Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 354158 times)

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Online k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8860 on: February 13, 2018, 02:37:34 PM »
Jennifer Rubin is a never-Trumper who may have cosmopolitan views on some social issues, but she's not a Democrat or a liberal.

A Trumpkin, like his idol, already knows it all.
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8861 on: February 13, 2018, 05:25:29 PM »
And, a headline at The Fix column at the Washington Post:

Jeff Sessions’s ‘Anglo-American’ comments, and the danger of the liberal Trump outrage machine

Wait, what is this?—critiquing one’s own ‘tribe’?   ;D

What makes that little brouha piquant is that it came out on the day Sessions was giving a speech in which he noted that the Civil War was about slavery, and nothing else, and that the South's determination to keep slavery made the war inevitable.
He may be named for Confederate heros but he is no neo-Confederate.

Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8862 on: February 13, 2018, 06:18:53 PM »
Well, at least WaPo hates deficit, period. Without subscription one can't read anything on their website.  :laugh:


Clear your cache on close and you can read all you want; you'll just have to close intermittently.  Alternatively, use outline.com (https://outline.com/) and copy in the URL.  It even blows by the WSJ paywall.
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8863 on: February 13, 2018, 06:21:39 PM »

Clear your cache on close and you can read all you want; you'll just have to close intermittently.  Alternatively, use outline.com (https://outline.com/) and copy in the URL.  It even blows by the WSJ paywall.

Also right-click on your browser's "open in incognito/private tab".  Works on WaPo. Don't know about the WSJ.

Offline Todd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8864 on: February 13, 2018, 06:25:25 PM »
Don't know about the WSJ.


Not last time I tried.
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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8865 on: February 13, 2018, 09:59:22 PM »
I have no sympathy for socialism, democratic or otherwise, but I believe Sanders was more honest and principled than both Trump and Hillary.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-income-inequality_b_10096298.html

Bernie Sanders has run one of the most successful “outsider” campaigns in the history of American politics. The self-proclaimed socialist has done so largely as a crusader against income inequality.

Yet in 2014 Bernie and his wife Jane earned $206,000 according to their federal tax return, placing them in the top 6%. Even if you use just the Vermont Senator’s $174,000 salary, he’s still an 8%’er. And then there’s the $200,000 golden parachute his wife Jane took upon her departure as president in 2011 from Burlington College after nearly bankrupting it over a bad real estate deal. The poor and middle classes are lucky to get two weeks’ notice when they get fired. Talk about inequality. Excuse me if I see a bit of hypocrisy in the Bank of Sanders.

As the man or woman on the street would tell ya, $174,000 is a lot of dough. More than what 92% of Americans earn. Jane’s $200,000 exit payoff is nearly four times the average U.S. annual household income.

So despite the enviable veneer of altruism and selflessness, is Bernie Sanders just a typical politician who lies to his constituents, feeds them empty promises, all the while living the life of the kind of wealthy, privileged American he attempts to shame at every turn? Only time will tell.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434194/bernie-sanderss-tax-returns-reveal-his-hypocrisy

Bernie Sanders released his 2014 tax return this weekend, revealing that he and his wife took $60,208 in deductions from their taxable income. These deductions are all perfectly legal and permitted under the U.S. tax code, but they present a morally inconvenient, if delicious, irony: The Democratic socialist from Vermont, a man who rages against high earners paying a lower effective tax rate than blue-collar workers, saved himself thousands using many of the tricks that would be banned under his own tax plan.

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8866 on: February 13, 2018, 10:05:13 PM »

Clear your cache on close and you can read all you want; you'll just have to close intermittently.  Alternatively, use outline.com (https://outline.com/) and copy in the URL.  It even blows by the WSJ paywall.

Also right-click on your browser's "open in incognito/private tab".  Works on WaPo. Don't know about the WSJ.

Thank you guys.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8867 on: February 13, 2018, 10:09:46 PM »
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-income-inequality_b_10096298.html

Bernie Sanders has run one of the most successful “outsider” campaigns in the history of American politics. The self-proclaimed socialist has done so largely as a crusader against income inequality.

Yet in 2014 Bernie and his wife Jane earned $206,000 according to their federal tax return, placing them in the top 6%. Even if you use just the Vermont Senator’s $174,000 salary, he’s still an 8%’er. And then there’s the $200,000 golden parachute his wife Jane took upon her departure as president in 2011 from Burlington College after nearly bankrupting it over a bad real estate deal. The poor and middle classes are lucky to get two weeks’ notice when they get fired. Talk about inequality. Excuse me if I see a bit of hypocrisy in the Bank of Sanders.

