Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 94734 times)

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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1040 on: June 14, 2019, 11:58:05 PM »
A sharp observation on the national cult of humiliation and indignation surrounding Brexit:


"National humiliation, it seems, depends on which nation or group of nations is inflicting the offence. Mere equality with France and Germany and Spain is intolerably demeaning. Subservience to a loutish US president is not [...]

Britain is humiliated by the EU because it expects to be superior. It is not humiliated by Trump because, for all the illusion of a special relationship, it accepts that it is a junior partner."



Brexit Britain is wallowing in dangerous talk of national humiliation

Q

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1041 on: June 19, 2019, 11:04:50 PM »
I totally agree with the Dutch PM's view on the likely consequence of Brexit.
Like Turkeys voting for Christmas IMO.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1141613477154496513?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1042 on: June 25, 2019, 09:16:13 PM »
People who - once upon a time - had their hopes vested in Jeremy Corbyn, must be terribly dissapointed by now.....

Jeremy Corbyn delays decision on throwing weight behind remain

I'm sticking to my old theory that he will be happy to pick up the pieces after the Tories have conveniently executed Brexit and take the blame for its failure

The danger of his little scheme is however that it might not be just the Tory government that falls to pieces, but the British political system and constitutional order as a whole. But I guess Socialist Utopias are built on the ruins of the old?  ???

Q

Offline Irons

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1043 on: June 25, 2019, 11:08:05 PM »
I totally agree with the Dutch PM's view on the likely consequence of Brexit.
Like Turkeys voting for Christmas IMO.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1141613477154496513?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

But should he have said that? I do rather agree with the reply from R Mel whoever he or she is. I voted remain but if a second referendum was called I'm not sure I would a second time.
The familiar rat-a-tat of enemy machine-guns joined the melee. It was like an orchestra from hell, it’s tune being played out by the instruments of death. - The Sun Will Always Shine, John R McKay.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1044 on: June 26, 2019, 09:28:37 AM »
But should he have said that? I do rather agree with the reply from R Mel whoever he or she is. I voted remain but if a second referendum was called I'm not sure I would a second time.

Because..... "foreign powers are interfering in British politics"::)

If the British ever had any close political friends on "the continent", it is the Dutch...

If there is any foreign power currently interfering in British politics, it is the US...

That said, I don’t think the current state of UK politics has anything to do with outside interference.

Q
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 09:30:40 AM by Que »

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1045 on: July 18, 2019, 08:49:01 PM »
The latest development is that the UK parliament, led by the House of Lords, has made provisions to prevent any "prorogation" or suspension of parliament by the government in order to leave the EU without any agreement (hard/ "no-deal Brexit).

This means that Boris Johnson will get stuck in the same impasse as May: no majority to reverse the referendum result or a 2nd referendum, no majority for the negotiated exit agreement with the EU, but no majority to leave without a deal either....

MPs pass amendment seeking to thwart no-deal Brexit prorogation

However, Johnson might not need prorogation of parliament: the passing of the deadline will in itself achieve a hard Brexit.... unless yet another extension is requested and granted....

Q
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 10:05:49 AM by Que »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1046 on: July 19, 2019, 02:55:35 AM »
The latest development is that the UK parliament, led by the House of Lords, has made provisions to prevent any "prorogation" or suspension of parliament by the government in order to leave the EU without any agreement (hard/ "no-deal Brexit).

This means that Boris Johnson will get stuck in the same impasse as May: no majority to reverse the referendum result or a 2nd referendum, no majority for the negotiated exit agreement with the EU, but no majority to leave without a deal either....

MPs pass amendment seeking to thwart no-deal Brexit prorogation

However, Johnson might not need prorogation of parliament: the pass of the deadline will in itself achieve a hard Brexit.... unless yet another extension is requested and granted....

Q
Yes but I think it's good that the the prorogation of Parliament has been made much more difficult. The goal-centred obsession with achieving Brexit regardless of the increasingly obvious negative consequences is deeply dispiriting. Like turkeys voting for Christmas in my opinion.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Iota

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1047 on: July 19, 2019, 10:23:38 AM »
It seems such a curious thing, that there exists a process (prorogation) whereby the government can just shut down parliament if it doesn't like the answers it's getting, even if it was not intended for that purpose (I'd have thought Maggie would have whipped it out every 5 mins!...).

