Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 756405 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline drogulus

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6876
  • Gypsy, 1970
  • Location: Watertown, MA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15620 on: March 15, 2019, 09:27:30 AM »
Don't know why he feels better, or don't know why you're glad?

    Yes......
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/56.0 Waterfox/56.2.10
      
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0

Offline drogulus

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6876
  • Gypsy, 1970
  • Location: Watertown, MA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15621 on: March 15, 2019, 09:31:20 AM »


     Cohen may have lied about his pardon negotiations with the WH danglers. Let's compile a witness list.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/56.0 Waterfox/56.2.10
      
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1476
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15622 on: March 15, 2019, 01:23:24 PM »
Thanks, I'm feeling better today. I need to learn not to get triggered by people like JBS.

I am sorry I triggered you. But you need to understand three things: 1) the US system is institutionally tilted to the Right, and anyone more progressive than Pelosi and Feinstein (who are progressives in US terms) won't beat Trump.  2)The sources you rely on are biased, one sided, and as capable of distorting facts as anyone else. Be as skeptical of them as you are of Fox and CNN, and you will begin to have a better understanding of things. 3)Money is central to politics, because politics is about who controls money and power. The only way to get money out of politics is to abolish both money and politics.  Anyone who pretends otherwise can be assumed to be trying to scam their way to power.

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

  • Guest
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15623 on: March 15, 2019, 03:01:13 PM »
I am sorry I triggered you. But you need to understand three things: 1) the US system is institutionally tilted to the Right, and anyone more progressive than Pelosi and Feinstein (who are progressives in US terms) won't beat Trump.  2)The sources you rely on are biased, one sided, and as capable of distorting facts as anyone else. Be as skeptical of them as you are of Fox and CNN, and you will begin to have a better understanding of things. 3)Money is central to politics, because politics is about who controls money and power. The only way to get money out of politics is to abolish both money and politics.  Anyone who pretends otherwise can be assumed to be trying to scam their way to power.

And you claim to be less clueless than 71dB? :)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 03:03:58 PM by Ghost of Baron Scarpia »

Offline drogulus

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6876
  • Gypsy, 1970
  • Location: Watertown, MA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15624 on: March 15, 2019, 03:32:36 PM »

     Trump’s Breitbart Biker Threat Came From the Putin Playbook—Then Tweet Deleted After Mosque Massacre

     Are threats of violence not Presidential? Let's ask Vladdy, he's a President. He knows people, bikers, police, tourists who love tall spires etc.

     I have to wonder how much advice Trump gets directly from his friend. The parallels seems too orchestrated to be merely a case of like minds threatening alike.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/56.0 Waterfox/56.2.10
      
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6397
  • I free-think, therefore I am free
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15625 on: March 15, 2019, 03:42:02 PM »
I am sorry I triggered you. But you need to understand three things: 1) the US system is institutionally tilted to the Right, and anyone more progressive than Pelosi and Feinstein (who are progressives in US terms) won't beat Trump.  2)The sources you rely on are biased, one sided, and as capable of distorting facts as anyone else. Be as skeptical of them as you are of Fox and CNN, and you will begin to have a better understanding of things. 3)Money is central to politics, because politics is about who controls money and power. The only way to get money out of politics is to abolish both money and politics.  Anyone who pretends otherwise can be assumed to be trying to scam their way to power.

1) Yes, tilted right bigly! However, among American people left wing ideas are very popular. Just about everything on that front polls over 50 % maybe the only exception being ban of death penalty. It has been estimated that if it had been Trump vs Bernie Sanders in 2016 Bernie would have won and Bernie's popularity has only risen since that and the popularity of lefty ideas among American has risen too. If it is Trump vs Bernie Sanders 2020 Bernie will eat Trump alive!  >:D Non-progressives would have hard time beating Trump.

2) Yes, they are biased. Everybody is. They tell you how they are biased (to the left) and they give you the facts. Please fact check them and see it they distort the facts. Listen to them and think if what they say makes sense. Be critical! Kyle Kulinski encourages people who watch him to be critical of what he says. He can do that. A rational person should notice fast that they are completely different than Fox and CNN. The corporate media in the US is so bad that these independent lefties are a superior source of information. If you don't see that then you simply live in a corporate bubble.

3) Politics is about what? No no no! Politics is about serving people. They vote for you and you serve them. You fight for them to make their lives better and doing so you earn their support. That's what politics is about in democracy. Since the US is an oligarchy and a democracy only on paper, it happens that the rich get to buy most of the politicians and those politicians serve those who bought them. In real democracy every single candidate would have the same government granded budget to use to campaign and equal fair coverage on media. That would make it a market of ideas and the candidates with best ideas would often win.

