Author Topic: CD ripping  (Read 1408 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2017, 05:44:09 AM »
Thanks for answering my questions Todd. I downloaded dBPoweramp onto my Mac as a test and am very impressed with what it does. I ripped the first three sets from the Rubinstein box (14 CDs) to my Verbatim HD and was surprised how quickly it ripped the FLAC. The metadata is variable - on some CDs it lists composer, work, etc but on others it just gives the tempo and maybe an opus number. I think I can go back in and edit if I want to. I'll buy a new HD and start from scratch after transferring the 14 CDs I've already done.

With dbpoweramp be sure to click the thing which allows you to compare the metadata from different databases, it's in the metadata tab somewhere, I think it's called "review perfectmeta options", very often the metadata  that dbpoweramp defaults to is not the best available. I may not have the latest version, mine is about 8 years old!

The only other metadata tool I use is foobar because it's very good at taking tags from file names or from lists saved to the notebook. Foobar is also pretty quick at editing existing tags, much much better than dbpoweramp in fact.

Sometimes, rarely, dbpoweramp just will not rip a CD. It just sits there and refuses. Foobar is very good in a situation like that, or monkey. It's also a good idea to have a second disc drive in case the problem lies there.

For me foobar is essential for ripping SACDs and DVD Audios because I need to bring down the sampling bitrate to stream. This is probably a limitation of squeezebox.

Monkey's facility for taking tags from Amazon is useful.

Has anyone explored the factors which effect the speed of a rip?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 06:00:03 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2017, 12:19:19 AM »
A few months ago I wanted to listen to one of my CDs, but I ran into a problem: I couldn’t find it.  My collection has grown so large and unruly that I have abandoned racks and rely on floor-bound stacks, out of any semblance of order.  While obviously a problem born of self-indulgence and affluenza, I decided it was time to fix the problem.  I decided to rip a major portion of my collection to allow for immediate access to whatever I may want to hear, and since Amazon offers unlimited online storage for $60/year, equal to Backblaze but with a helpful UI, I figured now was a good time to rip away and store off-site for personal disaster recovery purposes.  (When the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits, if it is at the high end of projections, my home stands a greater than 50% chance of being leveled, and if I survive the quake, I will want access to some form of entertainment at some point.)

I've used EAC to occasionally rip discs since the turn of the century, and it is reliable with superb error correction.  But it can be slow, and it is not really optimized for retrieving metadata.  This is especially true with Asian market releases, of which I have not a few.  Fortunately, Windows Media Player also rips nicely, and it's metadata retrieval and tagging is better, and it actually retrieves Japanese market metadata for almost every title I ripped.  I started off ripping my LvB sonata cycle collection, which took a while, before switching to artist-based big boxes, which is now mostly done, which means that I have started in on the rest of my collection proper.  Along the way, I had to swap out drives to a nice enough Asus 48x spinner.  But what really ended up being helpful was switching to dBpoweramp for ripping.  It's metadata system is much better than EAC or Media Player, and it's much better than going back and using foobar to tag after the fact.  I'm not a big fan of MediaMonkey's interface, finding dBpoweramp easier and quicker to use.  The cover image search and upload functions are simple and quick, whether at initial rip or after the fact, and the often times multiple metadata sets for tracks that are offered up for each disc make choosing the right one easy.  Of course, the “catch” is that the software is not free, but at $50-ish for two licenses, and about $5/year going forward, it's not spendy, either. 

Now it's my go-to, though on discs that have errors (ie, discs available in AccurateRip where ultra-secure ripping kicks in), I switch to EAC to rip affected tracks as it works faster in every case.  More than half the time when ultra-secure kicks in, the program ends up re-ripping by frame, and that just takes too long.

