithets have to do with fixed positions. How progressive are the 8 hour day, child labor laws, Social Security, bank regulation, food and drug safety regs, government investments in just about everything the economy is built on? Does being labeled progressive tell you anything about whether we should "repeal and replace" these programs?

     By some measures I'm a progressive and others I'm not. So what? I'm aware that people will ascribe degrees of progressiveness to new program proposals and make bold claims about the super importance of the epithets. I insist that conversations about who's a socialist or a progressive are not conversations about the merits of the programs themselves.

     If I oppose programs conservatives offer it will have more to do with what's in the programs than what's in the label. While I recognize the labels do have meaning in the political realm and use them myself I try to keep distinct the use of the labels for political groupings and the misuse of them as substitutes for critical analysis of programs.
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Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15586 on: March 14, 2019, 06:13:08 AM »
Did you even watch that video? Kulinski criticized AOC for not supporting Ilhan Omar enough/the right way and he is himself the guy who wrote the political agenda behind AOC, he is the co founder of Justice Democrats. Kulinski criticized even Bernie Sanders sometimes! So please stop with the "as biased" as any Fox News host.

That's just it.  Kulinski is a leftist, and is advocating leftism. You agree with his positions, so you treat his advocacy as fact, when it is merely opinion.

That you don't recognize this shows how little you know about American politics.

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15587 on: March 14, 2019, 06:15:51 AM »
     
A well known political party that opposes what people want appeals to them on the basis of race, religion, abortion and sexual orientation views.

Which describes the Democrats just as much as the Republicans.

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15588 on: March 14, 2019, 07:39:16 AM »
Which describes the Democrats just as much as the Republicans.

    That would have to be the case, yes, Dems are mostly on the other side of the social issues. The nature of Dem inclusiveness is an unavoidable fact about their coalition that is getting more representation in the political leadership. Repub exclusion is mirrored by Dem inclusion. The parties define themselves that way.

   
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Offline André

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15589 on: March 14, 2019, 08:30:46 AM »
No. He's a traitor, a career criminal, and the son of a career criminal. He's skated his whole life. Real justice would be dividing up the proceeds of his and his family's crimes to pay back those he has spent his life ripping off. Then a month or two in a pillory on Times Square to be spat upon by immigrants from every nation on earth and shat upon by pigeons. Then the rest of his life in a cell.

Isn’t the pigeon thing a cruel and unusual punishment ?

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15590 on: March 14, 2019, 08:34:57 AM »
I have to say I semi-agree with Trump with this. He just expresses it in a weird way. The training of pilots doesn't keep up with sophistication of planes and we encounter situations where the plane and the pilot work against each other because the pilot doesn't understand completely what is happening.


What are you basing this opinion on?

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15591 on: March 14, 2019, 09:30:05 AM »
Is aviation included in Trump's calls for deregulation?

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15592 on: March 14, 2019, 09:47:54 AM »

     
What are you basing this opinion on?

     That's what some pilots say. There is a feature that allows pilots to disable the system that forces the nose down and crashes the plane, but the instruction manual doesn't make it clear how to use it. 71dB is correct that the training is inadequate, though there may be other things wrong too.
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Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15593 on: March 14, 2019, 09:51:27 AM »
I have to say I semi-agree with Trump with this. He just expresses it in a weird way. The training of pilots doesn't keep up with sophistication of planes and we encounter situations where the plane and the pilot work against each other because the pilot doesn't understand completely what is happening.

Sometimes older simpler solutions are better. Not perhaps in planes, but in some stuff.

Given the choice I also find myself preferring a simple solution. I find myself astonished that people want to outfit their homes so that they turn on the lights by issuing commands to their 'digital assistant' rather than flipping a switch. I'm especially irked by computer interfaces that guess what I want to do and make it harder for me to override them to do what I actually want to do.

But that has nothing to do with this latest drivel from Trump. I didn't strike me as reflecting any wisdom. It was the opining of a grouchy old man who has no actual knowledge of the subject. It is the sort of thing that should be muttered while waiting on line at MacDonalds, not a statement to the public by the President. A President is supposed to solicit the advice of people with expertise then make a decision based on that knowledge, his core values and the interests of the public. He is not supposed to make decisions based on his vague, uninformed notions and a desire to pander to his "base."

It is entirely appropriate for aircraft to become more automated. Pilot error used to be a common cause of crashes, and automation has made aviation much, much safer than it used to be. This is a case where Boeing screwed up badly and they were more concerned with the legal and financial implications of admitting the problem than the possibility that more people would be killed. And Trump let his pal at Boeing drive his decision, until the public outcry became intolerable.

