Author Topic: CD ripping  (Read 3489 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mc ukrneal

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8060
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2017, 01:10:38 PM »
I have been on a ripping project of my own for some time. I've had no issues with EMI/Warner/Teldec/Erato/etc. But I have had a handful of Brilliant discs give my drive a problem to copy them (and some sound like they are skipping several time a second). On the other hand, they work fine in other players/drives. I've had this happen a handful of times over the years. I find that the disc drives in desktops will often take care of these problem discs. Maybe it's just the case of using another drive.

So far, I've had one track that refuses to play on any player or drive - last movement from Mahler/Symphony 5/Bertini. I do have an mp3 rip from some years ago, and it plays just fine, so something has happened to cause the last track to skip and then stop playing. I cannot see any faults on the disc, so I guess it just died. So either someone will neighborly provide a flac rip of the last track or I will need to figure out if there is disc I can get on the cheap to replace that track.

In any case, I find EAC too slow and abandoned it years ago (even for really bad ones, I'm not usually willing to spend hours to rip something). The rest have pluses and minuses, having used foobar, media monkey, windows media, and others. As long as the codec is a good one (LAME is a common rec), then I don't think it really matters which one you use.

I use musichi as a tagger (suggested from Jens) and ripper, and have liked that for a number of reasons. It gives me a lot of control over the tagging. Other parts I still haven't gotten to. I like that it has a lot of info from menus to pick, but the data is always the weak point in classical. I collect all the ones not there in order to send at some point.
Offenbach gets a raw deal in recordings considering his talent! For a discussion of this outstanding composer too little recorded: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5572.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2017, 09:15:36 PM »
On a different note, every once in a while I run into discs with data errors that require lengthy rips.  Case in point, disc six of Rudolf Kempe's Strauss box.  Most of the tracks had errors, but EAC heroically (as heroically as freeware can) ripped the tracks.  It took five hours to rip "The dinner" from Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, which turned out fine.  However, when I tried ripping Schlagobers and Josephslegende, the secure rip times were unacceptable (Schlagobers was estimated at over 11 hours), and since I never listen to these, I switched to burst mode to be done with it.  I decided to spin the disc in a CD player to hear if anything was amiss, and sure enough, crackling occurred throughout.  If I really want to listen to these pieces again, I will have to get different recordings or pressings.  I'm probably good.

If the CD is taking a long time to rip like that, this is where you need to use another drive, or another ripping programme, or both. I have a Sony USB external CD drive just for the purpose.

Oh I forgot, sometimes cleaning the CD helps, breath on it and then rub it on your trousers, that sort of thing.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 09:26:04 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2017, 09:17:52 PM »
As I've continued ripping, I've run into more copy protected discs.  All of them have been from Teldec/Erato.  That's not to say all Teldec/Erato titles have been copy protected, because that is not the case.  It also does not apply to all Warner titles; former EMI and new Warner-specific titles seem unaffected.  The copy protection seems to come in two flavors: artificial noise (Harnoncourt's St Matthew) and drive offset manipulation (most titles, including all of Andras Schiff's).  I don't think Teldec/Erato went the Trojan software installation route that Sony briefly did.  At some point I may experiment with different drives to get around the problem, or perhaps even go for an old CD player/recorder combo that can be had for cheap.  In the meantime, I will have to take the CDs out of the sleeves and put them in the transport by hand.  How very inconvenient.

You've been unlucky or I've been lucky, copy protection problems have only occurred for me once. I dumped the CD (I think it was something with Argerich - maybe a transcription for two pianos of some Brahms chamber music.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2017, 09:18:45 PM »
Has anyone had any experience with Dbpoweramp's Asset Media Server?

Has anyone found a way to link Naxos Media Library with Chromecast or another streamer?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2017, 12:06:08 AM »
Yes, this happens especially with older cd's.  For some of them it is just defective pressing (all players have problem with them).  For others it is cd aging:  some of these older cds rip 20 times slower than the newer ones.  And 3-4 of them could just not be ripped at all.  Over my entire collection "problem cds" represent only a fraction of a %.

