Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 265772 times)

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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6940 on: November 11, 2017, 08:21:11 AM »

     How to explain the surprisingly strong Obamacare signups

Nonstop coverage in the media on the law’s assault — including the premium increases — has led some consumers to simply assume health care would be unobtainable.

But on the other hand, a curious Streisand effect may take some credit for the initial success, though as Lodes notes, it’s too early to tell. The Streisand effect is when someone tries to hide or suppress something and accidentally creates publicity through those efforts. (For Barbra Streisand, it was trying to suppress photos of her mansion.)


     Repubs broadcast as loud as they could "OCare is dead! Don't even bother looking behind the curtain!", so people did and guess what? They found the real ObamaCare, not the propaganda version. Repubs managed not only to fail at death spiraling health care, they are boosting it.

     
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Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6941 on: November 11, 2017, 08:27:55 AM »
The Graun is starting to get it: After a year of Trump, good news for Europe – he doesn’t care about us.  Time to reshape (or kill) transatlanticism.

Also from the Graun: Ain't Mikey cute? 
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Turner

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6942 on: November 11, 2017, 08:54:26 AM »
Putin's spokesman Peskov now says that the question of Russian meddling didn't come up at all in the conversation, Trump refers to, according to Businessinsider.
No matter what, there's no doubt that Trump is thinking a lot about his base in his statements.


The wonders of current politics ...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 09:00:14 AM by Turner »

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6943 on: November 11, 2017, 01:03:51 PM »
Putin's spokesman Peskov now says that the question of Russian meddling didn't come up at all in the conversation, Trump refers to, according to Businessinsider.
No matter what, there's no doubt that Trump is thinking a lot about his base in his statements.

He has always been only a TV celebrity, playing to his fans.  So much for being President of all the people.
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Offline Spineur

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6944 on: November 12, 2017, 11:07:39 AM »
Maybe he is being manipulated by Xi as well.  Does China really want a denuclearized Korean peninsula ?  Do they have the faintest clue how to get to that point ?  In asia people say things to please their guest/host.  They rarely mean it litterally.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/former-intelligence-officials-say-trump-is-being-manipulated-by-putin-idUSKBN1DC0TV
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Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6945 on: November 12, 2017, 07:23:11 PM »
AmPo reports on the National Defense Authorization Act: Senate and House negotiators strike defense bill deal that outspends Trump  OK, so DOD gets more money.  But AmPo left something out.  (I did a search for the last 60 days on amendments to the bill, and didn't find anything pertaining to this subject.)

From The Hill: Monopoly critics decry ‘Amazon amendment’

(Dig this bit about a Representative from the State of Washington - which is a coincidence, I'm sure:

Another member of the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Rick Larsen (D-Wash.), offered a more pointed defense of Section 801.

“This isn’t about Amazon, although Amazon lobbied for it. It’s about trying to create online space for purchasing so that [the Department of Defense] can get something for value,” Larsen argued.
")

From The Intercept: Congress Prepares to Send Major Gift to Amazon, While Trump Battles “Amazon Washington Post”

It's just so unfair to use the shortened title "AmPo".  AmPo reports the straight scoop on all subjects. 
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6947 on: November 13, 2017, 06:33:18 AM »
Russia’s mark: A dangerous fool for a president

Quote from: Jennifer Rubin
[El Presidente Tupé’s] authoritarianism, narcissism and racism threaten our democracy, but his gullibility threatens our national security. A man so uneducated and incurious about the world is willing, like his followers, to buy any crackpot conspiracy theory that makes its way to him via the Infowars-“Fox & Friends” pipeline. On the world stage, that makes him a sitting duck for slick manipulators and experienced flatterers.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6948 on: November 13, 2017, 06:48:27 AM »
Russia’s mark: A dangerous fool for a president

Could [El Tupé] actually believe that the ex-KGB operative is insulted by the accusation he pulled off a masterful plot, at very little cost, to tip the scales in an American presidential election and get the candidate of his choice? Certainly, [El Tupé] is not only gullible but also running scared as special counsel Robert S. Mueller III breathes down his neck.

Feeling better and better, this Monday morning.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6949 on: November 13, 2017, 06:50:05 AM »
[El Tupé] and his followers are willing to believe anything because they want to believe anything that confirms their counterfactual world.

Have to admit, we have seen that in operation on this very thread.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6950 on: November 13, 2017, 08:04:56 AM »


It's just so unfair to use the shortened title "AmPo".  AmPo reports the straight scoop on all subjects. 

     From the Intercept:

The provision seeks to turn over federal procurement of commercial off-the-shelf items, a $53 billion market, to e-commerce portals. And with Amazon as the runaway leader in that space, critics say that even with the modifications, the provision still favors the online retail giant, giving it a pathway to billions of dollars in new revenue.

     Any procurement plan will be advantageous to Amazon. Is this an antitrust issue? If antitrust is not the reason to steer purchasing away from Amazon, what would the reason be?

     Is Amazon getting too big?

     
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Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6952 on: November 13, 2017, 08:33:32 AM »
Hey, I learnt that Ivanka is discussing tax reform via the Washington Post.  Gotta be special.
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Offline Scarpia

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6953 on: November 13, 2017, 08:34:07 AM »
Could [El Tupé] actually believe that the ex-KGB operative is insulted by the accusation he pulled off a masterful plot, at very little cost, to tip the scales in an American presidential election and get the candidate of his choice? Certainly, [El Tupé] is not only gullible but also running scared as special counsel Robert S. Mueller III breathes down his neck.

Feeling better and better, this Monday morning.