You tell me to understand these things? Wow.  ::)
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1476
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15626 on: March 15, 2019, 04:50:33 PM »
1) Yes, tilted right bigly! However, among American people left wing ideas are very popular. Just about everything on that front polls over 50 % maybe the only exception being ban of death penalty. It has been estimated that if it had been Trump vs Bernie Sanders in 2016 Bernie would have won and Bernie's popularity has only risen since that and the popularity of lefty ideas among American has risen too. If it is Trump vs Bernie Sanders 2020 Bernie will eat Trump alive!  >:D Non-progressives would have hard time beating Trump.

2) Yes, they are biased. Everybody is. They tell you how they are biased (to the left) and they give you the facts. Please fact check them and see it they distort the facts. Listen to them and think if what they say makes sense. Be critical! Kyle Kulinski encourages people who watch him to be critical of what he says. He can do that. A rational person should notice fast that they are completely different than Fox and CNN. The corporate media in the US is so bad that these independent lefties are a superior source of information. If you don't see that then you simply live in a corporate bubble.

3) Politics is about what? No no no! Politics is about serving people. They vote for you and you serve them. You fight for them to make their lives better and doing so you earn their support. That's what politics is about in democracy. Since the US is an oligarchy and a democracy only on paper, it happens that the rich get to buy most of the politicians and those politicians serve those who bought them. In real democracy every single candidate would have the same government granded budget to use to campaign and equal fair coverage on media. That would make it a market of ideas and the candidates with best ideas would often win.

You tell me to understand these things? Wow.  ::)

You have a very naive view of politics, is the best I can say.

You are very clearly a dedicated leftist. (Perhaps not in Finnish terms, but certainly in US terms.)  So is Kulinski. As a person who is dedicated to science, shouldn't you be constantly evaluating your data, looking for errors, assuming your sources to be fallible? And above all, be especially skeptical about sources that merely confirm your previous ideas? Which is what Kulinski is.

What I truly don't understand is why you are so opposed to the idea that leftist ideas are not as popular in the US as you want them to be, and that among Democratic candidates, the one who is least progressive  is the one most likely to beat Trump.

The US trends to the right, and the way our system is set up, the right always has an advantage over the left.  The portions of the US population who do trend left are exactly those with the least influence: the young, minorities, etc.
70 percent of Americans may want Medicare for all, but the 30 percent who don't are the ones much more likely to vote. Obama won the Presidency twice because he was able to motivate a group that does not always vote.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 51408
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, Frescobaldi, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Chopin, Haydn, Henning
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15627 on: March 15, 2019, 05:17:19 PM »
Wrong diagnosis. The problem is that everyone has been trained to think for decades that a college degree is essential to success, whether or not the student is suited for college.  That is also the source of the debt problem.  And college tuition was never free (unless you were a vet benefiting from the GI Bill.)

Wisdom
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline drogulus

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6876
  • Gypsy, 1970
  • Location: Watertown, MA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15628 on: March 15, 2019, 07:24:35 PM »
Wisdom

     I don't think so. This generation of students is unlikely to be less realistic about the need for higher education than earlier ones that had the advantage of going to state colleges and universities that used to offer free tuition. What trains students to think they need this education is that good jobs that require a high school graduation only have largely vanished.

     There have always been people unsuited to higher education. Why should there be so many more now? No, I don't buy the explanation, it's not wise. It's a disastrous policy, lives are damaged, families won't form, careers are delayed, the economy will lose the productivity, there is literally nothing that was gained and a great deal lost.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 07:26:13 PM by drogulus »
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/56.0 Waterfox/56.2.10
      
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1476
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15629 on: March 15, 2019, 07:33:46 PM »
     I don't think so. This generation of students is unlikely to be less realistic about the need for higher education than earlier ones that had the advantage of going to state colleges and universities that used to offer free tuition. What trains students to think they need this education is that good jobs that require a high school graduation only have largely vanished.

     There have always been people unsuited to higher education. Why should there be so many more now? No, I don't buy the explanation, it's not wise. It's a disastrous policy, lives are damaged, families won't form, careers are delayed, the economy will lose the productivity, there is literally nothing that was gained and a great deal lost.

Do you need a college degree to be an auto mechanic? Or just the specialized training a vocational school or program will provide.
For that matter, do you need a college education to write software or sell cars?

