Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 229469 times)

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4700 on: August 13, 2017, 05:04:20 AM »
Unlike El Tupé, Rich Lowry somehow does not explicitly add . . .

Ted Cruz does not mince words about Charlottesville
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4701 on: August 13, 2017, 05:07:42 AM »
That said, is it the vacuous "thoughts and prayers" all over again?
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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4702 on: August 13, 2017, 05:21:12 AM »
That said, is it the vacuous "thoughts and prayers" all over again?

Anyone can say that, in particular, the non-religious.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4703 on: August 13, 2017, 06:01:13 AM »
Terrorism never happens in Sweden, yeah, right!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/world/europe/sweden-terror-attack.html

The attacker mowed a truck into a crowd on Friday afternoon, killing four people and wounding 15 others...prosecutors identified the driver of the truck as Rakhmat Akilov, 39, an Uzbek whose application for asylum was rejected last year.

You actually ARE reading impaired, I thought it was just my imagination. Specifically, the 'act of terror' which that person condemned as having "happened last night in Sweden" never happened at all. As in:

Feb. 19, 2017 NYT
Quote
LONDON — Swedes reacted with confusion, anger and ridicule on Sunday to a vague remark by President Trump that suggested that something terrible had occurred in their country.

During a campaign-style rally on Saturday in Florida, Mr. Trump issued a sharp if discursive attack on refugee policies in Europe, ticking off a list of places that have been hit by terrorists.

“You look at what’s happening,” he told his supporters. “We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this?

Not the Swedes.

Nothing particularly nefarious happened in Sweden on Friday — or Saturday, for that matter — and Swedes were left baffled.


Now, look at what happened in Charlottesville VA yesterday. A White Supremacist drove his vehicle into a crowd of people who were protesting their "rally" and killed at least 3 of them. Well, I guess that's OK. If it had been a Muslim, we would have been treated to a 2 hour diatribe against them.

I did know you could be counted on though, glad to have something reliable these days.

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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4704 on: August 13, 2017, 06:19:37 AM »
You actually ARE reading impaired, I thought it was just my imagination. Specifically, the 'act of terror' which that person condemned as having "happened last night in Sweden" never happened at all. As in:

Feb. 19, 2017 NYT

Now, look at what happened in Charlottesville VA yesterday. A White Supremacist drove his vehicle into a crowd of people who were protesting their "rally" and killed at least 3 of them. Well, I guess that's OK. If it had been a Muslim, we would have been treated to a 2 hour diatribe against them.

I did know you could be counted on though, glad to have something reliable these days.

8)

I agree completely with the sentiments. It should be noted, however, that two of the deaths were the result of a helicopter crash, state police patrolling the protests from above. One person was killed by the terrorist and a number seriously injured.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 06:21:21 AM by BasilValentine »

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4705 on: August 13, 2017, 06:45:53 AM »
You actually ARE reading impaired, I thought it was just my imagination. Specifically, the 'act of terror' which that person condemned as having "happened last night in Sweden" never happened at all.

No, I am not reading impaired. I can't stand it when there is some disagreement, the default mode is to insult. I am aware that the ramming event happened after Trump's comment which can be prescient at best, but plenty s**t was/is happening in Sweden (rape) and in Europe by terrorist "refugees".

Now, look at what happened in Charlottesville VA yesterday. A White Supremacist drove his vehicle into a crowd of people who were protesting their "rally" and killed at least 3 of them. Well, I guess that's OK. If it had been a Muslim, we would have been treated to a 2 hour diatribe against them.

This is the first and only that an Aryan supremacist made a ramming attack. Compared to that, they have been going on in Israel for some years. As usually happens with this sort of thing, there are copycat attacks, exactly what happened in Nice, Sweden and London. Terrorist incidents occur with such frequently that it is hard to keep up with them and remember what happened when. So in a general sense Trump was right but the particulars in that case were in error.
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Offline Turner

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4706 on: August 13, 2017, 07:17:14 AM »
No, I am not reading impaired. I can't stand it when there is some disagreement, the default mode is to insult. I am aware that the ramming event happened after Trump's comment which can be prescient at best, but plenty s**t was/is happening in Sweden (rape) and in Europe by terrorist "refugees".

This is the first and only that an Aryan supremacist made a ramming attack. Compared to that, they have been going on in Israel for some years. As usually happens with this sort of thing, there are copycat attacks, exactly what happened in Nice, Sweden and London. Terrorist incidents occur with such frequently that it is hard to keep up with them and remember what happened when. So in a general sense Trump was right but the particulars in that case were in error.

It was not an "error", it was a staged lie.

You keep repeating the issue of Sweden as the rape centre of Europe, which is stated by rightwing media again and again, and which, as has been said here before, is wrong.

