Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 11696 times)

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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #100 on: July 21, 2017, 11:59:23 PM »


Speaking of John Cleese...  8)

Fawlty Towers star John Cleese backs Brexit - and suggested HANGING Jean-Claude Juncker

Q

Agghh now you've made me look at the daily express!!!!

Wonder if he's still so keen? And was he trying to change the LibDem position on capital punishment? 😝
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2017, 12:24:50 AM »
Agghh now you've made me look at the daily express!!!!

Wonder if he's still so keen? And was he trying to change the LibDem position on capital punishment? 😝

So truly sorry for that.... ::) It was soo over the top that I couldn't resist..  ;)

But I can understand you now have the urge to rinse your eyes out with soap.... ???

British tabloids and their role in Brexit is a topic in itself....

Never seen so much stupidity and bigotry presented as "news" and "informed opinion".

And their position in this is fiercely nationalistic & anti-EU.

Q
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 12:38:16 AM by Que »
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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2017, 01:08:57 AM »

British tabloids....

Never seen so much stupidity and bigotry presented as "news" and "informed opinion".

Q

Hopefully, they have become their own echo chamber with regard to the public at large. The continued influence over the tories is another matter though.

The satirical magazine Private Eye brought together pre- and post-General Election comments from said tabloids. The 180 degree switch was breathtaking: before the election May had made a "brilliant decision" in calling the election; immediately after, the same papers were declaring what an "appalling mistake" she had made...

They deserve each other.
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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #103 on: July 27, 2017, 01:06:59 PM »
Update:

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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #104 on: July 30, 2017, 12:37:48 AM »


The UK seems to be steering no longer towards the iceberg, but around it for a "transitional period"

The question is: what kind?  ::)
Hammond seems to suggest it will be an "off the shelf" option, presumably bring a continued participation of the customs union and the internal market.
How this is to be achieved is another question. Theoretically (associated) membership of EFTA/EEA  is possible with a separate treaty for a customs union  (whivh is not included in the EEA-treaty betwen EFTA and the EU).

 But the devil is in the detail. As soon as Britain wants to diverge from preexisting "off the shelf" agreements, things wil get murky and things can still go horribly wrong.

My guess is Britain will try to hammer out special arrangements but will be caught up by time,  resulting in a last- minute ditch for the present status quo on economical cooperation.  Mind you - this will still leave plenty of problems to deal with: no Erasmus programme, no Euratom , etc.

Q
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Offline Spineur

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2017, 02:59:50 AM »
The transitional period is pure BS as it requires an approval from the 27 members states and this would take a long time.  On the other hand, requesting an extension to the 2 y negotiations period is easy: all you have to do is ask.  If some agrement on the exit settlment is reached, the likelyhood that this would be agreed upon is high.

Why go for the complicated when there is an easy path ?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 03:01:25 AM by Spineur »
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Offline Marc

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #106 on: July 30, 2017, 03:04:55 AM »
[...]
Speaking of John Cleese...  8)

Fawlty Towers star John Cleese backs Brexit - and suggested HANGING Jean-Claude Juncker

Q

Yeah, Cleese already was a solid pro-Brexit bloke during the referendum days, as was another so-called/so-thought lefty, Johnny Rotten, front singer of the Sex Pistols. Well, who knows, maybe, finally, Johnny will get his 'Anarchy in the UK'.
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #107 on: July 31, 2017, 09:50:06 AM »
No 10 contradicts Hammond over 'off-the-shelf' Brexit transition deal


Doesn't look good....at al..This way, the UK is going to end up empty handed.... ::)

NO deal is better than a bad ANY deal?  ???

Q
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Offline Spineur

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #108 on: July 31, 2017, 04:42:30 PM »
I agree with you Que.  It looks that the only way the worst can be avoided is removing Theresa May from office.  And if it happens, everything will look like a big waste.

Cameron+May: a real losing proposition
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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2017, 11:16:41 PM »
I agree with you Que.  It looks that the only way the worst can be avoided is removing Theresa May from office.  And if it happens, everything will look like a big waste.


Get ready for the big waste; the tories have seen how toxic May is for their electoral chances. She's kept in the job till they pull the trigger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40630242

(Scroll down to see what happened to her likeability in the short time she was (minimally) exposed to the electorate).




« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 11:20:31 PM by nodogen »
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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2017, 02:56:19 PM »
Interesting article by the professor of government at King's College, London.
Dare one hope?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/03/second-brexit-referendum-case-getting-stronger-political-deadlock-life-raft
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Offline Mr. Minnow

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2017, 04:36:23 PM »
Interesting article by the professor of government at King's College, London.
Dare one hope?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/03/second-brexit-referendum-case-getting-stronger-political-deadlock-life-raft

The only way I can see the final Brexit deal (assuming there is one) going through without another referendum is if it's as good a deal as the Brexiteers are claiming it will be. The chances of that would appear to be somewhere between zero and bugger all and I can't see a bad deal being allowed to simply go through without the public getting a vote on it. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a referendum, it might be a general election, but either way the pressure for a public vote will surely become overwhelming.

The Brexiteers' commitment to "letting the people have their say" was, it would seem, a one-shot deal. Hopefully that stance will prove to be unsustainable. If Brexit is going to be the roaring success that they say it is, they would surely have no problem winning another vote. Given the monumental significance of the deal, whatever form it takes, it would be an act of staggering arrogance to try to force it on the country without a vote, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they try to do just that.

Offline Christo

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2017, 11:08:24 PM »
The main question is not what the British voters will hold of it, but whether the other 27 member states will accept anything else but Brexit. My guess is that they won't.
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #113 on: August 03, 2017, 11:40:18 PM »
Theresa May should never have signed Article 50 when she did. It was all about asserting her 'authority' and now she has none.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2017, 11:59:48 PM »
The main question is not what the British voters will hold of it, but whether the other 27 member states will accept anything else but Brexit. My guess is that they won't.

I'm afraid so too..... ::)

Unless the UK changes its mind, in which case an extended exit period could be used to negotiate the terms of the UK's renewed membership, prospects look very gloomy....

Not because the EU doesn't want to make a deal, but because the UK's government has no exit strategy other than unrealistic expectations about ending its cooperation in its most successful political and economic alliance ever, but still reap its full benefits.

May's famous "red lines" make any other option than a hard Brexit impossible, no matter how much good will there is from the other side...

Q
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Offline Spineur

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #115 on: August 13, 2017, 02:51:00 AM »
If I would be a European negotiator on the Brexit team, my patience would be running low

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-idUKKBN1AS0XP

This speech of Esteban Gonzales Pons, European deputy, reflects my feeling at the moment

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dhiMNCyXcFg" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dhiMNCyXcFg</a>
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2017, 03:55:47 AM »
Hear, hear..... :)

Great speech BTW...

Europa and its democratic values are under siege from outside and inside forces....

While the British reenact Dunkirk..... ::) But it's not going to save them this time around....

Q
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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #117 on: August 13, 2017, 08:31:15 AM »

While the British reenact Dunkirk..... ::) But it's not going to save them this time around....

Q

Yes, it is very sad. For me, the only good thing about this stupidity is the whole house of cards has been built by the tories so hopefully it is them that will be buried when it collapses.

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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2017, 10:10:50 PM »
Great relief was caused by the announcement that hard & soft liners within the UK government agreed on a common Brexit strategy!!  :)

But on a closer look, it doesn't look like much....

One thing seems clear: the soft liners lead by Chancellor Hammond are loosing the battle.... ::)
After Hammond's idea of a continued participation of some sorts of the internal market (EEA) during a lengthy transition period was shot down, now there is "agreement" on the immediate discontinuation of the customs union. And the transition prriod will be short, like 2-3 years.

So, what will actually be the state of things during this transition period?

“That is why we believe a time-limited interim period will be important to further our national interest and give business greater certainty – but it cannot be indefinite; it cannot be a back door to staying in the EU.”

“We are also clear that during this period our borders must continue to operate smoothly; goods bought on the internet must still cross borders; businesses must still be able to supply their customers across the EU and our innovative, world-leading companies must be able to hire the talent they need, including from within the EU.”


I have no idea what this means... "smoothly operating borders" without maintaining temporarily the status quo on the movement of goods & services?  ???

Seems like another of these cakes....the ones you can have & eat....


Meanwhile Hammond is under fire of giving in too much to the hard liners...

I think he basically lost the battle for a soft transitional Brexit.
This might lead to consequences within the ranks of the Tories: pro Europeans might decide to leave the boat...

Q
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 10:21:50 PM by Que »
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Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #119 on: August 13, 2017, 10:53:03 PM »
Q,
It's a cold day in hell when a tory jumps ship 😉
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