When I started ripping, I did some A/Bs between WAV and FLAC, and sure enough, they sound the same, so I went with FLAC for almost all ripping.  I also compared encoding levels, and ended up sticking with level 5 for a size/decoding sweet-spot.  I use Oppos as transports, and the 10x and forward players have gapless playback as a standard function, so now I just plug in an external hard drive loaded with music and go.  It's immense fun to be able to sift through titles and do A/Bs on a whim.  I'm closing in on three thousand ripped discs, and have about another three thousand or so to go before I'm done.  I do not plan on ripping my opera collection since I don't listen to a lot of opera these days, and if/when I return to listening to more of it, I won't be doing any A/B listening, or skipping around from one act in Opera X to another act in Opera Y.  I've also regained some floor and storage space in my listening room.  Once the discs are ripped, I box them up and store them in the garage.  Easier access and more space, what's not to like?

Well, I found one thing that might qualify.  On some piano recordings, I've noticed that non-musical sound is now more audible.  (Sounds include chair and piano creaks, damper mechanism noise, and the like.)   The sounds are still largely there when listening to CD, they are just lower in level, though some sounds are absent.  At first, I thought there was an issue with the rips, so I re-ripped as WAV and FLAC, and re-listened on two different systems.  I also relied on my son's more youthful ears to verify if he heard anything.  The results were the same.  The differences have been most pronounced on Denon CDs, namely Michel Dalberto's Schubert, which I can live with, and Michel Beroff's Debussy, which is more of an issue.  The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is that the record companies consciously rely on CD player error correction to filter out certain sounds, just as they introduced noise as one form of copy control with the express intention of relying on error correction to filter it out.  Of course, I can always just rely on CDs in any cases where this becomes an issue.  And something else might be causing the issue.

I've also learned, over and over again, that not all CD pressings are the same.  Older Telarc pressings seem to be spot-on in every case when it comes to metadata and error correction, followed by Japanese market pressings (and the Japanese are, hands down, the most thorough when it comes to labeling each and every track meticulously), followed by French pressings, and then it varies.  The worst ripping experience I had was with Stewart Goodyear's Beethoven cycle.  I had to use EAC, and the rip speeds dropped well below 1x speed with continuous error correction.  I've not listened to the whole cycle in ripped form yet, but the couple sonatas I have listened to all sound fine.  And I've also ran into copy controlled discs, all of them from Teldec/Erato so far.  Fortunately, none of the titles are oft-listened to, and one (Lubimov's Mozart) may never be listened to again, so it's not a big issue yet. 

Modern technology is fun.

How long did it take you to upload your enormous music collection to the amazon drive?

Let me decode that. Have you found a way of uploading it all reasonably quickly? I mean I have nearly 3TB, less than you I think, and it's gonna take forever!


Someone's just told me that they uploaded 2TB in a couple of days with a fibre optic line. So maybe I was wrong to worry.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:49:06 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2017, 06:30:26 AM »
Amazon have a amazondrive desktop app which will allow you to synch to a folder on your C drive. It will NOT allow you to synch to a folder on an external hard drive (so no good for me)

I tried to upload via the web interface several times but it crashed for my big "downloads" folder. It worked for one or two small files.

I just started an upload of the whole folder via the windows 10 app and so far so good, will report back.

But even if it does work, I need to create backups. Someone has suggested that rclone may help

https://rclone.org/
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2017, 10:19:16 AM »

It's not going to work for me., 400 files in 6 hours, to upload the lot will take more than two months.
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Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 07:55:19 AM »
As I've continued my ripping, one thing has become clear: I have a lot more Paul Hindemith in my collection than I thought I did.  I've only ever bought one or two discs of Hindemith's music on its own, but a fair number of the small, medium, and large artist compilation boxes I've acquired have Hindemith included.  Turns out I've got more Ernst Toch than I thought, too.  I'm not sure I'll be spending a lot of time listening to either composer, though.
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Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 08:35:40 AM »
As I've continued ripping, I've run into more copy protected discs.  All of them have been from Teldec/Erato.  That's not to say all Teldec/Erato titles have been copy protected, because that is not the case.  It also does not apply to all Warner titles; former EMI and new Warner-specific titles seem unaffected.  The copy protection seems to come in two flavors: artificial noise (Harnoncourt's St Matthew) and drive offset manipulation (most titles, including all of Andras Schiff's).  I don't think Teldec/Erato went the Trojan software installation route that Sony briefly did.  At some point I may experiment with different drives to get around the problem, or perhaps even go for an old CD player/recorder combo that can be had for cheap.  In the meantime, I will have to take the CDs out of the sleeves and put them in the transport by hand.  How very inconvenient. 
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 08:53:12 AM »
I have no problems ripping CDs. Quite surprised to find that other people have problems, especially nowadays. :-\
“I think that a song, when it works, never mind a piece of long form music, even a song is something that speaks to itself but has a language all of its own, ideally.” - Steve Hackett

Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 08:56:08 AM »
I have no problems ripping CDs. Quite surprised to find that other people have problems, especially nowadays. :-\


It's not all CDs.  It's about 50 out of about 5000 so far, and all from one label.  Perhaps you have some specific knowledge on how to address copy protected CDs?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 08:58:44 AM by Todd »
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 09:00:35 AM »

It's not all CDs.  It's about 50 out of about 5000 so far, and all from one label.  Perhaps you have some specific knowledge on how to address copy protected CDs?

Every disc I rip, I rip through iTunes. I’ve had zero problems. I can rip any CD I want.
“I think that a song, when it works, never mind a piece of long form music, even a song is something that speaks to itself but has a language all of its own, ideally.” - Steve Hackett

Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 09:02:29 AM »
Every disc I rip, I rip through iTunes. I’ve had zero problems. I can rip any CD I want.


Have any of the discs you ripped had copy protection? 
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2017, 09:06:02 AM »

Have any of the discs you ripped had copy protection?

Absolutely and, again, no problems whatsoever with ripping any of them. I’m not sure why you’re even having problems with ripping copy-protected CDs, because when I go to rip through iTunes (I have an Apple Macbook Pro which is my main computer), there are no snags whatsoever.
“I think that a song, when it works, never mind a piece of long form music, even a song is something that speaks to itself but has a language all of its own, ideally.” - Steve Hackett

Offline Jo498

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2017, 09:07:54 AM »
I tried to avoid the copy protected CDs and I think I only have a handful. One that fortunately ran well enough on normal players (although I don't remember if I tried to rip it) is Handel sonatas with Christie/Kurosaki.

I didn't even know that Teldec/Warner had used copy protection. My copies of the more recent (ca. 2001) St Matthew with Harnoncourt have the "compact disc digital audio" logo not the copy protect, so they should be normal. Only the third disc is "enhanced" and supposedly has bonus material (not sure if I ever tried to run the bonus material).
Although some labels did not care and put both logos on a disc which is claiming the impossible, I believe. Because CDs with copy protection cannot fulfil the "red book" standard implied by the normal "compact disc digital audio" label.

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Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2017, 09:13:16 AM »
Absolutely and, again, no problems whatsoever with ripping any of them. I’m not sure why you’re even having problems with ripping copy-protected CDs, because when I go to rip through iTunes (I have an Apple Macbook Pro which is my main computer), there are no snags whatsoever.


I don't use Apple.  The issue is at the hardware and/or settings (including possibly registry) level as drive offset manipulation prevents discs from being read, and noise is specifically designed to be filtered out by standard disc playback error correction, which is not used by EAC, dBpoweramp, Media Player, or Foobar.  Drive offset manipulation can be dealt with manually, fortunately.  Since I will not use Apple for a variety of reasons, I will find a different solution or solutions.



Because CDs with copy protection cannot fulfil the "red book" standard implied by the normal "compact disc digital audio" label.


I've noticed that the offending discs I own do not have the standard compact disc logo.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 09:15:15 AM by Todd »
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2017, 09:21:17 AM »

I don't use Apple.  The issue is at the hardware and/or settings (including possibly registry) level as drive offset manipulation prevents discs from being read, and noise is specifically designed to be filtered out by standard disc playback error correction, which is not used by EAC, dBpoweramp, Media Player, or Foobar.  Drive offset manipulation can be dealt with manually, fortunately.  Since I will not use Apple for a variety of reasons, I will find a different solution or solutions.