This is apropos
Quote
The best remedy to this problem might be to admit that college is, to some degree, a scam. Note that these parents were evidently unconcerned that their kids—who were often coached to fake learning disabilities so they could get more time on the ACT and SAT—might struggle with their course loads. It's because college is a joke, and it's easy enough for an academically disinclined grifter—an Olivia Jade, if you will—to get by studying nonsense subjects. They're paying for the experience and the diploma, not the actual education.

This is a point that Bryan Caplan raises in his excellent book The Case Against Education. Caplan argues that most of the value of a college education is signaling rather than skills. Students don't learn very much that will be useful to them in the job world, and even if they do, they quickly forget it. But a diploma signals to employers that the diploma-holder is competent in some abstract way—they jumped through a bunch of impressive-looking hoops, and are thus more worthy of a job than people who didn't. The implication of Caplan's research is that public funding of higher education is therefore a waste: It doesn't actually benefit society to subsidize a signaling mechanism if there's little relevant skill-gaining along the way. It just punishes everybody who, for whatever reason, doesn't have access to the right hoops.

https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/13/college-bribery-scandal-defund-loughlin/

Offline drogulus

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6876
  • Gypsy, 1970
  • Location: Watertown, MA
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15630 on: March 15, 2019, 09:33:44 PM »
Do you need a college degree to be an auto mechanic? Or just the specialized training a vocational school or program will provide.
For that matter, do you need a college education to write software or sell cars?

This is apropos
https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/13/college-bribery-scandal-defund-loughlin/

     That's not good enough. Students and parents know what college is about, and it was about the same things generations ago. Some go to learn, some to grow up, some to make connections that will be valuable, some because the careers they want require it. Go ahead and do your Republican alternative and create a million additional auto mechanics, this world needs and always will need people with a high level of general education and the social skills college provides. I'm 70 and appreciate how much easier it was when I was young than it is today, how diminished the prospects are.

     If that's what Caplan argues, it's not worth considering. I stated why. The reasons college serves students are various and beneficial. What you say he says is a fat non sequitur about other reasons college might advance a persons life like signalling and hoop jumping, which appear to me to be useful for an employer. If you want employers to not use signals or stop caring about the poise and sophistication they desire from the educated pursue that, if you can figure out how. If college is valuable for what Caplan condescendingly thinks are the wrong reasons, he is not making a very good argument that it isn't also valuable for the right reasons, too.

     My niece has learned enough in college to be a tutor to other students. She belongs to a generation that can't afford to drop out and drop back in later like so many in mine did.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/56.0 Waterfox/56.2.10
      
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0

Online SimonNZ

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5983
  • Location: Christchurch, NZ
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15631 on: March 15, 2019, 11:17:48 PM »
seen elsewhere:

A colleague of mine just described Trump's veto as a "Fischer-Price 'My First Veto'".



Ciaccona

  • Guest
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15633 on: March 15, 2019, 11:35:21 PM »
Rush Limbaugh suggests New Zealand shootings might be a false flag attack committed by a leftist to smear conservatives

Hey Simon - I was reading about the mass shooting the last few days and thought of you.
Do you live in Christchurch? - Has what happened affected you much?.
Edit: There's another member from NZ - amw who might have have something to say about it too (would be interested in hearing from her)...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 11:39:25 PM by Undersea »

Online SimonNZ

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5983
  • Location: Christchurch, NZ
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15634 on: March 15, 2019, 11:48:03 PM »
Hey. Yeah I live here. I don't think I knew anyone who was shot, but still utterly disgusting and dispiriting, and the last thing I would expect to see here. My feelings were perfectly expressed by the PM, if you heard them. A big "+1" to everything she said.

Ciaccona

  • Guest
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15635 on: March 15, 2019, 11:53:49 PM »
Hey. Yeah I live here. I don't think I knew anyone who was shot, but still utterly disgusting and dispiriting, and the last thing I would expect to see here. My feelings were perfectly expressed by the PM, if you heard them. A big "+1" to everything she said.

Thanks for your reply Simon - I was pretty shocked by the news. I always kind of think of NZ as being free from lots of gun violence, like Australia.
I'm really saddened and disgusted too - Why is it always innocent people who suffer in these situations. :(
I read that some Australian guy was arrested over it. I'll keep up with the news, I hadn't heard your PM speak about the event yet.

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6397
  • I free-think, therefore I am free
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15636 on: March 16, 2019, 03:36:19 AM »
You have a very naive view of politics, is the best I can say.

