Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 265368 times)

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Offline San Antonio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7000 on: November 14, 2017, 08:14:25 AM »
Ideology unchecked is what is evil, but since most governments are driven by an ideology, they become the expression of evil.  Our only recourse it to limit the power of a government to do evil to us and others.   However,the larger and richer a government is the harder it is for mere mortals to hold it in check.

Offline André

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7001 on: November 14, 2017, 09:21:55 AM »
The month is not over yet, but I think the Golden Turd Award for November goes to Roy Moore. Good luck, Alabama !


Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7003 on: November 14, 2017, 10:32:00 AM »

 

Governments are beholden to large corporate entities and powerful special interest groups, not mere voters (who are manipulated by those same corporations and interest groups through the media).  Almost everything any elected official does is to pay back the groups and corporations that got him/her elected.   T

     If that's what you want, fine. If you want something else, go for that. Adam Smith says people pursuing self interest create good things that, from a larger point of view, are not just self interest. They use governments to do it, too. Not that there's much choice. All societies are governed, and forms of government evolve. Unlike Darwinian evolution, social evolution is partly under our control. Each stage of evolution has to survive until it gets to the next stage, revolutionaries want to leapfrog to an imagined state of innocence. It doesn't usually work out well.

     I have respect for institutions, which I'd rather transform than abolish. I don't even want to abolish churches or religions, every bit as bad as other forms of government.
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Offline bwv 1080

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7004 on: November 14, 2017, 10:57:44 AM »
Institutions in the economic definition are both formally and informally constructed devices to impose constraints and incentives on individuals economic activity and are probably the single most important determinate of economic success.  It is why, for example, Canada is a more successful economy than Argentina when both are similarly endowed with natural and human resources
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7005 on: November 14, 2017, 11:26:15 AM »
Institutions in the economic definition are both formally and informally constructed devices to impose constraints and incentives on individuals economic activity and are probably the single most important determinate of economic success.  It is why, for example, Canada is a more successful economy than Argentina when both are similarly endowed with natural and human resources

     Governance problems are IMV prior to a particular form of government, so that some countries have trouble holding onto a democratic form. History is against them. The European experience of multiple centers of power in institutions and geography produced a very different outcome from any other on the globe. Walter Russell Meade has pointed out that the developments in the political culture of the English language with its global expansion has attained an even greater level of influence (it's often referred to as "the West" but it's more particular than that). His book God and Gold tells the story his way. Meade refers to our Trumpist present as a "Jacksonian revolt", distinct from prior versions of internationalism, which he terms Hamiltonian and Wilsonian.
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Offline San Antonio

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7006 on: November 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM »
     If that's what you want, fine. If you want something else, go for that. Adam Smith says people pursuing self interest create good things that, from a larger point of view, are not just self interest. They use governments to do it, too. Not that there's much choice. All societies are governed, and forms of government evolve. Unlike Darwinian evolution, social evolution is partly under our control. Each stage of evolution has to survive until it gets to the next stage, revolutionaries want to leapfrog to an imagined state of innocence. It doesn't usually work out well.

     I have respect for institutions, which I'd rather transform than abolish. I don't even want to abolish churches or religions, every bit as bad as other forms of government.

I have no faith in the kind of democratic process you describe whereby ordinary people can create the kind of government they want.  I doubt that kind of society ever existed in the US. 

When I vote it is a tactical decision to vote for the candidate who has a real chance of getting elected but represents the lowest odds of effectively wielding his power.  Preferably I want a dysfunctional federal government, hamstrung by gridlock and distracted by scandal.  I want our elected officials's time to be taken up with anything other than legislating.

So far, the Trump presidency has been a wild success.

Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7007 on: November 14, 2017, 11:52:36 AM »

Why? [would Moore supporters believe the written evidence that Moore lied about knowing his latest accuser and the restaurant behind which he attempted to rape her.]


Because it is unequivocal objective evidence they can see. And because hope springs eternal?

Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7008 on: November 14, 2017, 11:55:24 AM »
I want a dysfunctional federal government, hamstrung by gridlock and distracted by scandal.  I want our elected officials's time to be taken up with anything other than legislating.

How far back in time are you willing to push this stance?  When did the USA federal government, and your elected officials, cease to be useful, and begin to be harmful?





« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 12:05:09 PM by Florestan »
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7009 on: November 14, 2017, 11:59:30 AM »
I have no faith in the kind of democratic process you describe whereby ordinary people can create the kind of government they want.  I doubt that kind of society ever existed in the US. 



     The only way ordinary people can create the kind of government they want is to act like they can. It's not something that can happen from a passive moral superiority to the process, what you call "faith". I hate faith, it's for losers.
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Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7010 on: November 14, 2017, 12:16:38 PM »
Because it is unequivocal objective evidence they can see. And because hope springs eternal?


Neither of those matter much.


So far, the Trump presidency has been a wild success.


I would call it a success more than a wild success.  Trump has stopped some of Obama's Executive Orders from being implemented; he has signed some legislation rolling back other regulations; he has already appointed a SCOTUS judge and lower court judges whom Dems can't block (thanks Senator Reid!); and he pulled out of the Paris Agreement.  (He or Pence could end up rejoining the Agreement, which ultimately doesn't matter much.)  On the downside, he pulled out of TPP, and he hasn't done much to curb the more militaristic aspects of US foreign policy, and I doubt he will, but you can't have everything.  The effect of his stance toward the Iran Nuclear Deal (another non-treaty!) is still unclear.  In doing these things, he has also helped create a political environment that, if Dems take either chamber of Congress next year, will lead to almost total paralysis and practically unending Congressional hearings, and hopefully impeachment proceedings.  (Come on Dems, take the House!)  Even if Dems take back the White House in 2020, it will take years to get back to even 2010 in some cases, looking at it from an administrative and statutory perspective.  Not bad for a political neophyte.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7011 on: November 14, 2017, 12:31:03 PM »
In the case of Trump specifically, it was the Electoral College. 

Fair enough.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7013 on: November 14, 2017, 03:14:12 PM »
How far back in time are you willing to push this stance?  When did the USA federal government, and your elected officials, cease to be useful, and begin to be harmful?


      What's so good about the status quo that one should want to preserve it, and how did it get that way?
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7014 on: November 14, 2017, 07:29:39 PM »

     ‘Why aren’t the other hands up?’ A top Trump adviser’s startling response to CEOs not doing what he’d expect

     Cohn asked a bunch of CEOs to raise their hands if they would invest more if they got their tax cut. In a staggering burst of honesty and realism few did.

     What the fuck is wrong with this guy? Is he smoking his own product? Why would anyone think a company would invest money when demand didn't justify it because the government gives them more to play with? You invest because you have customers, not because you have tax breaks! When customers come in the door with cash to spend, that's when you invest, whatever the tax rate is. You are paying the CEOs not to invest, using the tax break you didn't give the customers that are not showing up. Does Cohn not know this?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 08:02:01 PM by drogulus »
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7015 on: November 15, 2017, 08:23:53 PM »
Taxpayers pay legal bill to protect Trump business profits

"Taxpayers are footing the legal bill for at least 10 Justice Department lawyers and paralegals to work on lawsuits related to President Trump's private businesses.

Neither the White House nor the Justice Department will say how much it is costing taxpayers, but federal payroll records show the salaries of the government lawyers assigned to the cases range from about $133,000 to $185,000.

The government legal team is defending President Trump in four lawsuits stemming from his unusual decision not to divest himself from hundreds of his companies that are entangled with customers that include foreign governments and officials.

In the cases, Justice Department attorneys are not defending policy actions Trump took as president. Instead, the taxpayer-funded lawyers are making the case that it is not unconstitutional for the president's private companies to earn profits from foreign governments and officials while he's in office."

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7016 on: November 15, 2017, 08:30:36 PM »
Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa

"The Trump administration plans to allow hunters to import trophies of elephants they killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia back to the United States, reversing a ban put in place by the Obama administration in 2014, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official confirmed to ABC News today."

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7017 on: November 16, 2017, 05:12:50 AM »
He is accomplishing so much!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #7019 on: November 16, 2017, 05:48:57 AM »
This is in the Washington Post, so the haters are already primed to hate.  But, here it is:

In North Carolina, some [El Tupé] voters have buyer’s remorse

Republican women who supported [El Presidente Tupé] in the swing state said during a focus group that they are embarrassed and exasperated by him.


Quote
But I think that his language is unprofessional. He uses words like ‘sad’ and ‘bad.’ That’s first grade language.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

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