Author Topic: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?  (Read 20631 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jeffrey Smith

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 10118
    • Flickr photostream
  • Location: Florida
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #580 on: August 07, 2017, 07:05:23 AM »
just to be sure, the EMI you're talking about is this one?



To be frank, it's not one of my favorite operas, other than the bravura soprano arias and the Bacarolle.  I've only got two recordings: the Clutens and the Bonynge.  I've seen it once on TV.  I think it was this production, but with different singers


Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #581 on: August 07, 2017, 07:16:02 AM »
just to be sure, the EMI you're talking about is this one?
...

To be frank, it's not one of my favorite operas, other than the bravura soprano arias and the Bacarolle.  I've only got two recordings: the Clutens and the Bonynge.  I've seen it once on TV.  I think it was this production, but with different singers

No, that's the Erato (or: was), but I guess it's one of the best around.

This is the EMI (real EMI) I've ordered:



That DVD is on my pile, and this is no. 3:

Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Jeffrey Smith

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 10118
    • Flickr photostream
  • Location: Florida
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #582 on: August 07, 2017, 07:24:15 AM »
Come to think of it, I may have the EMI you ordered. I'll have to look.  But the first review on AmazonUS for that recording is rather scathing about the edition the used.

Quote
The statement on the back of the CD box reads "in the Critical Edition by Fritz Oeser, with additional material from the Choudens Edition," though exactly what comes from the Choudens is nowhere explained. Oeser's work on Hoffmann from the start came under stong critical attack. He cut material of Offenbach's from Act One to balance it with Act Five. Throughout most of the work he retained the spurious recitatives by Guiraud. He re-orchestrated material as he saw fit. He utilized a song for Nicklausse in the Olympia act that Offenbach never orchestrated (Oeser did that himself) and discarded the famous song that Offenbach replaced it with and did orchestrate. He used the piano score for a discarded Nicklausse number in the Olympia act, wrote lyrics and orchestrated it, and placed it in the the final act for the Muse. His version of the Giulietta act heavily incorporates music from Der Rheinnixen; I've no idea where the lyrics come from. This is clearly a spurious text.

The Nagano and the DVD I posted use the Kaye edition, which seems to be the most recent.

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #583 on: August 07, 2017, 09:04:58 AM »
Come to think of it, I may have the EMI you ordered. I'll have to look.  But the first review on AmazonUS for that recording is rather scathing about the edition the used.

The Nagano and the DVD I posted use the Kaye edition, which seems to be the most recent.

Yes Kaye (and I think independently Keck) is (are) the third and most recent edition(s) - it's a mess really, and I think as recently as one or two years an autograph of a large part (acts 1 and 2 I seem to dimly remember) was found ... new stuff has come up after Oeser and after Kaye.

The DVD I just watched from Liceu seems to mostly use the Oeser edition and points out in a short note in the booklet that this is the edition that has Nicklaussee/The Muse play a more important part that the other editions - which is cool if you Anne Sofie von Otter singing (and acting! impressive!) that part. But I guess most productions will nowadays use their own mix of bits from this and that edition (while using one edition as starting point).

The Munich production from 2011 that I just saw (it was brought back for two evenings during the Opernfestpiele) used Kaye/Keck (so maybe it's not Kaye but Kaye/Keck, but I've seen both names separately ... would have to read it all up again, I'm sure there's an exhaustive wiki entry somewhere). But again, some autographs (not just that big one I mention above) and other things have been found in the meantime, so it's indeed a huge work in progress with Schnitter Tod [aka the grim reaper] playing one of the minor roles (can't quite blame Offenbach - I nearly wrote Hoffmann, ha! - for that ...)

--

PS: and actually, this here's my fourth video version - Nagano (Kaye) again:

« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 10:11:27 AM by king ubu »
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Jeffrey Smith

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 10118
    • Flickr photostream
  • Location: Florida
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #584 on: August 07, 2017, 01:31:31 PM »
Yes Kaye (and I think independently Keck) is (are) the third and most recent edition(s) - it's a mess really, and I think as recently as one or two years an autograph of a large part (acts 1 and 2 I seem to dimly remember) was found ... new stuff has come up after Oeser and after Kaye.