However, Johnson might not need prorogation of parliament: the passing of the deadline will in itself achieve a hard Brexit.... unless yet another extension is requested and granted....

.... really, we seem to be living in a kind of evil forest where everything seems weighted in favour of the wicked wizard!  :(  Speaking of whom, surely if one really wanted to save £350 million a week, wouldn't the best way be to tape the odiously insincere Boris Johnson to the side of a bus, to prevent him from governing ..

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1048 on: July 19, 2019, 11:23:53 AM »
Who is going to ask the EU for yet another delay on behalf of the UK, if the new prime minister refuses to do so or will purposely spoil it?

Some Conservatives have figured out that the only other possible candidate would be...... HM the Queen....  ::)

Brexit: Scheme to block no deal 'could involve Queen'

It seems that this whole episode will have "constitutional crisis" written  all over it...

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Offline JBS

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1049 on: July 19, 2019, 12:16:07 PM »
Who is going to ask the EU for yet another delay on behalf of the UK, if the new prime minister refuses to do so or will purposely spoil it?

Some Conservatives have figured out that the only other possible candidate would be...... HM the Queen....  ::)

Brexit: Scheme to block no deal 'could involve Queen'

It seems that this whole episode will have "constitutional crisis" written  all over it...

Q

Theoretically that would destroy the monarchy, since the basic constitutional rule now is that the monarch does nothing independent of the ministers. OTOH the crowd most likely to complain in such a case are hardline Tories whose whole universe is based on the idea of monarchy.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1050 on: July 20, 2019, 12:07:27 AM »
Theoretically that would destroy the monarchy, since the basic constitutional rule now is that the monarch does nothing independent of the ministers.

Agreed!  :)

Her Majesty would be used by these moderate Conservatives as an alternative for dismissing the government, which they seem to want to avoid at all costs. For obvious reasons....Though by now any fears of a subsequent neo-Stalinist govt under Jeremy Corbyn seem extremely farfetched....

But I would advise HM not to go along with any prorogation of Parliament either. Such an step would be undemocratic and is likely to be unconstitutional. Conveniently, both anti-Brexit activist Gina Millet and some Conservative MPs have announced to fight such an action before the Supreme Court. This would be a perfect excuse for the monarch to keep any request for prorogation "under advisement".  8)

Q

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1051 on: July 21, 2019, 09:40:57 PM »
I must say, that is a splendid picture of The Queen

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1052 on: July 21, 2019, 10:57:40 PM »
I must say, that is a splendid picture of The Queen


Yes it is. I also like this recent one. When offered help in planting the tree the Queen refused saying 'I'm still perfectly capable of planting a tree!' I'll leave any others for my 'Nice photos of Her Majesty' thread.  8)


« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 11:00:02 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline North Star

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1053 on: July 21, 2019, 11:55:16 PM »
I must say, that is a splendid picture of The Queen


Love the colour scheme.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1054 on: July 22, 2019, 12:54:35 AM »
Love the colour scheme.
Clearly she likes complimentary colours as in the red (0k pink)/green of the other photo.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline North Star

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1055 on: July 22, 2019, 02:21:13 AM »
Clearly she likes complimentary colours as in the red (0k pink)/green of the other photo.
Yeah, and also maybe what the colours might suggest.

 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 02:23:52 AM by North Star »
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1056 on: July 22, 2019, 03:24:17 AM »
Yeah, and also maybe what the colours might suggest.

 
Excellent! Well spotted.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline André

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1057 on: July 22, 2019, 07:37:48 AM »
The Queen’s milliner (and I imagine the Daily Mail’s photographers) must dreaming of something like this to happen (watch the birdie on the left):


Online mc ukrneal

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1058 on: July 23, 2019, 02:16:24 AM »
Next up, Boris!
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1059 on: July 23, 2019, 02:59:27 AM »
We’ve got our very own President Trump! Soon everyone will have one.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen