Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 2003 times)

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Offline Richard Pinnell

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2017, 09:52:05 AM »
Anyway,  I don’t think the EU 27 are going to make the same mistake twice, which means the UK is out for now

I'm no expert, but I don't see it that way. Certainly the European Union is stronger with the UK included, just as the UK also needs Europe to prosper. It's clear that the UK needs Europe to prosper more than the other way around, but there are mutual benefits, and believe me, however virtuous DeGaulle may have been, the various leaders out there right now are far more swayed by economic benefits than he once was!
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Offline Marc

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2017, 09:59:01 AM »
One of the guiding principles of Washington and the other American Founders was to keep out of European power politics as much as possible (not easy, and not always obtainable, since the European powers saw no reason to keep America out of their power politics).  And of course, Washington, as general of the Revolution, made sure that we here in the US were not, as dependents of Britain, sucked unwillingly into  European quarrels.   We were sucked into European quarrels, willingly and sometimes not, but at least it was on our own account, not that of Britain.

Thanks.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2017, 10:03:19 AM »
The problem is that almost everyone in continental Europe was already pissed with the perennial cherry-picking and special status the UK always demanded within the EU, so we can hardly be blamed that some have the notion of "good riddance" and don't really feel like extending another special status offering etc. after the UK gave the EU the finger with Brexit.
And the UK is not that special anymore. If the North Sea Oil dries up they are really going to be in a fix because in the long term rent extraction and globalized fraud by city banksters cannot keep an economy going.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
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Offline Mr. Minnow

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2017, 10:07:04 AM »
This is a bit masochistic of me, given I'd really want a Labour government, but as the clock is ticking on Brexit, this might be a good time NOT to be in government, given that Brexit will turn to an omnishit.

Best case scenario I can see is the Tories limp on for a bit in chaotic fashion propped up by the DUP while a Tory party civil war erupts over Brexit. Their remainers like Soubry and Davidson are already saying that the election result shows the public has rejected a hard Brexit, while the Brexiteers are demanding that we carry on full steam ahead towards the iceberg. They're in real trouble unless there's some kind of compromise position that would satisfy both sides, but it's hard to see what that could be. If the Labour "moderates" acknowledge they were wrong about Corbyn being a guarantee of electoral annihilation and start to support him, in a few months time we could have a united Labour party up against a Tory party tearing itself apart. If this also means the Tories are completely incapable of conducting the Brexit negotiations effectively they'll look like a lame duck government led by a lame duck PM. We can but hope!   

Offline Spineur

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2017, 10:08:02 AM »
I'm no expert, but I don't see it that way. Certainly the European Union is stronger with the UK included, just as the UK also needs Europe to prosper. It's clear that the UK needs Europe to prosper more than the other way around, but there are mutual benefits, and believe me, however virtuous DeGaulle may have been, the various leaders out there right now are far more swayed by economic benefits than he once was!
I am no expert either.  But England has a functionning army and navy.  With the US being somewhat unreliable for the next 3 years, cooperation with the UK has to be preserved on that front.  The economic issues are and will be a mess because the web of legal transcription of EU commercial directives are going to be so hard to rework.
In any event I think its going to require a great deal of compromising from all side to clean up the mess.
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline Todd

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2017, 10:55:17 AM »
As if 'Europeans' exist.


That's sort of the problem, you see.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2017, 10:55:36 AM »
I've just read that at the 1922 committee meeting May was "contrite." I can only conclude that was a typo. Still, she can stay in No.10 till they decide to release the trap door. 😈
Democracy is not a spectator sport

Offline Richard Pinnell

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2017, 11:02:54 AM »
England has a functionning army and navy

Sorry to be pedantic, but it's pertinent here to point out that the army and navy belong to the UK, not just England. It's ignorant English nationalism that has got us into this mess in the first place so better not to fuel it any further!! 😉
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Offline Richard Pinnell

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2017, 11:04:36 AM »
Anyway I'm writing this moments before a (cough) chamber orchestra performance of Mahler's 9th. It's a good job the music of the past is immune from any Brexit. 😉
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Offline Spineur

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2017, 11:49:33 AM »
France Macron says the door is always open for the UK to stay in the EU

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKKBN1942KO

W. Schauble just said the same thing this afternoon.

Let see who picks those statements up among the UK politicians
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2017, 12:14:13 AM »
France Macron says the door is always open for the UK to stay in the EU

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKKBN1942KO

W. Schauble just said the same thing this afternoon.

Let see who picks those statements up among the UK politicians

A generous act of your new benevolent ruler!  :)

But I think it's a mistake.... now is not the time...