The DVD I just watched from Liceu seems to mostly use the Oeser edition and points out in a short note in the booklet that this is the edition that has Nicklaussee/The Muse play a more important part that the other editions - which is cool if you Anne Sofie von Otter singing (and acting! impressive!) that part. But I guess most productions will nowadays use their own mix of bits from this and that edition (while using one edition as starting point).

The Munich production from 2011 that I just saw (it was brought back for two evenings during the Opernfestpiele) used Kaye/Keck (so maybe it's not Kaye but Kaye/Keck, but I've seen both names separately ... would have to read it all up again, I'm sure there's an exhaustive wiki entry somewhere). But again, some autographs (not just that big one I mention above) and other things have been found in the meantime, so it's indeed a huge work in progress with Schnitter Tod [aka the grim reaper] playing one of the minor roles (can't quite blame Offenbach - I nearly wrote Hoffmann, ha! - for that ...)

--

PS: and actually, this here's my fourth video version - Nagano (Kaye) again:



That DVD must have come from the same production as the CD I posted, so you are covered on that end. But even the DVD used the phrase "adaption based on..."

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #585 on: August 07, 2017, 01:46:41 PM »
That DVD must have come from the same production as the CD I posted, so you are covered on that end. But even the DVD used the phrase "adaption based on..."

Yep, I think so too, but haven't watched it yet ... but as I said, I think it's one of the standard performances.

Depending on what you look for though, the early French production by Cluytens has enormous charm (the late forties one reissued by Naxos, that is, not the EMI one, which is also plenty good though). Again: work in progress - you can't have the original French charm, the spoken voices and all, plus good sound plus "correct" edition ...  there's really no correct here, I think, as it all belongs to the history of this opera - it's more like different chapters of interpretation and history of reception etc.

Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Tsaraslondon

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1705
    • My blog
  • Location: London, UK
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #586 on: August 07, 2017, 10:59:22 PM »
Yep, I think so too, but haven't watched it yet ... but as I said, I think it's one of the standard performances.

Depending on what you look for though, the early French production by Cluytens has enormous charm (the late forties one reissued by Naxos, that is, not the EMI one, which is also plenty good though). Again: work in progress - you can't have the original French charm, the spoken voices and all, plus good sound plus "correct" edition ...  there's really no correct here, I think, as it all belongs to the history of this opera - it's more like different chapters of interpretation and history of reception etc.



This is a recording I want to hear. I heard snippets on BBC Radio 3's Building a Library programme. The reviewer liked it very much, and, I seem to remember, made it his historical choice. I really liked what I heard of it.

On CD I still maintain an affection for Bonynge, though there are huge question marks over the edition he used.



Sutherland is fabulous as Olympia, not quite so convincing as Giulietta and Antonia (her mushy diction drives me potty as usual) and Domingo excellent as Hoffmann.

I also like  the DVD from the spectacular Covent Garden production, also with Domingo, and a terrific trio of ladies in Luciana Serra, Ileana Cotrubas and Agnes Baltsa.



\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Online Spineur

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1778
  • Magdalena Kozena, Felicity Lott with love
  • Location: Grenoble
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mozart & friends
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #587 on: August 09, 2017, 10:56:50 AM »
Verdi, Aida; live broadcast from the chorégie d'Orange.  You can watch it on culturebox.fr

https://culturebox.francetvinfo.fr/amp/opera-classique/opera/choregies-d-orange/aida-de-verdi-aux-choregies-d-orange-2017-259813

Note added: The staging wasnt to my taste, but vocally it was quite fine with Anita Rachvelishvili as Amneris, Marcelo Alvarez as Radames, and Elena O'Connor as Aida.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 01:46:03 AM by Spineur »
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #588 on: August 09, 2017, 10:33:44 PM »
Watched the Salzburg La Clemenza di Tito (Currentzis/Sellars) last night ... great stuff, all things considered! Some amazing singing and acting, and I enjoyed the add-ons (parts of the great mass, and as a closer the Maurerische Trauermusik) ... it all made sense musically, and it worked quite well altogether. However, no matter how good the production, the singing (what a fine chorus!) and playing, no matter how the piece was changed and in many respects improved (by the various additions and interpretative twists) as far as theatrical aspects go, it's still an opera seria and not very lively thing ... but yeah, I liked it a lot, and I guess better than I liked it in my limited exposure so far (I think I've only heard the Colin Davis recording with a fine cast of somewhat too similar sounding singers).
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #589 on: August 11, 2017, 04:23:19 AM »
And back with Hoffmann we are:



Another old/botched version in so-so sound, but very lively indeed! And even though the sound is not exactly great, you can hear the voices - and what voices! Sándor Kónya as Hoffmann, Gabriel Bacquier as the evil dudes (Lindorf, Coppélius, Dapertutto, Miracle), Mady Mesplé comme Olympia, Heather Harper and Radmila Bakocevic as Antonio and Giulietta, respectively ... Peter Maag is at the head of the orchestra and chorus of the Teatro Colón, and he's doing a heckuva job, methinks!

Here's a review: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=389184
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline mc ukrneal

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8024
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #590 on: August 11, 2017, 11:25:50 AM »
On CD I still maintain an affection for Bonynge, though there are huge question marks over the edition he used.

Maybe, but the same question marks loom over any edition, since Offenbach died before the premiere. If you compare all the editions on disc and DVD, they will all be different. And it is hard to hold the older versions to a standard that didn't exist back then (or had not advanced to where it is today), assuming one feels that the changes are improvements at all.
Offenbach gets a raw deal in recordings considering his talent! For a discussion of this outstanding composer too little recorded: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5572.

Online Spineur

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1778
  • Magdalena Kozena, Felicity Lott with love
  • Location: Grenoble
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mozart & friends
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #591 on: August 11, 2017, 12:27:57 PM »
Continuing my listening of the Voix/recital box.  This time I turned to some of the male singers
Richard Tucker, Placido Domingo, Sherrill Milnes, George London.  Still have to listen to John Vickers.



George London disk is marvelous.  I found the young Placido Domingo from this recital excellent, and certainly better than some of his live performances I attended.  Milnes recital has apparently never been released before on CD, a marvelous testimony.

 
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Online Spineur

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1778
  • Magdalena Kozena, Felicity Lott with love
  • Location: Grenoble
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mozart & friends
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #592 on: August 12, 2017, 02:16:56 AM »
Donizetti, La Favorita
Richard Bonygne,  Fiorenza Cossotto, Gabriel Bacquier, Luciano Pavarotti, Nicolai Ghiaurov



This is my first listen of this opera, and I am under the charm.  All singers are quite good.  In the middle of the second act there is a 20 minutes ballet: its orchestral score in very lively and entertaining.  I will return to this 3CD set.
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Online Spineur

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1778
  • Magdalena Kozena, Felicity Lott with love
  • Location: Grenoble
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mozart & friends
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #593 on: August 12, 2017, 12:21:47 PM »
Another live broadcast of Aida but this time from Salzburg festival.  More money has been comitted to the staging but it is pretty ridiculous with chorus wearing Christian.orthodox outfits and others bull skulls.  Overall everything looks and sound stiff.  I doubt I will last to the end.  At least I didnt pay 300€ or more for a seat.
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #594 on: August 13, 2017, 10:20:34 AM »


Since it's only a bit over a week that I'll catch Monteverdi's L'Orfeo live (Gardiner at Lucerne Festival), I felt like revisiting one of the recordings around ... this one's wonderfully played and sung, and somehow very tight and compact, but I guess Anthony Rolfe Johnson will be my favourite Orfeo on record. Have yet to play the Jacobs, Garrido and Haďm recordings though, the third one next to Gardiner and the above on I have already played is the Venexiana/Cavina one.