Since I refuse to use Microsoft Windows (for a lot of reasons), I could never understand your problem. :)
“I think that a song, when it works, never mind a piece of long form music, even a song is something that speaks to itself but has a language all of its own, ideally.” - Steve Hackett

Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 09:22:47 AM »
Since I refuse to use Microsoft Windows (for a lot of reasons), I could never understand your problem. :)


The issue is not limited to Windows.
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Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2017, 09:30:15 AM »
On a different note, every once in a while I run into discs with data errors that require lengthy rips.  Case in point, disc six of Rudolf Kempe's Strauss box.  Most of the tracks had errors, but EAC heroically (as heroically as freeware can) ripped the tracks.  It took five hours to rip "The dinner" from Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, which turned out fine.  However, when I tried ripping Schlagobers and Josephslegende, the secure rip times were unacceptable (Schlagobers was estimated at over 11 hours), and since I never listen to these, I switched to burst mode to be done with it.  I decided to spin the disc in a CD player to hear if anything was amiss, and sure enough, crackling occurred throughout.  If I really want to listen to these pieces again, I will have to get different recordings or pressings.  I'm probably good.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Jo498

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2017, 11:23:38 AM »
Is this the Brilliant, the older EMI or the more recent Warner issue of the Kempe/Strauss?

You probably know the joke: If Richard rather Wagner, if Strauss rather Johann and for Schlagobers rather Demel.

http://www.demel.at/frames/index_wien_kaffeehaus.htm
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
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Offline Spineur

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2017, 11:42:30 AM »
On a different note, every once in a while I run into discs with data errors that require lengthy rips.  Case in point, disc six of Rudolf Kempe's Strauss box.  Most of the tracks had errors, but EAC heroically (as heroically as freeware can) ripped the tracks.  It took five hours to rip "The dinner" from Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, which turned out fine.
Yes, this happens especially with older cd's.  For some of them it is just defective pressing (all players have problem with them).  For others it is cd aging:  some of these older cds rip 20 times slower than the newer ones.  And 3-4 of them could just not be ripped at all.  Over my entire collection "problem cds" represent only a fraction of a %.

I did not experience any of the other difficulties you mentionned in your earlier posts.  I use EAC with the gd3 database.  EAC isnt your friendly software but I lived with it.
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Offline Todd

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2017, 11:58:14 AM »
Is this the Brilliant, the older EMI or the more recent Warner issue of the Kempe/Strauss?


EMI.


Yes, this happens especially with older cd's.  For some of them it is just defective pressing (all players have problem with them).  For others it is cd aging:  some of these older cds rip 20 times slower than the newer ones.  And 3-4 of them could just not be ripped at all.  Over my entire collection "problem cds" represent only a fraction of a %.


I'm inclined to think it is pressing related rather than aging.  My old Telarc cds and even older DG cds (the ones pressed in West Germany) have pretty much all ripped fine.  I haven't kept a tally of discs with rip issues, but I would guess it's in the 3-5% range, spread out over about 5000 discs so far.  (And probably around 80% of rip issues occur in the last 1-2 tracks.)  The ones I haven't been able to successfully rip, excluding copy protected discs, number less than twenty.  One bummer is Momo Kodama's Vingt Regards.  The last track will not rip, and dBpoweramp showed that 21,000+ frames would need to be re-ripped.  EAC showed 20+ hours to rip.  I'll just keep that disc in a CD rack ready for old-fashioned spinning.
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Offline Spineur

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Re: CD ripping
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »
Good luck with this time consuming work !  I started 18 months ago around christmas time where I had a long break and did most of the collection (1/4 yours!) in 4 weeks.  Now I rip cds as soon as they arrive, excepts for operas because I just have too many of them.  The big bummer is when the cds arent in the databases.  This means typing it all by hands.  Because of my eclectic tastes this happens quite regularly.

A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

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