As the man or woman on the street would tell ya, $174,000 is a lot of dough. More than what 92% of Americans earn. Jane’s $200,000 exit payoff is nearly four times the average U.S. annual household income.

So despite the enviable veneer of altruism and selflessness, is Bernie Sanders just a typical politician who lies to his constituents, feeds them empty promises, all the while living the life of the kind of wealthy, privileged American he attempts to shame at every turn? Only time will tell.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434194/bernie-sanderss-tax-returns-reveal-his-hypocrisy

Bernie Sanders released his 2014 tax return this weekend, revealing that he and his wife took $60,208 in deductions from their taxable income. These deductions are all perfectly legal and permitted under the U.S. tax code, but they present a morally inconvenient, if delicious, irony: The Democratic socialist from Vermont, a man who rages against high earners paying a lower effective tax rate than blue-collar workers, saved himself thousands using many of the tricks that would be banned under his own tax plan.

I didn't know that, of course. One more piece of evidence that nothing good is to be expected from politicians, no matter who they are and what they proclaim to stand for.
In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia. - George Orwell

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8868 on: February 13, 2018, 10:23:15 PM »
I didn't know that, of course. One more piece of evidence that nothing good is to be expected from politicians, no matter who they are and what they proclaim to stand for.

Bernie "Freebie" Sanders!  Who is going to foot the bill for free health care and education? The taxpayers of course!
Somehow the latter gets lost in campaign rhetoric.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8869 on: February 13, 2018, 10:36:25 PM »
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-income-inequality_b_10096298.html

Bernie Sanders has run one of the most successful “outsider” campaigns in the history of American politics. The self-proclaimed socialist has done so largely as a crusader against income inequality.

Yet in 2014 Bernie and his wife Jane earned $206,000 according to their federal tax return, placing them in the top 6%. Even if you use just the Vermont Senator’s $174,000 salary, he’s still an 8%’er. And then there’s the $200,000 golden parachute his wife Jane took upon her departure as president in 2011 from Burlington College after nearly bankrupting it over a bad real estate deal. The poor and middle classes are lucky to get two weeks’ notice when they get fired. Talk about inequality. Excuse me if I see a bit of hypocrisy in the Bank of Sanders.

As the man or woman on the street would tell ya, $174,000 is a lot of dough. More than what 92% of Americans earn. Jane’s $200,000 exit payoff is nearly four times the average U.S. annual household income.

So despite the enviable veneer of altruism and selflessness, is Bernie Sanders just a typical politician who lies to his constituents, feeds them empty promises, all the while living the life of the kind of wealthy, privileged American he attempts to shame at every turn? Only time will tell.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434194/bernie-sanderss-tax-returns-reveal-his-hypocrisy

Bernie Sanders released his 2014 tax return this weekend, revealing that he and his wife took $60,208 in deductions from their taxable income. These deductions are all perfectly legal and permitted under the U.S. tax code, but they present a morally inconvenient, if delicious, irony: The Democratic socialist from Vermont, a man who rages against high earners paying a lower effective tax rate than blue-collar workers, saved himself thousands using many of the tricks that would be banned under his own tax plan.

Yes, Bernie Sanders is affluent and files his taxes according to current law. But Bernie Sanders has advocated for policies that would increase his own personal tax burden, while providing more support for people of limited means. That is not hypocracy. That is putting the common good above his own personal advantage. Are you really incapable of understanding that?

Offline milk

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8870 on: February 13, 2018, 11:07:04 PM »
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-income-inequality_b_10096298.html

Bernie Sanders has run one of the most successful “outsider” campaigns in the history of American politics. The self-proclaimed socialist has done so largely as a crusader against income inequality.

Yet in 2014 Bernie and his wife Jane earned $206,000 according to their federal tax return, placing them in the top 6%. Even if you use just the Vermont Senator’s $174,000 salary, he’s still an 8%’er. And then there’s the $200,000 golden parachute his wife Jane took upon her departure as president in 2011 from Burlington College after nearly bankrupting it over a bad real estate deal. The poor and middle classes are lucky to get two weeks’ notice when they get fired. Talk about inequality. Excuse me if I see a bit of hypocrisy in the Bank of Sanders.

As the man or woman on the street would tell ya, $174,000 is a lot of dough. More than what 92% of Americans earn. Jane’s $200,000 exit payoff is nearly four times the average U.S. annual household income.

