Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 26632 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nodogen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #80 on: July 04, 2017, 12:44:55 PM »

Spineur

  • Guest
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2017, 10:48:44 AM »
Come on Theresa get your act together, time is running out

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-banks-idUKKBN1A218M

Offline nodogen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2017, 12:20:05 PM »
Come on Theresa get your act together, time is running out

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-banks-idUKKBN1A218M

Her act is together. This is as good as she gets.

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15172
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2017, 08:35:05 PM »
À chacun son goût.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 10781
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2017, 10:11:48 PM »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15172
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2017, 08:21:04 AM »
My daughter sent me this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/17/brexit-stopped-second-referendum

I agree, there is simply insufficient popular support for a reversal of Brexit.

Perhaps there will be at the last minute, but by that time it will be too late....

Best case scenario would be the UK staying in the internal market and customs union as a transitional arrangement.

Q
À chacun son goût.

Spineur

  • Guest
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2017, 08:36:26 AM »
I agree, there is simply insufficient popular support for a reversal of Brexit.

Perhaps there will be at the last minute, but by that time it will be too late....

Best case scenario would be the UK staying in the internal market and customs union as a transitional arrangement.

Q
Public opinion swings can be really startling.  The plot of the ratio for/against a second referendum as a function of time extrapolates to 85/15 in 6 months.  Not that I believe this really, but we may all be surprised..

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 10781
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #87 on: July 18, 2017, 08:58:13 PM »
The problem is compounded by having a referendum with no contingency plan for a vote to leave the EU followed by Theresa May deciding the UK will leave by a particular date, without time to enact all the necessary legislation.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15172
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #88 on: July 18, 2017, 09:11:31 PM »
[...] without time to enact all the necessary legislation.

Or without a plan...other than just get out...

I think the delusion that the UK just can walk away, without any serious consequences for the economy, policies in several areas as well as the relations with other countries is at the root of the UK government's "strategy" or rather lack thereof. 

Q

PS At least every Brit now knows wat Euratom is, why it is such a good idea and what happens when you leave it....
The whole Brexit will be a "crash" course (pun intended) in "what is the point of being a member of the European Union".
Like often in life you only truly realise what you had when it is gone.....
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 09:23:08 PM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline Mr. Minnow

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 353
  • Location: UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #89 on: July 19, 2017, 02:48:41 PM »
Or without a plan...other than just get out...

I think the delusion that the UK just can walk away, without any serious consequences for the economy, policies in several areas as well as the relations with other countries is at the root of the UK government's "strategy" or rather lack thereof. 

Q

PS At least every Brit now knows wat Euratom is, why it is such a good idea and what happens when you leave it....
The whole Brexit will be a "crash" course (pun intended) in "what is the point of being a member of the European Union".
Like often in life you only truly realise what you had when it is gone.....

The problem is that even if Brexit does go pear-shaped - and I agree it's looking more inevitable by the day - it doesn't necessarily follow that the Brexiteers will get the blame. Their friends in the press will be only too happy to push the narrative that it's all the fault of the EU for not letting us have our cake and eat it, treacherous remoaners/saboteurs/enemies of the people for "talking down the country" and "thwarting the will of the people", the "liberal metropolitan elite", the SNP for undermining Brexit by seeking indyref2, etc.. They will blame everyone but themselves. Sadly, it might well work.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:58:41 PM by Mr. Minnow »

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15172
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #90 on: July 19, 2017, 08:59:41 PM »
The problem is that even if Brexit does go pear-shaped - and I agree it's looking more inevitable by the day - it doesn't necessarily follow that the Brexiteers will get the blame. Their friends in the press will be only too happy to push the narrative that it's all the fault of the EU for not letting us have our cake and eat it, treacherous remoaners/saboteurs/enemies of the people for "talking down the country" and "thwarting the will of the people", the "liberal metropolitan elite", the SNP for undermining Brexit by seeking indyref2, etc.. They will blame everyone but themselves. Sadly, it might well work.

Agreed, the EU and "saboteurs" will get the blame...

Which I find a quite worrisome prospect for the UK as a society, for its political stability and unity (Scotland, NI) and its relations with the rest of Europe.

The impact of that "fall out" might be stronger and longer lasting than the exit from the EU in itself.

Q
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 09:02:53 PM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline nodogen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2017, 12:14:38 AM »

The impact of that "fall out" might be stronger and longer lasting than the exit from the EU in itself.
Q

The sooner the civil war starts the better. Frankly I'm utterly fed up with the ignorant deluded bollocks that comes out of the mouths of brexiteers (or as I like to call them, fucking idiots).

Offline Crudblud

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 485
  • Location: Multiple Fridge-Freezers
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #92 on: July 20, 2017, 12:30:07 AM »
I'm just tired of the bullheaded defiance on the one side and the smirking condescension on the other. Sore winners, sore losers, two troops of monkeys, allegiances pledged to opposing flags, flinging their own excrement at each other. It's pathetic.

