Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 35282 times)

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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #440 on: March 05, 2018, 10:22:42 PM »
Another example of a "soft border" I have seen mentioned, is the border between Norway (non-EU) and Sweden (EU).

But then again, EFTA-member Norway is part of the European internal market and local conditions in terms of volume of trading movements might be different...

Q
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Offline Mr. Minnow

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #441 on: March 06, 2018, 05:06:55 AM »
Another example of a "soft border" I have seen mentioned, is the border between Norway (non-EU) and Sweden (EU).

But then again, EFTA-member Norway is part of the European internal market and local conditions in terms of volume of trading movements might be different...

Q

I've seen that mentioned as well, but if I remember rightly the article I read about it said that there are still some checks at that border. Even then, as you say, Norway is part of the single market (though not, I believe, the customs union).

Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #442 on: March 06, 2018, 07:18:06 AM »
Here's another one of those annoying intellectual boffin types trying to stop The Will of The People:

"Brain prize winner calls Brexit a 'disaster' for the NHS and science"

- https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/06/brain-prize-winner-calls-brexit-a-disaster-for-the-nhs-and-science       

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #443 on: March 06, 2018, 11:14:36 PM »
A must-read on sentiments on Brexit and the UK in the rest of the EU, and what drives their strategy: a lack of trust and self preservation.

Britain is still clueless about the EU’s motives in Brexit negotiations

Q
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 11:16:17 PM by Que »
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Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #444 on: March 06, 2018, 11:55:02 PM »
I've seen that mentioned as well, but if I remember rightly the article I read about it said that there are still some checks at that border. Even then, as you say, Norway is part of the single market (though not, I believe, the customs union).
We're within Schengen. And not the customs union (which mean I can receive small CD packages VAT free from the EU).

If the UK want to remain within Schengen they must accept free flow of labor. If not, there will be full border controls (like when I entered Hungary from Roumania this summer). Something to look forward to for alle Brits. ;)

Offline Christo

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #445 on: March 07, 2018, 12:28:09 AM »
(which mean I can receive small CD packages VAT free from the EU).
HAH! Finally a comprehensible motive for Brexit!  :D
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Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #446 on: March 07, 2018, 12:37:09 AM »
HAH! Finally a comprehensible motive for Brexit!  :D
Yes, but only as long as they are so small that they cannot be bothered to handle them (about GB 30). Above that, they are slammed with full Norwegian VAT + fees for the processing.

In fact I wouldn't mind paying VAT, it's the fees that are killer......

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #447 on: March 10, 2018, 12:39:37 AM »
À chacun son goût.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #448 on: March 10, 2018, 12:49:14 AM »
Regional shares of local GDP exposed to Brexit:



Research by the Dutch Erasmus University Rotterdam: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pirs.12334/full

Q

PS It seems that the Irish have every right to be extremely angry with their neighbours.....  ::)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 12:50:57 AM by Que »
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Offline Mr. Minnow

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #449 on: March 10, 2018, 06:19:48 PM »
Regional shares of local GDP exposed to Brexit:



Research by the Dutch Erasmus University Rotterdam: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pirs.12334/full

Q

PS It seems that the Irish have every right to be extremely angry with their neighbours.....  ::)

The fact that the Brexiters appear to have given no thought prior to (and precious little since) the referendum to finding a workable solution to the Irish border problem is enough on its own to justify Irish anger with the UK. It smacks of complacency, arrogance and ignorance in equal measure. Dismissing the issue by claiming that it can all be sorted out with technological solutions that don't appear to even exist isn't going to cut it. And if they want their precious hard Brexit to happen they'll have to find a workable solution, because without one that satisfies both Ireland and the EU a hard Brexit won't be happening.

It's particularly disgusting to hear them accuse the EU of using the Irish border as an excuse for thwarting Brexit. A more accurate statement would be that they're embarrassed that Ireland and the EU asking for a solution (to a problem created by the UK) is drawing attention to their contemptuous lack of thought about an immensely serious issue.

Also somewhat ironic is hearing hardline Brexiters state that the Irish border issue should not be allowed to thwart the will of the people as expressed in a referendum. That does rather overlook the fact that the Good Friday Agreement was implemented after joint referendums held in Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic which both resulted in massive majorities in favour of the agreement - about 71% in favour in the north and 94% in the south if I remember rightly (not much doubt about "the will of the people" there, unlike the near 50-50 split of the Brexit referendum). But a hard Brexit means a hard border, and a hard border would be a clear violation of the GFA - and thus a clear violation of the will of the people of the island of Ireland on both sides of the border. So those Brexiteers saying that we should have a hard Brexit to honour the referendum even if that means a hard border need to answer the question: why should the Brexit vote be allowed to trample all over the results of not just one, but two referendums? I'm not holding my breath for them to find an answer to that one. 

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #450 on: March 10, 2018, 08:31:15 PM »
I think the Brexiteers are guided by a simple assumption of very doubtful validity: that the EU and Ireland need the UK more than the UK needs them.

Tangential question: who exactly is qualified to vote in the UK (citizenship, I assume, but what else?), and what is involved in the process of registering and then casting a vote (for instance, what sort of ID)?


Offline NikF

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #452 on: March 11, 2018, 03:55:08 AM »
I think the Brexiteers are guided by a simple assumption of very doubtful validity: that the EU and Ireland need the UK more than the UK needs them.

Tangential question: who exactly is qualified to vote in the UK (citizenship, I assume, but what else?), and what is involved in the process of registering and then casting a vote (for instance, what sort of ID)?