The reasons are these:
1) that Sweden for example had a record-high, 3-4 times more cases of reported rapes than for example neighbouring Denmark, is because Sweden has a different law system, facilitating a much wider definition of rape. The number of reported cases quickly quadrupled, when this new definition was initiated in 2005. And a considerable increase can be noticed in Denmark from 2015 to 2016 based on a somewhat similar widening of rape definition.
2) There are 3 layers of sexual harassment that are considered rape in Sweden. The lowest level, counting as rape, is that of uttering any verbal threats prior to sex. Taking advantage of a person influenced by alcohol or drugs is considered rape as well.
3) Besides the wider definition of rape, in a series of sexual assaults, each one is counted as a separate case, and thus a part of statistics
4) the women´s right movement is unusually strong in Sweden (it is often ranked no.1 as regards women equality), there is much openness about sexual life, and police is giving the subject a lot of ressources

I´m referring to a reliable and in depth source in my country, and the conclusion is that if they used the same definition and law-set, the number of rapes in Denmark and Sweden would be quite the same. Denmark has an average of less than 20 per 100,000 inhabitants annually, whereas the Swedish is a bit less than 70
https://www.mm.dk/svensk-vold/

You can see a comparison of statistics here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/media/File:Rape_rate_per_100,000_-_country_comparison_-_United_Nations_2012.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/media/File:(A)_Rape_rates_per_100000_population_2010-2012,_world.jpg

showing that the Danish level (less than 20) is lower than the US level (more than 25). Again, statistics and definitions are difficult to compare immediately, however.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 07:23:55 AM by Turner »

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4707 on: August 13, 2017, 07:28:24 AM »
It was not an "error", it was a staged lie.

Why would he lie about something like that?

The core of white supremacy, KKK, doesn't like Blacks, Jews (Trump's son-in-law and daughter) or Catholics. 

Oh, I forgot to mention the Dec. 16th truck ramming of the Berlin Christmas market, 12 dead, 56 injured.

You should really contact the organizers of the Bråvalla music festival and tell them there is nothing to worry about, so they should not cancel next year's event:

https://www.thelocal.se/20170701/swedish-music-festival-cancels-next-years-event-amid-rape-reports
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Offline Turner

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4708 on: August 13, 2017, 07:46:00 AM »
Why would he lie about something like that?

You should really contact the organizers of the Bråvalla music festival and tell them there is nothing to worry about, so they should not cancel next year's event:

https://www.thelocal.se/20170701/swedish-music-festival-cancels-next-years-event-amid-rape-reports

Does he seem particularly interested in avoiding lies? Sweden is a terrifying commie example for the uninformed.

I was in Sweden when they announced that about Bråvalla. Some people are praising the closure as a means of sending a signal towards sexual and physical violence, others giving a critique that it could be an excuse due to poor management and especially economy for a number of years. This debate is going on in Swedish newspapers.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 07:50:06 AM by Turner »

Offline nodogen

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4709 on: August 13, 2017, 08:12:47 AM »
Just to state the obvious: trump isn't keen to criticise fascists because he is a fascist.

Let the apologists deny this truth.


America is moving rapidly to the right it seems to me, which will of course have catastrophic consequences, in Ameica and globally.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4710 on: August 13, 2017, 08:14:29 AM »
I'm sorry, does the "he" in the question "Why would he lie about something like that?" refer to El Tupé?

Is that the most disingenuous question on the thread to date?
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4711 on: August 13, 2017, 08:16:34 AM »
Why would he lie about something like that?

Tis the question we all ask ourselves once every two days or so, when the next one comes out.

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4712 on: August 13, 2017, 08:22:01 AM »
Is that the most disingenuous question on the thread to date?

Oh sure, only a silly woman would ask a question like that.
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4713 on: August 13, 2017, 08:23:34 AM »
Just to state the obvious: trump isn't keen to criticise fascists because he is a fascist.

Let the apologists deny this truth.


America is moving rapidly to the right it seems to me, which will of course have catastrophic consequences, in Ameica and globally.

This morning Trump had a second chance and blew it, "condemning all forms of violence" while failing to even distance himself from David Duke's claims that the white supremacist protest was launched in furtherance of Trump's agenda to "take the country back." Can't alienate the Klan and Nazi contingents of his voting base, after all.

Oh sure, only a silly woman would ask a question like that.
Some things you don't lie about because they can be easily checked. Ergo, it was a mistake

Seriously? Trump has told hundreds of lies that were easily fact checked. He doesn't care because he is pretty sure his supporters (ahem) will repeat them without fact checking. He doesn't have a great deal of respect for his supporters.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:30:32 AM by BasilValentine »

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4714 on: August 13, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »
Oh sure, only a silly woman would ask a question like that.
Some things you don't lie about because they can be easily checked. Ergo, it was a mistake

No, in Trump's case, he's just a pathological liar for whom facts are irrelevant.  He will give his version of events regardless of how easily debunked it is, and call anyone who presents the truth deceitful or fake because they disagree.

