Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 822122 times)

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Offline amw

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15680 on: March 17, 2019, 05:30:27 PM »
One of Ilhan Omar's first acts as a congresswoman was to vote yes on HB 21, which appropriated $3.3 billion in military aid to Israel of which $815 million was specifically earmarked for procurement of new weapons. You can find this in the congressional record. The bill passed by ~50 votes so it's not as though she couldn't have made a stand on principle if she wanted to. It would certainly be nice if she was genuinely an anti-Zionist but by the time anyone becomes an elected federal government official they seem to have already learned that the existence of Israel (the US's Jewish-themed summer camp/military forward operations base) is currently an important part of the US's Middle East power projection capabilities and therefore non-negotiable.

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15681 on: March 17, 2019, 05:48:45 PM »
Could you cite some of Omar's writings or comments where she talks of "ethnically cleansing the Jews"?

Actually since being elected to Omar has been all over the place regarding Israel. But in 2012 she called Israel's defense of itself against Hamas "evil doings", and she supports BDS, a movement dedicated to turning Israel into a pariah state.  So I think it is fair to say she supports the Palestinian agenda. She has not talked about ethnic cleansing, and I did not say she did. But she supports those whose goal is ethnic cleansing.

And if you think I am wrong to characterize the Palestinian goal that way, then you need to learn more about the axtual goals of the Palestinian organizations. (Which in the case of Hamas is not merely ethnic cleansing, but actual genocide.)

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15682 on: March 17, 2019, 06:18:23 PM »
Actually since being elected to Omar has been all over the place regarding Israel. But in 2012 she called Israel's defense of itself against Hamas "evil doings", and she supports BDS, a movement dedicated to turning Israel into a pariah state.  So I think it is fair to say she supports the Palestinian agenda. She has not talked about ethnic cleansing, and I did not say she did. But she supports those whose goal is ethnic cleansing.

And if you think I am wrong to characterize the Palestinian goal that way, then you need to learn more about the axtual goals of the Palestinian organizations. (Which in the case of Hamas is not merely ethnic cleansing, but actual genocide.)

On the one hand: the literature and debate on the Israel-Palestine situation is a Big Muddy I've not yet cared to wade into so I don't have any carefully considered position.

On the other hand: ive gleaned that a great many scholars from a wide field and from different backgrounds all seem to agree that the Palestinians have some legitimate grievances.


Shall we take a trip around the world together asking if supporting a certain cause in that country means supporting the most extreme or militant aspect of it?. We can include the US among the examples if you want.

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15683 on: March 17, 2019, 06:49:41 PM »
On the one hand: the literature and debate on the Israel-Palestine situation is a Big Muddy I've not yet cared to wade into so I don't have any carefully considered position.

On the other hand: ive gleaned that a great many scholars from a wide field and from different backgrounds all seem to agree that the Palestinians have some legitimate grievances.


Shall we take a trip around the world together asking if supporting a certain cause in that country means supporting the most extreme or militant aspect of it?. We can include the US among the examples if you want.

In fact, it would perfectly reasonable for an impartial outsider to mutter "a curse on both your houses" and go off to find something better to do.

At the moment, all Palestinian institutions are controlled by those who are totally opposed to even the idea of Israel. It's hard to say what the actual Palestinian people think, since all dissent is crushed by the PA (meaning the current Abu Mazen regime) on the West Bank and even more brutally by Hamas in Gaza.  Perhaps it is ironic..but Palestinians who live in Israel proper are far more free than those who live under the rule of fellow Palestinians.  Both the PA and Hamas encourage and sometimes directly engage in violence against Israel, and maintain wiping out Israel is an inseperable part of Palestinian nationhood. When they talk about the Occupation, they mean not just the West Bank, but also Israel proper. To them, Tel Aviv and Eilat are occupied territories. The PA in dealing with Westerners tries to wiggle out of saying this directly, but they are not do discreet when talking to other Arabs. Hamas is much more open, and much more likely to initiate violence (which is why the Israeli treatment of the West Bank is different from its treatment of Gaza.)  But this maximalist stance means that discussion of legitimate grievances (and there are more than a few) is a waste of breath.

