Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 601218 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6940 on: November 13, 2017, 06:33:18 AM »
Russia’s mark: A dangerous fool for a president

Quote from: Jennifer Rubin
[El Presidente Tupé’s] authoritarianism, narcissism and racism threaten our democracy, but his gullibility threatens our national security. A man so uneducated and incurious about the world is willing, like his followers, to buy any crackpot conspiracy theory that makes its way to him via the Infowars-“Fox & Friends” pipeline. On the world stage, that makes him a sitting duck for slick manipulators and experienced flatterers.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6941 on: November 13, 2017, 06:48:27 AM »
Russia’s mark: A dangerous fool for a president

Could [El Tupé] actually believe that the ex-KGB operative is insulted by the accusation he pulled off a masterful plot, at very little cost, to tip the scales in an American presidential election and get the candidate of his choice? Certainly, [El Tupé] is not only gullible but also running scared as special counsel Robert S. Mueller III breathes down his neck.

Feeling better and better, this Monday morning.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6942 on: November 13, 2017, 06:50:05 AM »
[El Tupé] and his followers are willing to believe anything because they want to believe anything that confirms their counterfactual world.

Have to admit, we have seen that in operation on this very thread.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6943 on: November 13, 2017, 08:04:56 AM »


It's just so unfair to use the shortened title "AmPo".  AmPo reports the straight scoop on all subjects. 

     From the Intercept:

The provision seeks to turn over federal procurement of commercial off-the-shelf items, a $53 billion market, to e-commerce portals. And with Amazon as the runaway leader in that space, critics say that even with the modifications, the provision still favors the online retail giant, giving it a pathway to billions of dollars in new revenue.

     Any procurement plan will be advantageous to Amazon. Is this an antitrust issue? If antitrust is not the reason to steer purchasing away from Amazon, what would the reason be?

     Is Amazon getting too big?

     
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Offline Todd

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6945 on: November 13, 2017, 08:33:32 AM »
Hey, I learnt that Ivanka is discussing tax reform via the Washington Post.  Gotta be special.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6946 on: November 13, 2017, 08:34:07 AM »
Could [El Tupé] actually believe that the ex-KGB operative is insulted by the accusation he pulled off a masterful plot, at very little cost, to tip the scales in an American presidential election and get the candidate of his choice? Certainly, [El Tupé] is not only gullible but also running scared as special counsel Robert S. Mueller III breathes down his neck.

Feeling better and better, this Monday morning.

If you believe the U.S. intelligence service it is a no-brainer that Russia tried to tip the scales away from Hilary. It is reported that Russian agents breached both the DNC and RNC email systems, but only leaked damaging information from the DNC system.

But there is a long way from that to "collusion." Maybe the Trump campaign was glad that Russia was helping them, which is reprehensible. But illegal? Unless the Trump campaign aided the Russian intelligence service I don't see collusion. And what help could the Trump campaign give to Russian hackers? Maybe you could say that the Trump campaign knew of the Russian actions and did not report them. But it already was widely known at the time.

The tragedy is that Trump's base doesn't even care that agents of a hostile foreign power interfered in a U.S. federal election as long as their guy benefited. It shows how debased the American political system is.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 08:41:57 AM by Scarpia »

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6947 on: November 13, 2017, 08:56:55 AM »
If you believe the U.S. intelligence service it is a no-brainer that Russia tried to tip the scales away from Hilary. It is reported that Russian agents breached both the DNC and RNC email systems, but only leaked damaging information from the DNC system.

But there is a long way from that to "collusion."

Sure.  But regardless of how the question of collusion plays out, there is the question of national security (something which even Republicans used to care about—hang on, wasn't that why there was all the indignation about the e-mail server?)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6948 on: November 13, 2017, 08:57:57 AM »
Meanwhile:

The Republican mentality that enables [El Presidente Tupé] because of [fill in the blank — the Supreme Court, tax reform, etc.] despite his obvious unfitness for office and still defends him with “But Neil Gorsuch!” or “But a 20 percent corporate tax rate!” inevitably leads Republicans to defend and excuse Republican Alabama Senate nominee Roy Moore’s alleged child sexual predation. If the only thing that matters is holding power, then anything is acceptable, including electing a senator accused by four different women of inappropriate sexual advances when they were teenagers (accounts that were supported by some 30 interviews). Having justified [El Tupé’s] immoral, dangerous and dishonest behavior — not to mention replete evidence of temperamental unwellness — Republicans have put out the welcome mat for any monster with an “R” after his name. We should not have been surprised to see the monstrous efforts to defend Moore.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6949 on: November 13, 2017, 08:58:57 AM »
Funny.  Both Russia and the US have been attempting to influence foreign elections for a long, long time.  This entire story is being hyped for reasons other than a threat to our democracy.  Cough, cough ... the health of our democracy.

Yes, the U.S. has long influenced foreign elections by killing one of the candidates.  I wonder what Trump supporters would have thought if Hillary Clinton had come down with Polonium poisoning.

I am not concerned with whether the story is being "hyped." I am concerned with what happened. It is not a matter of simply putting trash on Facebook. Anyone who thinks facebook is a place to get news is a moron anyway. They breached data systems of U.S. political institutions. That is a serious violation of law. Law enforcement is supposed to be non-political. You are not supposed to decide that Russian hacking of DNC servers is ok because you want the Democrats to loose.

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6950 on: November 13, 2017, 09:27:38 AM »
Funny.  Both Russia and the US have been attempting to influence foreign elections for a long, long time.  This entire story is being hyped for reasons other than a threat to our democracy.  Cough, cough ... the health of our democracy.