Anyway, after that I also watched Verdi's Aida from Salzburg ... I'd say it's quite nice, all in all, and wonderfully played and most of the time sung (Semenchuk will never be my favourite, I'm afraid (saw her sing Eboli at La Scala earlier this year and had an even stronger reaction that now on TV ... gotta revisit the Harteros/Kaufmann "Aida" to check her out as Amneris again). Stage and costumes looked gorgeous, but that's not quite enough of course - some acting would have been very welcome, even more so watching on TV where you get all the close-ups (and often miss what little "action" there was - this singer walking five meters to the left, that singer waving with arms, five minutes later another singer walking seven meters to the front right ... you get the idea).



Still not quite enough opera for the day, it seems, so this new arrival is in the player for the first time now, Verdi again with La Traviata, as conducted by maestro Krips.

Not familiar with Cotrubas all that much yet ... and frankly in Kleiber's take on "La Traviata" I consider her one of the weaker spots - let's see how she acquits herself in a live setting. (Note to self: play that Pritchard recording of "L'elisir d'amore" soon to check out her Adina ... and the Giulini "Rigoletto" for her Gilda - somehow I feel her voice could be just right there).
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline mc ukrneal

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8024
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #595 on: August 13, 2017, 01:21:50 PM »
Not familiar with Cotrubas all that much yet ... and frankly in Kleiber's take on "La Traviata" I consider her one of the weaker spots - let's see how she acquits herself in a live setting. (Note to self: play that Pritchard recording of "L'elisir d'amore" soon to check out her Adina ... and the Giulini "Rigoletto" for her Gilda - somehow I feel her voice could be just right there).
She's wonderful alongside von stade in Hansel and Gretel (interestingly, also with Pritchard). It's an excellent set.
Offenbach gets a raw deal in recordings considering his talent! For a discussion of this outstanding composer too little recorded: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5572.

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #596 on: August 14, 2017, 12:57:51 AM »
She's wonderful alongside von stade in Hansel and Gretel (interestingly, also with Pritchard). It's an excellent set.

Now there's an opera I don't know at all so far.

But I'm just figuring out what day might work out to see the new "Le grand macabre" production in Lucerne in September or October!

And I'm planning to catch the new Sciarrino opera in Milano in November (ciao Giocar!)
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Tsaraslondon

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1705
    • My blog
  • Location: London, UK
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #597 on: August 14, 2017, 02:36:24 PM »
Still have to listen to John Vickers.




The Vickers disc is superb.
\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Offline Tsaraslondon

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1705
    • My blog
  • Location: London, UK
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #598 on: August 14, 2017, 02:42:22 PM »

Not familiar with Cotrubas all that much yet ... and frankly in Kleiber's take on "La Traviata" I consider her one of the weaker spots - let's see how she acquits herself in a live setting. (Note to self: play that Pritchard recording of "L'elisir d'amore" soon to check out her Adina ... and the Giulini "Rigoletto" for her Gilda - somehow I feel her voice could be just right there).

Though no one is quite in the Callas class in the role of Violetta, I rather like Cotrubas in it, and like her in the Kleiber recording, which is, in any case, my favourite studio set of the opera. I saw Cotrubas in the role at Covent Garden, and she was incredibly affecting.

I also like her in the Pritchard L'Elisir d'Amore.
\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3018
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: What Opera Are You Listening to Now?
« Reply #599 on: August 15, 2017, 01:04:30 AM »
Though no one is quite in the Callas class in the role of Violetta, I rather like Cotrubas in it, and like her in the Kleiber recording, which is, in any case, my favourite studio set of the opera. I saw Cotrubas in the role at Covent Garden, and she was incredibly affecting.

I also like her in the Pritchard L'Elisir d'Amore.

Somehow, for myself, I have come to the sad conclusion that the perfect recording of La Traviata doesn't really exist. But I'll have to revisit the Kleiber. Enjoyed Cotrubas and the entire Krips recording quite some.

That Pritchard set of L'elisir d'amore was your recommendation a few months back, when I mentioned listening to the Bonynge and attending a live performance under the baton of Nello Santi, right? I bought it back then but it hasn't yet made it into the player.
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Buying Music From Amazon?
Please consider using these links. A small percentage of every sale using these links is passed on to GMG and helps keep this forum online.
Amazon US
Amazon Canada
Amazon UK