So despite the enviable veneer of altruism and selflessness, is Bernie Sanders just a typical politician who lies to his constituents, feeds them empty promises, all the while living the life of the kind of wealthy, privileged American he attempts to shame at every turn? Only time will tell.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434194/bernie-sanderss-tax-returns-reveal-his-hypocrisy

Bernie Sanders released his 2014 tax return this weekend, revealing that he and his wife took $60,208 in deductions from their taxable income. These deductions are all perfectly legal and permitted under the U.S. tax code, but they present a morally inconvenient, if delicious, irony: The Democratic socialist from Vermont, a man who rages against high earners paying a lower effective tax rate than blue-collar workers, saved himself thousands using many of the tricks that would be banned under his own tax plan.
Yeah...he's around #350 in net worth amongst MOC. Being extremely famous and having written several best-selling publications it's hardly a shock the guy made some money. Maybe he should have made more. On the other hand, his charitable giving was a little light before the last election cycle. 4%. Obama gave 22% compared to Cruz's mere 1% (how godly!). Clinton gave 11%. Bush and Christie, respectively, =ed 3%. Tump? who knows as he lives in a no fact no truth no transparency zone. I think he donates to himself through himself and charges the sick, the poor and the destitute a fee to show up. Probably writes it off too.

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8871 on: February 13, 2018, 11:12:27 PM »
Yes, Bernie Sanders is affluent and files his taxes according to current law. But Bernie Sanders has advocated for policies that would increase his own personal tax burden, while providing more support for people of limited means. That is not hypocracy. That is putting the common good above his own personal advantage. Are you really incapable of understanding that?

Did you not read that his wife bankrupted the college she was head of and got $200,000 as severance pay?

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/domestic-taxes/324123-rand-paul-slams-sanderss-tax-rate

Sanders paid a 13.5 percent rate in his 2014 taxes, and President Obama paid 18.7 percent in 2015.
Trump paid a 25.3 percent tax rate in 2005, according to Fox News.


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house

Bernie Sanders now has one thing in common with the millionaires and billionaires and other 1 percenters he so frequently attacked on the campaign trail: he now owns his very own summer home.

Vermont magazine Seven Days reported Tuesday that the 74-year-old senator and his wife, Jane Sanders, have purchased a four-bedroom house on the shore of Lake Champlain for roughly $600,000... With this purchase, Sanders now owns at least three houses, the others being in Burlington, VT, and Capitol Hill in D.C.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8872 on: February 13, 2018, 11:49:26 PM »
Did you not read that his wife bankrupted the college she was head of and got $200,000 as severance pay?

They agreed to end her contract early and paid a bit more than a years worth of salary as a severance. They had a financial obligation to her and reached a settlement for partial fulfillment of her contract. Nothing unusual or immoral about a person requiring an employer to honor the terms of an employment contract.

The college went bankrupt 5 years after she left. Things went south after she was forced to resign and they could not maintain the level of fund raising that she achieved. They might very well have been fine if she had stayed.

Quote
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/domestic-taxes/324123-rand-paul-slams-sanderss-tax-rate

Sanders paid a 13.5 percent rate in his 2014 taxes, and President Obama paid 18.7 percent in 2015.
Trump paid a 25.3 percent tax rate in 2005, according to Fox News.


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house

The tax rate Sanders paid is determined by the federal tax code. I don't see how that reflects on Bernie Sanders.

Quote
Bernie Sanders now has one thing in common with the millionaires and billionaires and other 1 percenters he so frequently attacked on the campaign trail: he now owns his very own summer home.

Vermont magazine Seven Days reported Tuesday that the 74-year-old senator and his wife, Jane Sanders, have purchased a four-bedroom house on the shore of Lake Champlain for roughly $600,000... With this purchase, Sanders now owns at least three houses, the others being in Burlington, VT, and Capitol Hill in D.C.


He is a hypocrite because he has a summer home? Are you really so deranged that that makes sense to you?

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8873 on: February 13, 2018, 11:56:20 PM »
They agreed to end her contract early and paid a bit more than a years worth of salary as a severance. They had a financial obligation to her and reached a settlement for partial fulfillment of her contract. Nothing unusual or immoral about a person requiring an employer to honor the terms of an employment contract. The college went bankrupt 5 years after she left. Things went south after she was forced to resign and they could not maintain the level of fund raising that she achieved. They might very well have been fine if she had stayed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/08/bernie-sanders-wifes-land-deal-still-under-fbi-probe-witness-recently-questioned.html

Jane Sanders is under investigation following a land deal she clinched when she was president of Burlington College in Vermont in 2010. In order to expand the college, Sanders sought to obtain a tract of land from a Roman Catholic parish. She secured a $6.7 million loan from a bank and a $3.6 million loan from the parish from which she planned to purchase the property. But she resigned in 2011 amid allegations that she purposely inflated and made up the amount of money donors have pledged to the school and provided incorrect information to a bank to get the loan. Multiple individuals, who were listed as college donors, have since come forward denying the commitments.