I did not experience any of the other difficulties you mentionned in your earlier posts.  I use EAC with the gd3 database.  EAC isnt your friendly software but I lived with it.

Do you know the factors which effect the speed of a rip?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Spineur

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1926
  • Magdalena Kozena, Felicity Lott with love
  • Location: Grenoble
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mozart & friends
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2017, 02:08:33 AM »
Do you know the factors which effect the speed of a rip?
Obviously the reader first.  My previous cheap one could only do x5 on a good day.  My current ASUS exceeds x20.  Speed is adjusted upward/downward until error appear/disapear.  So when you slow down to x0.2 you know the cd isnt in a good shape anymore.
Beside pressing issues, and aging (the aluminum layer becoming granular degrading the optical reflectivity), one of the very common issue comes when they spin the top plastic layer which protect the aliminium layer.  Its thickness can be uneven at the edge.  The laser beam does not focus properly on the aluminium layer leading to errors.  This is why problems come often at the first few tracks.  You can actually see the problem by just looking at the cd.  Some people try to resurface the cd.  This is quite difficult to do even with professional equipment.
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3417
  • Location: Germany
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2017, 02:10:17 AM »
You've been unlucky or I've been lucky, copy protection problems have only occurred for me once. I dumped the CD (I think it was something with Argerich - maybe a transcription for two pianos of some Brahms chamber music.)
two piano version of the quintet (like the Haydn variations this is a legit alternative (maybe historically even older) version, not a later arrangement) + Mendelssohn trio. That's another one I have (and do not remember problems playing it, again, I didn't try to rip it). In this case I was not even aware that it was protected. Maybe I have more of them than I thought although I usually made an effort to avoid them around 2002-04 or so when they were somewhat comon.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline α | ì Æ ñ

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4796
  • Variations of Armature Pianist and Arm Chair Paris
  • Location: Land of electric sheep
  • Currently Listening to:
    You
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2017, 02:11:10 AM »
I've ripped 30 days of music onto my laptop (which was new) this year so far  ;D
Tell your Pugg to stop rubbing his balls of my carpet, I just sprayed some nasty chemicals there.

Online Scarpia

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2180
  • Location: U.S.
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2017, 11:29:20 AM »
Obviously the reader first.  My previous cheap one could only do x5 on a good day.  My current ASUS exceeds x20.  Speed is adjusted upward/downward until error appear/disapear.  So when you slow down to x0.2 you know the cd isnt in a good shape anymore.
Beside pressing issues, and aging (the aluminum layer becoming granular degrading the optical reflectivity), one of the very common issue comes when they spin the top plastic layer which protect the aliminium layer.  Its thickness can be uneven at the edge.  The laser beam does not focus properly on the aluminium layer leading to errors. This is why problems come often at the first few tracks.  You can actually see the problem by just looking at the cd.  Some people try to resurface the cd.  This is quite difficult to do even with professional equipment.

CDs are written from the center outward (opposite of an LP) so the edge of the disc is the last track. The physical explanation seems plausible, and matches my experience that the last track of a CD is most likely to have problems.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 12:15:18 PM by Scarpia »

Offline Spineur

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1926
  • Magdalena Kozena, Felicity Lott with love
  • Location: Grenoble
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mozart & friends
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2017, 01:00:33 PM »
CDs are written from the center outward (opposite of an LP) so the edge of the disc is the last track. The physical explanation seems plausible, and matches my experience that the last track of a CD is most likely to have problems.
Exact. Another (unrelated) remark:  my ASUS external drive which works really well is blu-ray capable.  But I am not sure it uses the blu-laser with its smaller spot size to read the CD.  Sometimes the head has two lasers a blue and a red one, so I do not know if this actually makes a difference.
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2017, 10:35:11 AM »
A few months ago I wanted to listen to one of my CDs, but I ran into a problem: I couldn’t find it.  My collection has grown so large and unruly that I have abandoned racks and rely on floor-bound stacks, out of any semblance of order.  While obviously a problem born of self-indulgence and affluenza, I decided it was time to fix the problem.  I decided to rip a major portion of my collection to allow for immediate access to whatever I may want to hear, and since Amazon offers unlimited online storage for $60/year, equal to Backblaze but with a helpful UI, I figured now was a good time to rip away and store off-site for personal disaster recovery purposes.  (When the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits, if it is at the high end of projections, my home stands a greater than 50% chance of being leveled, and if I survive the quake, I will want access to some form of entertainment at some point.)