The value of the system in question is controvertible. The most common form of pilot error is pulling the nose too high, disrupting airflow over the wings and killing lift. Then the plane drops like a stone. Systems to detect and prevent this error make perfect sense. A few years ago an Air France plane crashed into the Atlantic when the plane hit turbulent air and an airspeed indicator malfunctioned. The pilot's instinct was to gain altitude by pulling up the nose but they stalled the plane. They were still trying to pull up the nose when the plane hit the water. This system would have prevented that.

The insidious thing is that once a plane has stalled it is very hard to recover, so aggressive action is warranted to prevent a stall. The way to escape from a stall is to nose the plane down, restore airflow over the wings, then pull up. Maybe that's what the software was trying to do, even though the plain hadn't stalled. Unless you are at high altitude to begin with, you might have already hit the ground before you've completed that maneuver.

The problem seems to be that the system does not detect and appropriately react to faulty instrument readings, it engages itself even when the pilot thinks he or she is in control of the plane and can only be disabled by an arcane procedure that pilots are not adequately trained on.

This is the sort of thing we can look forward to when cars are self-driving. Accidents will be much less frequent, but every once in a while there will be a failure and a dramatic crash in a situation where a driver would have had no difficulty. People will notice the dramatic failures and not notice that crashes have become much more rare.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:00:36 AM by Ghost of Baron Scarpia »

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15594 on: March 14, 2019, 09:54:54 AM »
That's just it.  Kulinski is a leftist, and is advocating leftism. You agree with his positions, so you treat his advocacy as fact, when it is merely opinion.

That you don't recognize this shows how little you know about American politics.

Kulinski is a leftist looked through the Overton window positioned far right. If the Overton window was where it should be, Kulinski would look pretty centrist. Kyle Kulinski is a prime example of someone who bases his opinions on facts and he can defend his positions very well. In Politicon 2018 Scottie Nell Hughes was the only one brave enough to debate Kyle Kulinski:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_0H-8b_aSco" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_0H-8b_aSco</a>

The video is 55 minutes so I don't expect you to suffer that much, but if you are curious...

He advocates leftism because what he represent is labeled leftist in the US. He advocated it to make the US better. To remove money on politics to restore democracy instead of current oligarchy. To give people healthcare like every other developped country. To give all Americans equal opportunities (not equal outcomes) with tuition free education. To legalize, tax and regulate drugs to minimize drug related problems in society, to end unnecessory wars and directing half of the military budget on the infrastructure in the US and so on. To make life better for most Americans. You maybe think it's a bad thing to advocate something that benefits most Americans. I don't. I think that's what any sane and democratic society should be doing.

Maybe before Trump won and I didn't pay that much attention to American politics I was as clueless as you think I am today, but it seems it's you who hasn't been paying attention.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 09:56:53 AM by 71 dB »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15595 on: March 14, 2019, 10:58:55 AM »
No. He's a traitor, a career criminal, and the son of a career criminal. He's skated his whole life. Real justice would be dividing up the proceeds of his and his family's crimes to pay back those he has spent his life ripping off. Then a month or two in a pillory on Times Square to be spat upon by immigrants from every nation on earth and shat upon by pigeons. Then the rest of his life in a cell.

I know I know. I hope you understand what I mean.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15596 on: March 14, 2019, 11:04:15 AM »
Isn’t the pigeon thing a cruel and unusual punishment ?

Well, Trumps wants waterboarding and "much worse" while spitting on the constitution and it's amendments so pigeons would be only poetic justice.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15597 on: March 14, 2019, 11:08:20 AM »
What are you basing this opinion on?

At this point on hunch. A Finnish aviation expert commented these accidents saying this. Maybe he is right, maybe he is not.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15598 on: March 14, 2019, 11:10:23 AM »
Is aviation included in Trump's calls for deregulation?

Don't know, but all pilots named Einstein will be FIRED!!  >:D
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15599 on: March 14, 2019, 11:19:48 AM »
     
     That's what some pilots say. There is a feature that allows pilots to disable the system that forces the nose down and crashes the plane, but the instruction manual doesn't make it clear how to use it. 71dB is correct that the training is inadequate, though there may be other things wrong too.

Yes. I think the Finnish aviation expert mentioned a dirty speedometer can cause problems like this.
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