Israel, on the other side, has a government which is not rejectionist per se, but sees no reason to negotiate with the PA as long as the PA holds to its current stance. Internal Israeli politics has an important role here. Basically, Netanyahu has more reason to ally himself with the Israeli right than the center or the left. (Yes, there are a number of Israeli poltical groups who are more hawkish than he is, and some whose rejection of Palestinians is as extreme as the Palestinian rejection of Israel.)

What is needed is for both sides to have leadership who are actually willing to co-exist with each other. But especially on the Palestinian side this seems something that will not happen anytime soon.  And when people like Corbyn actually condone or even justify terrorism and this maximalist stance, they are making it even more unlikely.

Offline Christo

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15684 on: March 17, 2019, 11:07:45 PM »
In fact, it would perfectly reasonable for an impartial outsider to mutter "a curse on both your houses" and go off to find something better to do.

At the moment, all Palestinian institutions are controlled by those who are totally opposed to even the idea of Israel. It's hard to say what the actual Palestinian people think, since all dissent is crushed by the PA (meaning the current Abu Mazen regime) on the West Bank and even more brutally by Hamas in Gaza.  Perhaps it is ironic..but Palestinians who live in Israel proper are far more free than those who live under the rule of fellow Palestinians.  Both the PA and Hamas encourage and sometimes directly engage in violence against Israel, and maintain wiping out Israel is an inseperable part of Palestinian nationhood. When they talk about the Occupation, they mean not just the West Bank, but also Israel proper. To them, Tel Aviv and Eilat are occupied territories. The PA in dealing with Westerners tries to wiggle out of saying this directly, but they are not do discreet when talking to other Arabs. Hamas is much more open, and much more likely to initiate violence (which is why the Israeli treatment of the West Bank is different from its treatment of Gaza.)  But this maximalist stance means that discussion of legitimate grievances (and there are more than a few) is a waste of breath.

Israel, on the other side, has a government which is not rejectionist per se, but sees no reason to negotiate with the PA as long as the PA holds to its current stance. Internal Israeli politics has an important role here. Basically, Netanyahu has more reason to ally himself with the Israeli right than the center or the left. (Yes, there are a number of Israeli poltical groups who are more hawkish than he is, and some whose rejection of Palestinians is as extreme as the Palestinian rejection of Israel.)

What is needed is for both sides to have leadership who are actually willing to co-exist with each other. But especially on the Palestinian side this seems something that will not happen anytime soon.  And when people like Corbyn actually condone or even justify terrorism and this maximalist stance, they are making it even more unlikely.
With all due respect, but I feel that you don't have an accurate idea of the 'reality on the ground'. I spent my last five Summers in both Israël and some Palestinian territories (Westbank only, but travelled along the Gaza strip and visited some settlements at the border) and this is not what I saw and learnt. The occupation is real, its effects are catastrophic, also for Israeli Palestinians (living as I do in the North, where they are a demographic but not political majority and where the explosion probably will start, somewhere in the near future), Westbank settlers are developing into extremist groups and 'official' politics is deadlocked, doesn't foresee any compromise, is still aimed at dismantling any effective Palestinian leadership. The 'rejection' politics is now predominantly a onesided Israeli affair; a tragedy and one that will cost dearly.  :-X
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Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15685 on: March 18, 2019, 09:50:53 AM »
With all due respect, but I feel that you don't have an accurate idea of the 'reality on the ground'. I spent my last five Summers in both Israël and some Palestinian territories (Westbank only, but travelled along the Gaza strip and visited some settlements at the border) and this is not what I saw and learnt. The occupation is real, its effects are catastrophic, also for Israeli Palestinians (living as I do in the North, where they are a demographic but not political majority and where the explosion probably will start, somewhere in the near future), Westbank settlers are developing into extremist groups and 'official' politics is deadlocked, doesn't foresee any compromise, is still aimed at dismantling any effective Palestinian leadership. The 'rejection' politics is now predominantly a onesided Israeli affair; a tragedy and one that will cost dearly.  :-X

I was painting a broad political picture.  In fact, of what you wrote, the only thing I disagree with is your belief that rejectionism is purely on the Israeli side.  Rejectionism dominates the Palestinian leadership, and because of that dismantling the Palestinian is more or less a sine qua non to reach any peaceful situation. 