Unless the UK miraculously turns into one of the driving forces behind a reformed, stronger more integrated and unified European Union.

Which it won't. The Brits have been party poopers right from the moment they became a member and only interested in free trade...

(Newsflash: the EU is, and was founded to be, more than just a free trade zone...)

The UK blackmailed the EU for rebates and opt outs, pressed a US geopolitical agenda and blocked any meaningful integration as much as it could.

I think a time out is in order. And it is time for the EU to move forward...

As far as I'm concerned the UK can get any reasonable deal safe for a return to membership. Why not remain part of the internal market?

Legally I think all of the EU 27 have to agree to reverse the British exit since the UK has already exercised its unilateral right to leave.

The exit is already a legal fact, though there is a delay for it to take effect. Reentry means renegotiation.

Q
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 03:46:52 PM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2017, 02:27:04 AM »
Let them stew and face a brave new world in alliance with Trump which doesn't even dare to visit the UK. Perhaps some sense will prevail in the long run.

Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2017, 09:07:27 AM »
Let them stew and face a brave new world in alliance with Trump which doesn't even dare to visit the UK. Perhaps some sense will prevail in the long run.

I hope so too. May must get no chance to offload blame to others; she has been the strong and stable robot. While the countdown to her demise continues unfortunately I have to live in this stew! 😡
Democracy is not a spectator sport

Offline Richard Pinnell

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2017, 12:28:47 PM »
I hope so too. May must get no chance to offload blame to others; she has been the strong and stable robot. While the countdown to her demise continues unfortunately I have to live in this stew! 😡

Yes. I feel the same. About time to finally get that revolution rolling? 😉
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2017, 12:49:02 PM »
Yes. I feel the same. About time to finally get that revolution rolling? 😉

In all seriousness, I do wonder what the near future holds for the UK. So many issues coming to a head, and a very divided country. I think May and the tories are on the ropes yet the country is supposed to accept a Tory govt propped up by 10 nutjobs with a paramilitary background? Uh, hello???
Democracy is not a spectator sport

Offline Mr. Minnow

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2017, 03:24:40 PM »
I think May and the tories are on the ropes yet the country is supposed to accept a Tory govt propped up by 10 nutjobs with a paramilitary background? Uh, hello???

I'm still waiting for the Daily Mail and the Sun to go into fits of splenetic fury at the very idea of a paramilitary-backed party having such influence over the government of the UK. You know, the same kind of frothing outrage we saw so much of when they were trying to smear Corbyn as the terrorists' friend.

Offline Scion7

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2017, 12:32:32 AM »
Exit the EU, and militarily rebuild the British Empire.
The Netherlands are just SITTING there, helpless - let's get the Ark Royal in ship-shape and move in as a first step.
If I could create an ideal world, it would be an England with the fire of the Elizabethans, the correct taste of the Georgians, and the refinement and pure ideals of the Victorians. - H.P. Lovecraft

Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #77 on: June 18, 2017, 06:09:53 AM »
Exit the EU, and militarily rebuild the British Empire.
The Netherlands are just SITTING there, helpless - let's get the Ark Royal in ship-shape and move in as a first step.

I think that may be Plan B.
Democracy is not a spectator sport

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2017, 02:56:45 PM »
À chacun son goût.

Offline nodogen

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #79 on: Today at 01:14:34 AM »


Steve Bell is thankfully merciless.

I see today the cracks are already starting to show amongst the tories.
Democracy is not a spectator sport

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