     The story is more important than what you think it's being hyped for. Assume partisans hype a story, I certainly do. There is still a story, something to find out and something to do about it. The administration has done nothing to prepare for ongoing interference in U.S. elections. One story is how they may have benefited from past interference, but that's not the only story worth covering. Not protecting against future interference is a story, too.

     Our allies are worried about Russian interference in elections, not U.S. interference. I wonder if the paralysis in the WH paralyzes the non-Mueller DOJ. Must they leave it to Mueller to discover the reasons we won't respond? It should concern everyone that the Trumpists are pushing a bogus theory of widespread voter fraud while ignoring a real problem.

Quote
2nd, I doubt anything the Russians did was anything close to a deciding factor in the last election.


     Though I think ultimately Russian propaganda appealed most to those already convinced, I do appreciate that if we don't harden out election system interference might be more effective the next time. But let's not assume Russia is trying to elect moles. That will be hard. The chief goal is to create chaos and legitimize democratic government. Trump kind of fell into their lap.
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6951 on: November 13, 2017, 09:34:47 AM »
Meanwhile:

The Republican mentality that enables [El Presidente Tupé] because of [fill in the blank — the Supreme Court, tax reform, etc.] despite his obvious unfitness for office and still defends him with “But Neil Gorsuch!” or “But a 20 percent corporate tax rate!” inevitably leads Republicans to defend and excuse Republican Alabama Senate nominee Roy Moore’s alleged child sexual predation. If the only thing that matters is holding power, then anything is acceptable, including electing a senator accused by four different women of inappropriate sexual advances when they were teenagers (accounts that were supported by some 30 interviews). Having justified [El Tupé’s] immoral, dangerous and dishonest behavior — not to mention replete evidence of temperamental unwellness — Republicans have put out the welcome mat for any monster with an “R” after his name. We should not have been surprised to see the monstrous efforts to defend Moore.

Maybe they should say "But liberals like Shakespeare, and Juliet was about 12!"  That bullet-proof logic should hold.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6952 on: November 13, 2017, 10:37:30 AM »
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6953 on: November 13, 2017, 12:12:47 PM »
A fun op-ed from the Graun: We're still aghast at Donald Trump – but what good has that done?

I do like this phrase: "high-decibel moral aghastitude".

There are many written equivalents of that from the moral preeners on this forum.  It is all so much cheap entertainment.
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Offline eljr

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6954 on: November 13, 2017, 12:38:09 PM »
Obviously, democratic leaders have to engage in diplomacy, holding their noses, doing the necessary. If Mao asks you to play ping-pong with him, maybe you do. But democratic leaders, especially the American president, stand for something abroad.

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6955 on: November 13, 2017, 01:00:08 PM »
Mitch McConnell and Jeb! have both called for Roy Moore to step down. That should be enough to propel Moore to victory, if any propulsion was necessary.

Offline amw

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6956 on: November 13, 2017, 01:09:08 PM »
Mitch McConnell and Jeb! have both called for Roy Moore to step down. That should be enough to propel Moore to victory, if any propulsion was necessary.
Please clap.

(There’s talk of Gov Ivey and McConnell collaborating to expel Moore and install Sessions. That would also get approval from the White House because Trump could then appoint a new AG to fire Mueller. The lawsuits resulting from that should be interesting though.)

(Also, even if Doug Jones wins, McConnell thinks he’s beatable in 2020 and is expecting to pick up more seats in 2018. We’ll see if that actually happens: among vulnerable Dems only Claire McCaskill and Joe Donnelly have picked up serious challengers so far, and McCaskill is getting some equally serious fundraising done. If the Dems can hold onto all their seats and bring in Jones, Jacky Rosen & Kyrsten Sinema, McConnell is back down to minority leader. He might find that position more to his liking though, less pressure to get anything done)

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6957 on: November 13, 2017, 01:47:51 PM »
I started watching the Ken Burns Vietnam War series.  The US lost any claim to the moral high ground a long time ago.  Of course, I consider all governments evil.

    That evades responsibility for choosing the ground. Wingdings cast blame, the regular people you sneer at try to find solutions and maybe reach the high ground on occasion. Thanks for your help.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6958 on: November 13, 2017, 02:06:52 PM »
     Thomas Frank on aghastness:

But the parade of the aghast is also sharply limited. In the race to depict Trump in the worst possible light, the parade of the aghast conceives his iniquity to be a thing unique and unprecedented.

In certain ways, of course, this is correct: Trump’s incompetence is one-of-a-kind. He is also the first tycoon president, the realization of a long-running Republican dream that has brought with it many unforeseen conflicts of interest and constitutional issues. And if it turns out he colluded with the Russian government during last year’s election, that will make him, shall we say, singular.

Yet in other ways, Trump’s sins are continuous with the last 50 years of our history. His bigotry and racist dog-whistling? Conservatives have been doing that since forever. His vain obsession with ratings, his strutting braggadocio? Welcome to the land of Hollywood and pro wrestling.


     I agree. Trump even brought a fascist film producer into the WH as an adviser.

     A Fifth Woman Accuses Senate Candidate Roy Moore of Sexual Misconduct

     Trump has more accusers, he wins.

     
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6959 on: November 13, 2017, 02:19:12 PM »
I started watching the Ken Burns Vietnam War series.  The US lost any claim to the moral high ground a long time ago.  Of course, I consider all governments evil.
Do you mean all US governments, or that all governments worldwide represent equal amounts of evilness per se?

 

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