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4715 on: August 13, 2017, 08:29:47 AM »
Why would he lie about something like that?

The core of white supremacy, KKK, doesn't like Blacks, Jews (Trump's son-in-law and daughter) or Catholics. 

Oh, I forgot to mention the Dec. 16th truck ramming of the Berlin Christmas market, 12 dead, 56 injured.

You should really contact the organizers of the Bråvalla music festival and tell them there is nothing to worry about, so they should not cancel next year's event:

https://www.thelocal.se/20170701/swedish-music-festival-cancels-next-years-event-amid-rape-reports

Rather than thinking that I insult you, you should consider the frustration you bring out in anyone who tries to discuss anything with you, when you go off on wild rhetorical branches. Trump didn't talk about the Berlin Christmas Market, although it would have been so easy. That's the whole point: when you wanted to refute me, you spent 30 seconds on Google and found some valid incidents and presented them. When Trump wanted to do the same, he just made shit up. He's the President, dammit, he should be above that sort of thing. As it turns out, he isn't above anything at all. Maybe that doesn't embarrass you, I don't even know if you are an American,  but I like to see at least a little bit of freaking integrity in POTUS. And I haven't yet. I doubt I will. The bar is so low and yet he still can't get over it. :-\

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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4716 on: August 13, 2017, 08:36:51 AM »
The only surprise to me was that it took 7 months till the first death.
Sadly, there will be more, much more, violence.

Unfortunately, I agree with this part of your post.
Terror has a habit of spawning more terror. The recent history of "skyjacking" started in 1968, in which gets one used to the concept. One feels lucky if not actually being killed in the process.
So much of Europe's terror attacks usually had Israeli precedents like knifing pedestrians, suicide bombing and recently vehicle ramming.
I mention this because wacko individuals and institutions also are affected by what society is forced to accept or otherwise, sees that there are little protections and even fewer consequences. Politicians and journalists tend to explain away or cover up. They become as much acclimated to them as we are.
Timothy McVeigh was affected by the Waco massacre. I don't know what excuse Anders Breivik had but he probably knew already he would not get the death penalty.
Quite frankly IMO, there is not enough outrage over these incidents. The latest car ramming in VA is disgusting but doesn't come out of a void.
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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4717 on: August 13, 2017, 08:37:57 AM »
Rather than thinking that I insult you, you should consider the frustration you bring out in anyone who tries to discuss anything with you, when you go off on wild rhetorical branches. Trump didn't talk about the Berlin Christmas Market, although it would have been so easy. That's the whole point: when you wanted to refute me, you spent 30 seconds on Google and found some valid incidents and presented them. When Trump wanted to do the same, he just made shit up. He's the President, dammit, he should be above that sort of thing. As it turns out, he isn't above anything at all. Maybe that doesn't embarrass you, I don't even know if you are an American,  but I like to see at least a little bit of freaking integrity in POTUS. And I haven't yet. I doubt I will. The bar is so low and yet he still can't get over it. :-\


Yawn!
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4718 on: August 13, 2017, 08:45:43 AM »
Yawn!

Of course, if my leader was Netanyahu, Trump wouldn't be nearly the embarrassment by comparison.  ::)

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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #4719 on: August 13, 2017, 09:37:06 AM »
Of course, if my leader was Netanyahu, Trump wouldn't be nearly the embarrassment by comparison.  ::)

8)

No, Bibi knows how to speak intelligently.  He seems to have the morals of Donnie Trump Jr., but at least he knows that people are not to be insulted at random.

I think Trump's vacous statement is a prime example of his inability to be articulate and think coherently.  In part, I think he believes it is obvious he is not a fascistic hatemonger, that all the accusations of such are simply claims made for partisan purposes, popularized by a media that opposes him, and that the truth that the claims are wrong should be immediately obvious.  That his own actions and his choice of staff give credibility to those claims and that the truth is nowhere near as obvious as he thinks it is, apparently is something that he can not comprehend.

What he should have said is something like this

These displays of hate and violence are wrong, period.  They're wrong when done in the name of white nationalism and American patriotism, they're wrong when they are done in the name of opposing fascism and bigotry.  They're wrong when done by white supremacists waving Nazi and Confederate banners, they're wrong when done by antifas dressed in black and hiding behind masks and bandanas. Nothing excuses any of the violence which was committed in Charlottesville today.  I want to take America back from the elites who have festered in  positions of power, but I don't want to do it just for whites.  I want take America back for all Americas, white, black, brown,  and every other color in the rainbow.

But he couldn't, which is a good illustration of what's wrong with him as POTUS.


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