I HAD a naive and inaccurare view of American politics before Trump's victory. Not saying I am an expert on American politics today, but I have an understanding of what is happening and why.

You are very clearly a dedicated leftist. (Perhaps not in Finnish terms, but certainly in US terms.)  So is Kulinski. As a person who is dedicated to science, shouldn't you be constantly evaluating your data, looking for errors, assuming your sources to be fallible? And above all, be especially skeptical about sources that merely confirm your previous ideas? Which is what Kulinski is.

Even in Finland I am a lefty. I vote for the Green Party which is considered a lefty party and if I didn't vote for them I would vote for the Left Alliance Party. I don't care about labels. These two parties agree with my own opinions most of the time (more than other parties) so of course I vote for them regardless of whether they are called left wing or not.

What errors do you find in Kyle Kulinski's videos? Actually sometimes he is wrong and ADMITS it and corrects the mistake. How well do you know Kulinski and the left to beging with? You assumer the left and the right are as bad, which if you knew these things as well as I do is not true. Corporate media is about protecting the intrests of the top 1 %. The left is the antidote for that. They fight for the 99 %. The former does what do because the top 1 % buys them to do that. The latter does it because democracy is broken and people are suffering and struggling.

What I truly don't understand is why you are so opposed to the idea that leftist ideas are not as popular in the US as you want them to be, and that among Democratic candidates, the one who is least progressive  is the one most likely to beat Trump.

Why are you opposed to the idea that leftist ideas ARE popular in the US? You admit yourself that the US is poltically on the right. That's means right wing politics which means that the middle class and the poor are struggling when the top 1 % hoardes all the money. Of course that will eventually lead to leftism. You think that after 40 years of stagnated salaries (while the income of the top 1 % has sky-rocketed) the workers are fine with more stagnation? No, they are not! You think that people knowing about single-payer healthcare all over the World and it's superiority are fine with paying huge premiums, most expensive drugs in the World and ridiculous co-pays? No, they are not. What I have learned during the last 2 years that Americans are not idiots. They are just misled by the corporate media. The internet is changing that. You have options for information sources. You can go to Youtube and hear what Kyle Kulinski has to say.

Hillary Clinton lost to Trump. Maybe you think she was too progressive? I say she wasn't progressive enough. She didn't campaign for the left-wing ideas people want. Yes, she is hated and all that, but maybe people would hate her LESS if she actually fought for them? Hillary Clinton is a corporate hack. She had a vision of presidency for herself, not for Americans and that's why people hate her.

Even if a status quo Democrat like Biden won Trump, that would not help much Americans. The US is the only first World country in the World having third World problems. That won't be fixed until progressives have the power.

The US trends to the right, and the way our system is set up, the right always has an advantage over the left.  The portions of the US population who do trend left are exactly those with the least influence: the young, minorities, etc.

Corporate media tries to keep up this myth and you fall for it thinking Kulinski is just a crazy left-winger.

70 percent of Americans may want Medicare for all, but the 30 percent who don't are the ones much more likely to vote. Obama won the Presidency twice because he was able to motivate a group that does not always vote.

Even majority of Republican voters want Medicare for all! I think it was 52 % of Rebs and 85 % of Dems. Of the 30 % most oppose medicare for all because of corporate media smearing and Koch brothers lapdogs fearmongering single-payer healthcare.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:50:07 AM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6397
  • I free-think, therefore I am free
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15637 on: March 16, 2019, 04:00:32 AM »
Do you need a college degree to be an auto mechanic? Or just the specialized training a vocational school or program will provide.
For that matter, do you need a college education to write software or sell cars?

It's not about what kind of education is needed for a certain job. It's about the freedom to choose what kind of job you try to get. Should it be so that everybody from poor families become auto mechanic? Where is the economical ladder? Shouldn't it be so that if you are dumb but from rich family (someone like Trump), you don't have access to higher education because you don't pass the entrance exam and your daddy can't pay you in? Maybe Trump would have become better auto mechanic than businessman/president?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page

Offline BasilValentine

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 966
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15638 on: March 16, 2019, 05:21:42 AM »
Trump got a partial endorsement from the Christchurch terrorist, who hailed him as "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose," while dismissing his competence on policy and leadership. From the white supremacist perspective, apparently Trump's heart is in the right place.

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 16433
Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15639 on: March 16, 2019, 06:00:08 AM »
but I have an understanding of what is happening and why.


No, you do not. 

Back to the real topic: Trump.  I don't like Nancy Pelosi.  She said no to impeachment.   >:(
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General