I've used EAC to occasionally rip discs since the turn of the century, and it is reliable with superb error correction.  But it can be slow, and it is not really optimized for retrieving metadata.  This is especially true with Asian market releases, of which I have not a few.  Fortunately, Windows Media Player also rips nicely, and it's metadata retrieval and tagging is better, and it actually retrieves Japanese market metadata for almost every title I ripped.  I started off ripping my LvB sonata cycle collection, which took a while, before switching to artist-based big boxes, which is now mostly done, which means that I have started in on the rest of my collection proper.  Along the way, I had to swap out drives to a nice enough Asus 48x spinner.  But what really ended up being helpful was switching to dBpoweramp for ripping.  It's metadata system is much better than EAC or Media Player, and it's much better than going back and using foobar to tag after the fact.  I'm not a big fan of MediaMonkey's interface, finding dBpoweramp easier and quicker to use.  The cover image search and upload functions are simple and quick, whether at initial rip or after the fact, and the often times multiple metadata sets for tracks that are offered up for each disc make choosing the right one easy.  Of course, the “catch” is that the software is not free, but at $50-ish for two licenses, and about $5/year going forward, it's not spendy, either. 

Now it's my go-to, though on discs that have errors (ie, discs available in AccurateRip where ultra-secure ripping kicks in), I switch to EAC to rip affected tracks as it works faster in every case.  More than half the time when ultra-secure kicks in, the program ends up re-ripping by frame, and that just takes too long.

When I started ripping, I did some A/Bs between WAV and FLAC, and sure enough, they sound the same, so I went with FLAC for almost all ripping.  I also compared encoding levels, and ended up sticking with level 5 for a size/decoding sweet-spot.  I use Oppos as transports, and the 10x and forward players have gapless playback as a standard function, so now I just plug in an external hard drive loaded with music and go.  It's immense fun to be able to sift through titles and do A/Bs on a whim.  I'm closing in on three thousand ripped discs, and have about another three thousand or so to go before I'm done.  I do not plan on ripping my opera collection since I don't listen to a lot of opera these days, and if/when I return to listening to more of it, I won't be doing any A/B listening, or skipping around from one act in Opera X to another act in Opera Y.  I've also regained some floor and storage space in my listening room.  Once the discs are ripped, I box them up and store them in the garage.  Easier access and more space, what's not to like?

Well, I found one thing that might qualify.  On some piano recordings, I've noticed that non-musical sound is now more audible.  (Sounds include chair and piano creaks, damper mechanism noise, and the like.)   The sounds are still largely there when listening to CD, they are just lower in level, though some sounds are absent.  At first, I thought there was an issue with the rips, so I re-ripped as WAV and FLAC, and re-listened on two different systems.  I also relied on my son's more youthful ears to verify if he heard anything.  The results were the same.  The differences have been most pronounced on Denon CDs, namely Michel Dalberto's Schubert, which I can live with, and Michel Beroff's Debussy, which is more of an issue.  The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is that the record companies consciously rely on CD player error correction to filter out certain sounds, just as they introduced noise as one form of copy control with the express intention of relying on error correction to filter it out.  Of course, I can always just rely on CDs in any cases where this becomes an issue.  And something else might be causing the issue.

I've also learned, over and over again, that not all CD pressings are the same.  Older Telarc pressings seem to be spot-on in every case when it comes to metadata and error correction, followed by Japanese market pressings (and the Japanese are, hands down, the most thorough when it comes to labeling each and every track meticulously), followed by French pressings, and then it varies.  The worst ripping experience I had was with Stewart Goodyear's Beethoven cycle.  I had to use EAC, and the rip speeds dropped well below 1x speed with continuous error correction.  I've not listened to the whole cycle in ripped form yet, but the couple sonatas I have listened to all sound fine.  And I've also ran into copy controlled discs, all of them from Teldec/Erato so far.  Fortunately, none of the titles are oft-listened to, and one (Lubimov's Mozart) may never be listened to again, so it's not a big issue yet. 