The tax rate Sanders paid is determined by the federal tax code. I don't see how that reflects on Bernie Sanders.

Sanders wanted to close the tax loopholes that he so freely took advantage of.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 01:04:02 AM by zamyrabyrd »
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Offline milk

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8874 on: February 14, 2018, 12:22:15 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/08/bernie-sanders-wifes-land-deal-still-under-fbi-probe-witness-recently-questioned.html

Jane Sanders is under investigation following a land deal she clinched when she was president of Burlington College in Vermont in 2010. In order to expand the college, Sanders sought to obtain a tract of land from a Roman Catholic parish. She secured a $6.7 million loan from a bank and a $3.6 million loan from the parish from which she planned to purchase the property. But she resigned in 2011 amid allegations that she purposely inflated and made up the amount of money donors have pledged to the school and provided incorrect information to a bank to get the loan. Multiple individuals, who were listed as college donors, have since come forward denying the commitments.

Sanders wanted to close the tax loppholes that he so freely took advantage of.
Loophole is a pretty loaded term. Which loophole? I caution you that the argument you'e making against a leftie is the same argument lefties have made against righties like Ron Paul: e.g. he's not a true libertarian because he took advantage of getting federal dollars for his district. I probably have to defend him in saying that while he's in the system he's in, he'd be shooting himself in the foot by not doing what's possible. I'm sure Sanders has a capable tax preparer. He doesn't make THAT much money compared to his colleagues. In the case of Sanders' wife, she might end up in legal trouble it's true. We will see. But as has been pointed out, you're not exactly working from the facts. Until we see Tump's returns, can say about his personal giving? There've been plenty of factual news items about his shenanigans. You'll never convince me Tump is a charitable human being in any sense of the word. Mike Pense maybe. Dump? come on.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8875 on: February 14, 2018, 01:51:24 AM »
Are you really so deranged that that makes sense to you?

Having followed american politics much more closely for a year now (because of Trump's presidency) it seems to me 25 % of americans are deranged and "too far gone." zamyrabyrd seems to one of them althou perhaps not one of the worst cases. Left is on the raise in the US, because people are so fed up with the corporatism. Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the country because he talks about single payer healthcare, free education, etc., things the majority of americans want and could easily get if the politicians didn't only serve their donators. I wonder if zamyrabyrd is happy with her healthcare and what it cost to her. Or if she is proud of her country being the only developped country where thousands of people die every year because they don't have access to healthcare. But hey, if you think healthcare is about making insurance companies and Big Pharma filthy rich rather than giving people the care they need then I'm going to call you deranged.

The media being controllied by establishment supports republicans or corporate democrates while attacking the left. They either deny the existence (e.g. Justice Democrate candidates) or attack (Bernie Sanders) if you can't deny the existence. They talk about Joe Kennedy being the new democratic raising star when the real rising star among democrates has been Ro Khanna. Why? Because Kennedy is a corporate and Khanna is not. People don't care about Joe Kennedy. Ro Khanna is fighting for the left policies people want.

I don't think it's zamyrabyrd fault she is how she is. She is a product of a deranged system. As Trump would end his tweets, it's SAD.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8876 on: February 14, 2018, 02:54:20 AM »
Having followed american politics much more closely for a year now (because of Trump's presidency) it seems to me 25 % of americans are

Close!  It's 27%:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crazification_factor

(Rationalwiki has to poop on our fun by bringing statistics into it.)


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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8877 on: February 14, 2018, 03:50:20 AM »
They agreed to end her contract early and paid a bit more than a years worth of salary as a severance. They had a financial obligation to her and reached a settlement for partial fulfillment of her contract. Nothing unusual or immoral about a person requiring an employer to honor the terms of an employment contract.

The college went bankrupt 5 years after she left. Things went south after she was forced to resign and they could not maintain the level of fund raising that she achieved. They might very well have been fine if she had stayed.

Of course, the lesson from this exercise is:  if it's dirt on a Clinton, or on Sanders, it is Truth of the Gold Standard.

But, if it's negative press on The Precious President, whoa, buddy, show me the proof.  And no proof you show me is good enough.
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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #8878 on: February 14, 2018, 03:51:53 AM »

Not long ago, zb was swearing on her great-aunt's grave that there was nothing to the Stormy Daniels story.  (Because, you know, if a Trump surrogate says it was not true, why would he or she lie?)

Longtime Trump attorney says he made $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels with his money

Michael Cohen, who had previously dismissed stories about the payment, said he paid Daniels using his own money, rather than involving the Trump Organization or the Trump presidential campaign.
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