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15686 on: March 18, 2019, 05:36:08 PM »
Yesterday I said Ilhan Omar was all over the place regarding Israel since her election to Congress. This week, apparently, she decided she is for the two state solution, and an end to violence.
https://www.salon.com/2019/03/18/rep-ilhan-omar-calls-for-a-two-state-solution-to-israel-palestine-conflict-in-new-op-ed/

Offline SimonNZ

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« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 01:27:02 AM by SimonNZ »

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15688 on: March 19, 2019, 08:04:57 AM »
At the moment, all Palestinian institutions are controlled by those who are totally opposed to even the idea of Israel. It's hard to say what the actual Palestinian people think, since all dissent is crushed by the PA (meaning the current Abu Mazen regime) on the West Bank and even more brutally by Hamas in Gaza.  Perhaps it is ironic..but Palestinians who live in Israel proper are far more free than those who live under the rule of fellow Palestinians.  Both the PA and Hamas encourage and sometimes directly engage in violence against Israel, and maintain wiping out Israel is an inseperable part of Palestinian nationhood. When they talk about the Occupation, they mean not just the West Bank, but also Israel proper. To them, Tel Aviv and Eilat are occupied territories. The PA in dealing with Westerners tries to wiggle out of saying this directly, but they are not do discreet when talking to other Arabs. Hamas is much more open, and much more likely to initiate violence (which is why the Israeli treatment of the West Bank is different from its treatment of Gaza.)  But this maximalist stance means that discussion of legitimate grievances (and there are more than a few) is a waste of breath.

You seem to speak as though the idea that the government of Israel is not legitimate is an utter absurdity. I find it not so clear. If all of the people who were driven out of the land claimed by Israel could return to the place they consider their home and vote, it is likely that Jews would not be the majority. It would not be a Jewish state.  And recently Israeli laws has been altered to give non-Jews a lower status than Jews. Not that any of Israel's neighbors are legitimate democracies either. But I no longer see Israel has having a clear moral high-ground in this conflict. (I thought differently when Israel had leaders of the calibre of Yitzak Rabin.) Frankly, I see Likud, Hamas and the PA to be on the same moral plane. Israel has overwhelming military dominance, which forces the Palestinian entities to the level of insurgents and guerrilla fighters. And ordinary Palestinians have to contend with Israeli occupation and the oppression of their own leaders, it not being clear which is worse.

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15689 on: March 19, 2019, 03:17:36 PM »
US official reveals Atlantic drilling plan while hailing Trump’s ability to distract public

"A top US official told a group of fossil fuel industry leaders that the Trump administration will soon issue a proposal making large portions of the Atlantic available for oil and gas development, and said that it is easier to work on such priorities because Donald Trump is skilled at sowing “absolutely thrilling” distractions, according to records of a meeting obtained by the Guardian.

Joe Balash, the assistant secretary for land and minerals management, was speaking to companies in the oil exploration business at a meeting of the International Association of Geophysical Contractors, or IAGC, last month.

“One of the things that I have found absolutely thrilling in working for this administration,” said Balash,“is the president has a knack for keeping the attention of the media and the public focused somewhere else while we do all the work that needs to be done on behalf of the American people.”

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15690 on: March 19, 2019, 03:21:16 PM »
State Department bars press corps from Pompeo briefing unless they work for “faith-based media,” won't release list of attendees or transcript.

"The State Department on Monday said it would not be distributing a transcript or list of attendees from a briefing call with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo held that evening -- a call from which the department's press corps was excluded and only "faith-based media" allowed.

The afternoon phone briefing was to discuss "international religious freedom" with the secretary -- who rarely participates in such calls -- ahead of his trip to the Middle East. One member of the State Department press corps was invited, only to be un-invited after RSVPing. That reporter was told that the call was for "faith-based media only."

CNN also RSVP'd to organizers, asking to be included, but received no reply.

Despite repeated inquires and complaints from members of the press corps who are based at the department, the State Department on Monday night said they would not be providing a transcript of the call, a list of faith-based media outlets who were allowed to participate or the criteria to be invited."

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15691 on: March 19, 2019, 03:31:22 PM »
The real reason the Trump administration is constantly losing in court

"Federal judges have ruled against the Trump administration at least 63 times over the past two years, an extraordinary record of legal defeat that has stymied large parts of the president’s agenda on the environment, immigration and other matters.

In case after case, judges have rebuked Trump officials for failing to follow the most basic rules of governance, including providing legitimate explanations for shifts in policy, supported by facts and, where required, public input.

[...]

“What they have consistently been doing is short-circuiting the process,” said Georgetown Law School’s William Buzbee, an expert on administrative law who has studied Trump’s record. In the regulatory cases, Buzbee said, “They don’t even come close” to explaining their actions, “making it very easy for the courts to reject them because they’re not doing their homework.”

Two-thirds of the cases accuse the Trump administration of violating the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), a 73-year-old law that forms the primary bulwark against arbitrary rule. The normal “win rate” for the government in such cases is about 70 percent, according to analysts and studies. But as of mid-January, a database maintained by the Institute for Policy Integrity at the New York University School of Law shows Trump’s win rate at about 6 percent.

Seth Jaffe, a Boston-based environmental lawyer who represents corporations and had been looking forward to deregulation under Trump, said he has been frustrated by the administration’s failure to deliver.

“I’ve spent 30 years in the private sector complaining about the excesses of environmental regulation,” Jaffe said, but “this administration has given regulatory reform a bad name.”

Some errors are so basic that Jaffe said he has to wonder whether agency officials are more interested in announcing policy shifts than in actually implementing them. “It’s not just that they’re losing. But they’re being so nuts about it,” he said, adding that the losses in court have “set regulatory reform back for a period of time.”

Contributing to the losing record has been Trump himself. His reported comments about “shithole countries,” for example, helped convince U.S. District Judge Edward Chen in San Francisco that the administration’s decision to end “temporary protected status” for hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Central America, Haiti and Sudan was motivated by racial and ethnic bias.

At least a dozen decisions have involved Trump’s tweets or comments.

Offline Rinaldo

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15692 on: March 21, 2019, 02:45:08 AM »

Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15693 on: March 21, 2019, 02:54:27 PM »
Elizabeth Warren versus the current head of the Consumer Finance Protection Board, another Trump appointed scumbag:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAafy88VY7I



Offline drogulus

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15696 on: March 21, 2019, 07:01:34 PM »

     25 States Are at Risk of Serious Flooding This Spring, U.S. Forecast Says

     I suppose there's a kind of justice that the heart of Trump country is devastated by the Chinese Hoax.
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Offline drogulus

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #15699 on: March 22, 2019, 04:47:33 PM »
Jared Kushner using WhatsApp to speak to foreign contacts, top Democrat says

"Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s senior adviser and son-in-law, uses the online messaging service WhatsApp for official business – including communication with foreign contacts, according to a new letter from congressional investigators.

The letter, sent to the White House by the House oversight committee chairman, Elijah Cummings, on Thursday, also says Ivanka Trump, Kushner’s wife and the president’s daughter, is not preserving all of her official emails, as required by federal law.

The new disclosures came in the letter to the White House counsel Pat Cipollone, and demands documents related to the use of personal email and messaging accounts by White House aides.

“The White House’s failure to provide documents and information is obstructing the committee’s investigation into allegations of violations of federal records laws by White House officials,” Cummings, the Maryland Democrat, wrote.

The Presidential Records Act prohibits senior White House officials from using non-official email or messaging accounts for government business, unless they send copies of the messages to their official accounts.

Abbe Lowell, a lawyer for Kushner and Ivanka Trump, told the committee in December that Kushner was still using WhatsApp as part of his official duties at the White House, including for communications with people outside the United States.

Kushner is the Trump administration’s point man on Middle East policy. CNN reported last year he was communicating on WhatsApp with the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman.

Lowell said that Kushner complied with the records law by taking screenshots of his messages in the app and sending them to his White House email, according to the letter. But he could not tell investigators whether Kushner had sent classified information through WhatsApp, saying: “That’s above my pay grade.”

Ivanka Trump has continued to receive email related to official business on her personal email account, and does not forward a message to her official account unless she replies to it, Lowell told the committee.

“This would appear to violate the Presidential Records Act,” Cummings wrote.

Other White House officials have also used personal email for official business, the letter says.

KT McFarland, when she was deputy national security adviser, used her personal AOL account, according to a document cited by the committee.

Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon also received documents related to an effort to transfer nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia at a personal email address, the letter says.

Cummings said that when it was under Republican control in March 2017, his committee started investigating whether White House officials were using personal email and messaging accounts to conduct official business.

He said that Trump’s White House had so far failed to provide documents and information, and demanded that they turn over the information by 4 April. He asked for a list of all White House officials who have used personal email for official business."