If you believe the U.S. intelligence service it is a no-brainer that Russia tried to tip the scales away from Hilary. It is reported that Russian agents breached both the DNC and RNC email systems, but only leaked damaging information from the DNC system.

But there is a long way from that to "collusion." Maybe the Trump campaign was glad that Russia was helping them, which is reprehensible. But illegal? Unless the Trump campaign aided the Russian intelligence service I don't see collusion. And what help could the Trump campaign give to Russian hackers? Maybe you could say that the Trump campaign knew of the Russian actions and did not report them. But it already was widely known at the time.

The tragedy is that Trump's base doesn't even care that agents of a hostile foreign power interfered in a U.S. federal election as long as their guy benefited. It shows how debased the American political system is.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 08:41:57 AM by Scarpia »

Offline San Antonio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6954 on: November 13, 2017, 08:44:58 AM »
The tragedy is that Trump's base doesn't even care that agents of a hostile foreign power interfered in a U.S. federal election as long as their guy benefited. It shows how debased the American political system is.

Funny.  Both Russia and the US have been attempting to influence foreign elections for a long, long time.  This entire story is being hyped for reasons other than a threat to our democracy.  Cough, cough ... the health of our democracy.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6955 on: November 13, 2017, 08:56:55 AM »
If you believe the U.S. intelligence service it is a no-brainer that Russia tried to tip the scales away from Hilary. It is reported that Russian agents breached both the DNC and RNC email systems, but only leaked damaging information from the DNC system.

But there is a long way from that to "collusion."

Sure.  But regardless of how the question of collusion plays out, there is the question of national security (something which even Republicans used to care about—hang on, wasn't that why there was all the indignation about the e-mail server?)
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6956 on: November 13, 2017, 08:57:57 AM »
Meanwhile:

The Republican mentality that enables [El Presidente Tupé] because of [fill in the blank — the Supreme Court, tax reform, etc.] despite his obvious unfitness for office and still defends him with “But Neil Gorsuch!” or “But a 20 percent corporate tax rate!” inevitably leads Republicans to defend and excuse Republican Alabama Senate nominee Roy Moore’s alleged child sexual predation. If the only thing that matters is holding power, then anything is acceptable, including electing a senator accused by four different women of inappropriate sexual advances when they were teenagers (accounts that were supported by some 30 interviews). Having justified [El Tupé’s] immoral, dangerous and dishonest behavior — not to mention replete evidence of temperamental unwellness — Republicans have put out the welcome mat for any monster with an “R” after his name. We should not have been surprised to see the monstrous efforts to defend Moore.
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Offline Scarpia

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6957 on: November 13, 2017, 08:58:57 AM »
Funny.  Both Russia and the US have been attempting to influence foreign elections for a long, long time.  This entire story is being hyped for reasons other than a threat to our democracy.  Cough, cough ... the health of our democracy.

Yes, the U.S. has long influenced foreign elections by killing one of the candidates.  I wonder what Trump supporters would have thought if Hillary Clinton had come down with Polonium poisoning.

I am not concerned with whether the story is being "hyped." I am concerned with what happened. It is not a matter of simply putting trash on Facebook. Anyone who thinks facebook is a place to get news is a moron anyway. They breached data systems of U.S. political institutions. That is a serious violation of law. Law enforcement is supposed to be non-political. You are not supposed to decide that Russian hacking of DNC servers is ok because you want the Democrats to loose.

Offline San Antonio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6958 on: November 13, 2017, 09:06:29 AM »
Yes, the U.S. has long influenced foreign elections by killing one of the candidates.  I wonder what Trump supporters would have thought if Hillary Clinton had come down with Polonium poisoning.

I am not concerned with whether the story is being "hyped." I am concerned with what happened. It is not a matter of simply putting trash on Facebook. Anyone who thinks facebook is a place to get news is a moron anyway. They breached data systems of U.S. political institutions. That is a serious violation of law. Law enforcement is supposed to be non-political. You are not supposed to decide that Russian hacking of DNC servers is ok because you want the Democrats to loose.

1st, you are making an assumption about what those who voted for Trump think (it was a pretty large group and they all don't share the same thoughts or reasons for why they voted as they did). 

2nd, I doubt anything the Russians did was anything close to a deciding factor in the last election. 

3rd, social media has been used by government actors, including US actors, for years in an attempt to influence opinion - this is simply the world we now live in.

Getting accurate and reliable information has always been dicey in our society, this is just the latest wrinkle.

Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #6959 on: November 13, 2017, 09:27:38 AM »
Funny.  Both Russia and the US have been attempting to influence foreign elections for a long, long time.  This entire story is being hyped for reasons other than a threat to our democracy.  Cough, cough ... the health of our democracy.

     The story is more important than what you think it's being hyped for. Assume partisans hype a story, I certainly do. There is still a story, something to find out and something to do about it. The administration has done nothing to prepare for ongoing interference in U.S. elections. One story is how they may have benefited from past interference, but that's not the only story worth covering. Not protecting against future interference is a story, too.

     Our allies are worried about Russian interference in elections, not U.S. interference. I wonder if the paralysis in the WH paralyzes the non-Mueller DOJ. Must they leave it to Mueller to discover the reasons we won't respond? It should concern everyone that the Trumpists are pushing a bogus theory of widespread voter fraud while ignoring a real problem.

Quote
2nd, I doubt anything the Russians did was anything close to a deciding factor in the last election.


     Though I think ultimately Russian propaganda appealed most to those already convinced, I do appreciate that if we don't harden out election system interference might be more effective the next time. But let's not assume Russia is trying to elect moles. That will be hard. The chief goal is to create chaos and legitimize democratic government. Trump kind of fell into their lap.
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