Author Topic: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler  (Read 1486 times)

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Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« on: April 26, 2017, 05:25:41 AM »
If anyone happens to have the Berlin recordings of Haitink's Mahler 6th and 7th in a European edition and in reasonably good condition, I would consider trading them for the complete set of the Berlin Haitink Mahler (1-7) on Japanese Decca (brand new but no longer sealed). Perhaps topped off with a little something.


#morninglistening to #Mahler w/@berlinphil:http://a-fwd.to/1x47Hp4

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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 04:52:56 PM »
I have Haitink/BPO's EU No.7 in a fat jewel case, but my Haitink/BPO Mahler 6 is from Japan, so I guess you're not interested. If you don't mind my asking, why do you want to trade your Japanese Mahler set for the individual 6 and 7 issues?
Hans

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 09:28:34 PM »
I have Haitink/BPO's EU No.7 in a fat jewel case, but my Haitink/BPO Mahler 6 is from Japan, so I guess you're not interested. If you don't mind my asking, why do you want to trade your Japanese Mahler set for the individual 6 and 7 issues?

Actually, that would work; Haitink/BPO's EU No.7 is the last one I'm missing now, since I've found Haitink/BPO Mahler 6 since posting this.

The reason is that I want the liner notes in English and I prefer the way the works are split across the discs in the individual releases. Ideally I'd repack the original issues into the Japanese clam-shell -- but it's not big enough for that. Together ith a friend in the record industry, I'm looking into the possibility of reproducing individual clam-shell cases to a professional standard at a reasonable price - so perhaps I'll be able to make my own case at some point.

Any chance I could get my hands on your seventh, meanwhile? Perhaps by getting you the Japanese SHM-CD version?

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 08:02:05 AM »
Maybe I got it wrong, but I was originally under the impression you wanted to trade your Japanese Haitink/BPO Mahler 1-7 set for EU Nos.6 and 7. Now that you managed to find a EU No.6 I guess that offer is off the table. Sorry, but trading my EU No.7 for a Japanese pressing doesn't sound very attractive to me, the more so since overseas shipping would be rather expensive for me, especially if you're in the US.
Hans

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 09:14:34 AM »
Maybe I got it wrong, but I was originally under the impression you wanted to trade your Japanese Haitink/BPO Mahler 1-7 set for EU Nos.6 and 7.

That is correct...

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Now that you managed to find a EU No.6 I guess that offer is off the table. Sorry, but trading my EU No.7 for a Japanese pressing doesn't sound very attractive to me, the more so since overseas shipping would be rather expensive for me, especially if you're in the US.

Shipping wouldn't be the problem, since I have a German address to send things to... but I understand your trepidation. :-)

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 10:24:27 AM »
Sorry, but even with cheaper shipping trading my EU 7 for a Japanese one is not a good deal for me.
Hans

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 10:35:35 AM »
Sorry, but even with cheaper shipping trading my EU 7 for a Japanese one is not a good deal for me.

Well, obviously I wouldn't do it either... :-)
But of course I wasn't suggesting that as a 1:1 deal. It could easily be sweetened.

Here's some other trade-bait:

Bruckner, Jaap van Zweden, Challenge Classics, SACDs, Nos. 1, 3, 8.

Sibelius Symphonies 1-7, Berlin Philharmonic, Rattle (CD & Blu-ray)

Abbado, the last Concert, Berlin Philharmonic (CD & Blu-ray)

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 10:51:05 AM »
Sorry, not interested in those. Van Zweden and Rattle are no favourites of mine, on the contrary, and I've got more Abbado than I'll probably be listening to for the rest of my life :)
Hans

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2017, 11:00:10 AM »
Sorry, not interested in those. Van Zweden and Rattle are no favourites of mine, on the contrary, and I've got more Abbado than I'll probably be listening to for the rest of my life :)
I can't see for the life of me how that guy got the gig as next music director of the NYPO.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 11:01:58 AM »
Sorry, not interested in those. Van Zweden and Rattle are no favourites of mine, on the contrary, and I've got more Abbado than I'll probably be listening to for the rest of my life :)

Hehe... there's a reason they're on the trading block. Well, not van Zweden, actually, whose Bruckner I think very highly of. Those are simply duplicates since I've got the complete set now.
The Abbado -- some like him and there are lots of late recordings I do consider great -- is quite a dud. But a very nicely presented set, it must be said.