Modern technology is fun.

When you do the backup, do you use some software to clone your ripped files on the cloud? (Without a cloning package it's going to be difficult to keep everything synced. I believe amazon no longer allows rclone, which did the job nicely, I wonder if there's anything else.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13585
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2017, 10:43:11 AM »
When you do the backup, do you use some software to clone your ripped files on the cloud? (Without a cloning package it's going to be difficult to keep everything synced. I believe amazon no longer allows rclone, which did the job nicely, I wonder if there's anything else.)


I just use Chrome to drag and drop folders.  Amazon also has its own upload utility.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

  • Full Member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 863
  • Back. Hello!
    • Surprised by Beauty
  • Currently Listening to:
    anything from Monteverdi to Widmann and well beyond in either direction and everything in the middle!
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2017, 10:56:51 AM »

I use musichi as a tagger (suggested from Jens) and ripper, and have liked that for a number of reasons. It gives me a lot of control over the tagging. Other parts I still haven't gotten to. I like that it has a lot of info from menus to pick, but the data is always the weak point in classical. I collect all the ones not there in order to send at some point.

That's gratifying to hear. Find it useful? Not too cumbersome? What do you think should be better about it, if anything? I still haven't gotten around to using it myself - mostly because I don't have time to rip my CD library - but I am interested in it all the same.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2017, 11:09:44 AM »

I just use Chrome to drag and drop folders.  Amazon also has its own upload utility.

The problem will come when you make changes to existing files, delete files, alter tags when you start to use them, change file names etc.  I think it's best to have a regular backup routine which finds these changes and updates the cloud accordingly, without overwriting everything you've stored obviously. Without it things will be manageable, but more difficult, and in large databases, over the years, there probably will be disparities between the cloud and your music at home.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13585
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2017, 11:16:53 AM »
The problem will come when you make changes to existing files, delete files, alter tags when you start to use them, change file names etc.  I think it's best to have a regular backup routine which finds these changes and updates the cloud accordingly, without overwriting everything you've stored obviously. Without it things will be manageable, but more difficult, and in large databases, over the years, there probably will be disparities between the cloud and your music at home.


I use Amazon for what amounts to cold storage.  My ripping is purely additive. In the event I do re-rip something, I just re-upload.  If I were concerned about active syncing, I'd use Carbonite.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2017, 11:24:16 AM »
Sure, but what will happen at some point is that you've wrongly tagged or named a file, or that you've uploaded something twice, that sort of thing. In a big data base like yous will be that sort of thing is bound to happen. You can deal with it without cloning if you're disciplined I suppose.



« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 11:28:42 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13585
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2017, 11:27:34 AM »
Sure, but what will happen at some point is that you've wrongly tagged or named a file, or that you've uploaded something twice, that sort of thing. In a big data base like yous will be that sort of thing is bound to happen.


Amazon is just for backup for me.  Dupes don't matter, and I rely on apps for metadata and fix as needed while ripping.  I reserve fastidious data management for work.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2017, 11:28:59 AM »
For my part, I would want a way to check that what's on the cloud is the same as what's on my hard drive at home -- without that I won't do cloud backups. You will have an enormous database, you will make changes.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 11:33:02 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2017, 11:31:33 AM »

Amazon is just for backup for me.  Dupes don't matter, and I rely on apps for metadata and fix as needed while ripping.  I reserve fastidious data management for work.

Yes, in a perfect world you'd be happy to use apps for metadata all the time.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8139
Re: CD ripping
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2017, 12:17:24 AM »
I just decided to trial Backblaze, which does appear to be a genuine backup scheme (rather than amazon's storage offering), and automatic too. I have no idea how long it will take to upload all the files,  if it takes weeks I don't see it really matters.

If Backblaze is as good as its own publicity says it is then it could be a godsend.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 12:53:12 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Buying Music From Amazon?
Please consider using these links. A small percentage of every sale using these links is passed on to GMG and helps keep this forum online.
Amazon US
Amazon Canada
Amazon UK