You need to be registered on the Electoral Roll (Register) and usually this happens by filling in a form delivered to every household or by registering online.

In Northern Ireland, England and Wales you can register aged 17 but only vote when 18.

In Scotland you can register when you are 14 and can vote in Scottish parliament elections and local elections when you're 16. At 18 you can currently vote in UK and European parliament elections.

Before the day of the vote you receive a card through the post. It contains the address of your voting station. You go there and either hand over the card to the staff or simply give them your name and address. Note that you aren't required to bring the card or any ID, but this is due to change in 2019 or 2020.

That's all I know.
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #453 on: March 11, 2018, 05:34:48 AM »
Brexit: why Britain’s hopes for a special financial services deal are set to be dashed


Hammond is trying to pick the biggest cherry of them all for the "Jewel in the Crown" of the UK economy: the financial services sector.

Unless the UK by some miraculous political turn of events stays part of the internal market, this plan is not going to fly....

To save what it can of the position of the City, the only option for the UK would be the "Singapore model".
Which, as pointed out in the article would set the UK on a collision course with the EU and would likely sever all economic ties.

Q
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kishnevi

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #454 on: March 11, 2018, 07:11:43 AM »
You need to be registered on the Electoral Roll (Register) and usually this happens by filling in a form delivered to every household or by registering online.

In Northern Ireland, England and Wales you can register aged 17 but only vote when 18.

In Scotland you can register when you are 14 and can vote in Scottish parliament elections and local elections when you're 16. At 18 you can currently vote in UK and European parliament elections.

Before the day of the vote you receive a card through the post. It contains the address of your voting station. You go there and either hand over the card to the staff or simply give them your name and address. Note that you aren't required to bring the card or any ID, but this is due to change in 2019 or 2020.

That's all I know.
Thanks.  Your system would give an American conservative a case of the tantrums.

Offline NikF

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #455 on: March 11, 2018, 07:27:36 AM »
Thanks.  Your system would give an American conservative a case of the tantrums.

You're welcome. And yeah, the whole process seems free and easy and kind of quaint.
"You overestimate my power of attraction," he told her. "No, I don't," she replied sharply, "and neither do you".

Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #456 on: March 11, 2018, 07:41:32 AM »
Thanks.  Your system would give an American conservative a case of the tantrums.
More or less similar to Norway, except that you are automatically registered when you are on the national scrolls (as all are required to be), and that you need to bring some ID. Bring your voters card which is sent to your registered adress some weeks in advance, and bring some ID. Though you can still vote without your card, but then the vote is handled somewhat differently when counted.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 07:44:29 AM by The new erato »

Online North Star

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #457 on: March 11, 2018, 09:52:42 AM »
More or less similar to Norway, except that you are automatically registered when you are on the national scrolls (as all are required to be), and that you need to bring some ID. Bring your voters card which is sent to your registered adress some weeks in advance, and bring some ID. Though you can still vote without your card, but then the vote is handled somewhat differently when counted.
Sounds about the same as here. And the government will pay for your ID if you can't afford it.
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Offline Mr. Minnow

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #459 on: March 19, 2018, 05:41:15 PM »
Our strong and stable prime minister has secured another Brexit victory with the transition deal, cunningly outfoxing the EU by giving them pretty much everything they were asking for. Johnny Foreigner never saw that coming! Well actually they probably did.

So, having agreed a back stop solution to the Irish border issue in December, then saying we didn't agree to it after all, we're now fully committed to it. Again. At least for now, unless Arlene says otherwise. Which she might. Though we still don't like the wording because:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/19/uk-and-eu-agree-terms-for-brexit-transition-deal

Quote
Downing Street wants inclusion in the text of its promise to avoid the need for border checks between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, something Brussels says is a strictly domestic issue.

Bloody EU, not interfering in our affairs....


It seems increasingly clear that where Brexit is concerned, all roads lead to the Irish border. The UK government has suggested two "solutions" which would allow the hard Brexiteers to get their way without trashing the Good Friday Agreement: the first is if some magical technological solution for an open border is found, of which there is precious little sign so far. It would appear that no such border currently exists anywhere in the world, so if such a solution is to be found, it will have to be something which doesn't yet exist. Even then, it will have to be sufficiently convincing to satisfy both the EU and the Irish government that it's worth allowing the Irish border to be used as a guinea pig to see if it works.

The other option for keeping an open border is, according to the UK government, getting a trade deal with the EU which is so good that it avoids the need for border checks. How this is to be achieved while sticking to the government's red lines of leaving the single market and customs union has yet to be explained in detail. Or indeed explained at all.

If we don't get a magical new technological solution or the aforementioned have-our-cake-and-eat-it trade deal, it will presumably come down to a choice between two options:

1. The back stop option for the Irish border kicks in, in which case the whole UK stays in/remains extremely closely aligned with the customs union and single market to keep the border open - i.e. the softest possible Brexit (allowing just Northern Ireland to stay in the CU/SM is of course not an option because of Arlene & co.). Hardcore Leave voters, the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and the Tory press explode with rage. Such a deal would almost certainly not get through the Commons.

2. May caves in to the ultras and we get a hard border, a hard Brexit and the smoking ruins of the GFA. Hardcore Leave voters, the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and the Tory press are ecstatic, while everyone else explodes with rage. As with option 1, it's virtually inconceivable that such a deal would get through the Commons.

As much as I want this repulsive shower of bastards out of office, if it does come down to one of these two options it's probably better if they're the ones who have to tell the public what those options are. Let them own this fiasco.