What are some of your favorites? (Composers and their respective interpreters.)

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 11:03:22 AM »
I can't see for the life of me how that guy got the gig as next music director of the NYPO.

Really? I must say that I've been quite impressed every time I heard him live, with Dallas or other orchestras. Bit under the radar, but unspectacular, and allegedly he's capable of being quite the a-hole, but musically I've found him super solid in that very best sense... Like when you sit in a concert and it oozes quality without any particular "take"; rather than just being middling-good.

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 11:16:53 AM »
Hehe... there's a reason they're on the trading block. Well, not van Zweden, actually, whose Bruckner I think very highly of. Those are simply duplicates since I've got the complete set now.
The Abbado -- some like him and there are lots of late recordings I do consider great -- is quite a dud. But a very nicely presented set, it must be said.

What are some of your favorites? (Composers and their respective interpreters.)

My taste ranges from Baroque to 20th Century composers, and I don't really have favourite overall interpreters - that depends on the pieces. My classical collection is fairly large and at the moment there's not anything I'm looking for, so let's leave it at that.

As for Van Zweden, I attended quite a few Concertgebouw Orchestra concerts back in the 1980s, when he was still their concertmaster. His conducting never did anything for me and I was surprised to learn that he's the next music director of the NYPO; they must have been desperate...
Hans

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 11:18:06 AM »
Really? I must say that I've been quite impressed every time I heard him live, with Dallas or other orchestras. Bit under the radar, but unspectacular, and allegedly he's capable of being quite the a-hole, but musically I've found him super solid in that very best sense... Like when you sit in a concert and it oozes quality without any particular "take"; rather than just being middling-good.
Not sure what exactly he brings to the table. Orchestras more or less play Bruckner on auto-pilot nowadays. I don't see any special repertoire that he specializes in or champions. I would have thought someone like Marin Alsop or Joann Falletta or if you want to go after bigger names Andrew Litton, Daniel Gatti or Paavo Jarvi would have been better choices. With Alsop or Falletta or Litton at least you got the added benefit of giving the job to home grown talent.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 11:35:06 AM »
Not sure what exactly he brings to the table. Orchestras more or less play Bruckner on auto-pilot nowadays. I don't see any special repertoire that he specializes in or champions. I would have thought someone like Marin Alsop or Joann Falletta or if you want to go after bigger names Andrew Litton, Daniel Gatti or Paavo Jarvi would have been better choices. With Alsop or Falletta or Litton at least you got the added benefit of giving the job to home grown talent.

Litton is not really a bigger name at all; Gatti would be, but is unreliable (though GRRRRREAT when he's on) and in any case has Paris... Paavo doesn't fit the idea of the man being dedicated to the New York Job, rather than being a jet-setter involved with 127 other orchestras, and Alsop and Falletta are, frankly, a joke. Alsop less so; she is a super competent Kapellmeister in B'more and with the OSESP, but hardly an improvement over any number of male candidates that certainly would not be considered. And the NYP, after not getting Muti, has shown they are not going for PR stunts (which a female candidate would be), but solid rehearsers and programmers. I think the are coming out of the Gilbert years emboldened that picking the not-so-obvious, not-so-sexy candidate that might have be 8th choice with another orchestra (as Gilbert was himself when they initially settled for him) may actually work out quite well. I've heard Jaap van Zweeden in Wagner, Bruckner, Stucky, Strauss, Mahler, Korngold... A quality conductor for the NYP needn't have a shtick... and I think the orchestra -- which is also announcing: WE are the star; we needn't have a starry name-recognition conductor -- will be so much better off with him than a boring-as-can-be baton-titan like Muti, whom they initially wanted so badly. I certainly think they don't want a specialist. They want someone who can do it all and well. Specialists get invited as guest conductors. And home-grown they've had, with Gilbert... there's really no pressing need to choose one conductor over another for their background. And Zweeden has experience with the American system from Houston... that part of "home-grown" certainly does count. Knowing how to court donors et al. and how to deal with the press.

Wrote a bit about his appointment here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/01/27/new-york-philharmonic-appoints-dallas-jaap-van-zweden-as-new-music-director/#540b01d844fb

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Some ten years after that recording he traded the bow for the baton and worked his way up through the provincial orchestras of the Netherlands, first in Enschede, then in The Hague, then in Hilversum and finally in Antwerp (which is, if one is going to be nitpicky, in Belgium, not the Netherlands). This brought about the second time I noticed him, when out of nowhere Philips issued what was the first Beethoven cycle recorded in the Super Audio format (with The Hague’s Residentie Orchestra). I didn’t bite, because I was as skeptical as I was surprised, but the reviews were promising.

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From the Netherlands, Jaap van Zweden followed Andrew Litton as the music director of the Dallas Symphony where he continued to increase the orchestra’s profile and, by all accounts, quality. It is with this orchestra that I heard van Zweden first, live, when the Texans stopped in Munich to deliver a top-notch program of Wagner-Stucky-Strauss-Korngold. More recently, I heard him with the venerable but moody Vienna Philharmonic at Vienna’s Konzerthaus in what turned out a most gratifying Bruckner Eighth Symphony. Any conductor, no less substituting for a more famous colleague (Yannick Nézet-Séguin, in this case), who can make the Vienna Phil play very good Bruckner at 11AM, impresses me.

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he scene is set for him to impress with quality work—much like his alleged co-contender for the position, Manfred Honeck who is doing marvelous, slightly low-key work in Pittsburgh—while leaving the more breathless headlines about conductors to his colleagues in Boston, LA, and Philadelphia.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2017, 07:05:57 AM »
Well maybe Alsop and Falletta are jokes like you said but no more of a joke than when they appointed Gilbert. Wasn't there a rumor that Christian Thielemann was in the running? Certainly a big name that conducted every big orchestra you can name and seem to be very charismatic and carries a lot of podium allure.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2017, 10:34:23 AM »
Well maybe Alsop and Falletta are jokes like you said but no more of a joke than when they appointed Gilbert. Wasn't there a rumor that Christian Thielemann was in the running? Certainly a big name that conducted every big orchestra you can name and seem to be very charismatic and carries a lot of podium allure.

I don't think that Thielemann was even remotely considered, for a host of reasons.
Very selective appeal and saddled with political baggage which, although probably just anecdotal, is enough to torpedo his candidacy.
Also he's said that he won't conduct in the US anymore, so there's that minor aspect. And he's obnoxiously difficult to work with. (I love him as a musician, though.)
Sort of Thomas Sanderling-level. And I think highly of him. But a "joke" as far as consideration for the NYP is concerned.
You're quite right that Gilbert was kind of a joke, too. But I think it worked out well for the NYP and they have emerged strengthened from the experience... that it helped them realize that they don't need to shoot for the "big name" if they think the ingredients are right, otherwise.

And don't get me wrong, I think that Alsop is a very fine conductor.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2017, 12:34:26 PM »
I don't think that Thielemann was even remotely considered, for a host of reasons.
And don't get me wrong, I think that Alsop is a very fine conductor. Very selective appeal and saddled with political baggage which, although probably just anecdotal, is enough to torpedo his candidacy.
Also he's said that he won't conduct in the US anymore, so there's that minor aspect. And he's obnoxiously difficult to work with. (I love him as a musician, though.)
Sort of Thomas Sanderling-level. And I think highly of him. But a "joke" as far as consideration for the NYP is concerned.
You're quite right that Gilbert was kind of a joke, too. But I think it worked out well for the NYP and they have emerged strengthened from the experience... that it helped them realize that they don't need to shoot for the "big name" if they think the ingredients are right, otherwise.

Just to be clear the entire post above refers to Thielemann right? The only thing that refers to Alsop is that she is a very fine conductor?

I sort of like Thielemann because he is pretty old school as far as interpretations go. In this day and age where even veteran conductors try to incorporate "HIP" elements into their performances he tries to find new ways to express himself in fairly traditional readings of the score.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haitink Berlin Mahler for Haitink Berlin Mahler
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2017, 01:45:23 PM »
Just to be clear the entire post above refers to Thielemann right? The only thing that refers to Alsop is that she is a very fine conductor?

I sort of like Thielemann because he is pretty old school as far as interpretations go. In this day and age where even veteran conductors try to incorporate "HIP" elements into their performances he tries to find new ways to express himself in fairly traditional readings of the score.

Ah, yes. Cut-n-paste error. But you interpreted it correctly.

He's very much a musician and very spontaneous and he's got an incomparable feel for the moment.

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