Offline nodogen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #93 on: July 20, 2017, 01:26:03 AM »
I'm just tired of the bullheaded defiance on the one side and the smirking condescension on the other. Sore winners, sore losers, two troops of monkeys, allegiances pledged to opposing flags, flinging their own excrement at each other. It's pathetic.

When you take together all the truly informed opinion regarding what Brexit will result in, you can sum it up as "bad for the country." That that is what we are on course for is bound to anger a lot of people. I'm not a massive fan of the EU, but to be driven to this state of affairs, because Cameron thought he could fix his party, because bigots want it to be 1950 again, because May wants to keep her job, is not something to just say "tut, tut" about.

Offline Mr. Minnow

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 353
  • Location: UK
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2017, 01:32:21 AM »
When you take together all the truly informed opinion regarding what Brexit will result in, you can sum it up as "bad for the country." That that is what we are on course for is bound to anger a lot of people. I'm not a massive fan of the EU, but to be driven to this state of affairs, because Cameron thought he could fix his party, because bigots want it to be 1950 again, because May wants to keep her job, is not something to just say "tut, tut" about.

Yep. It feels like being sat in the back of a car that's hurtling towards a cliff edge, with any attempt to question the wisdom of it being met with cries of "How dare you! This is what the driver wants!".

Offline Crudblud

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 485
  • Location: Multiple Fridge-Freezers
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #95 on: July 20, 2017, 02:31:34 AM »
When you take together all the truly informed opinion regarding what Brexit will result in, you can sum it up as "bad for the country." That that is what we are on course for is bound to anger a lot of people. I'm not a massive fan of the EU, but to be driven to this state of affairs, because Cameron thought he could fix his party, because bigots want it to be 1950 again, because May wants to keep her job, is not something to just say "tut, tut" about.

Cameron should never have called the referendum in the first place, but he did, and now we're in the shit. His hubris, May's putting career before country, these are not to be merely disapproved of, I agree. But I am not talking about that. What I am talking about is the unnecessarily antagonistic attitudes people on both sides have brought to the situation. The holier-than-thou remainers and the "I'll shoot myself just to spite you" leavers are engaging in an ugly and stupid manner with issues that should be dealt with more seriously, respectfully, decorously. You can say that it doesn't matter, but it is clear to me that tone was a deciding factor in the referendum, and it also spells trouble for the exit negotiations, as well as the stability of our society in future.

Maybe you think I'm daft for being concerned about this, that's okay, I'm used to being looked at funny for taking the positions I do, but I believe that it is highly important to be courteous and understanding when faced with a situation that has such serious implications for the future of our country. Be angry, yes, but channel that anger into something productive, insults and bickering will not help us weather this storm.

Contemporaryclassical

  • Guest
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #96 on: July 20, 2017, 02:48:40 AM »
I usually stay away from political discussion but to say the least, I'm not pleased  >:(

Offline nodogen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #97 on: July 20, 2017, 05:36:20 AM »
The problem is that even if Brexit does go pear-shaped - and I agree it's looking more inevitable by the day - it doesn't necessarily follow that the Brexiteers will get the blame. Their friends in the press will be only too happy to push the narrative that it's all the fault of the EU for not letting us have our cake and eat it, treacherous remoaners/saboteurs/enemies of the people for "talking down the country" and "thwarting the will of the people", the "liberal metropolitan elite", the SNP for undermining Brexit by seeking indyref2, etc.. They will blame everyone but themselves. Sadly, it might well work.

It's started already, from reading the comments on the BBC news website. Those conniving bureaucrats at the EU say that the UK apparently can't have its cake and eat it. Reality can be so obstructive.

kishnevi

  • Guest
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #98 on: July 20, 2017, 07:33:25 AM »
I'm just tired of the bullheaded defiance on the one side and the smirking condescension on the other. Sore winners, sore losers, two troops of monkeys, allegiances pledged to opposing flags, flinging their own excrement at each other. It's pathetic.

That could well describe US politics now....

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15172
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #99 on: July 21, 2017, 10:22:52 PM »
A rather harsh perspective from the former colonies:

Brexit a farce worthy of Fawlty Towers episode

Quote
What has resulted is the long-awaited 13th episode of Fawlty Towers. Basil Fawlty, you will recall, aspired to operate his run-down B&B as a grand hotel but without tone-lowering undesirables, especially foreigners. German guests, in particular.

"Don't mention the war," sniggers Louise.

In this 13th excruciating episode, "the Major" with his tipsy and dipsy squaring up to foreigners of all kinds, is brilliantly recast as Boris Johnson, but I have to say that Margaret Thatcher would make a much better Sybil than Theresa May.



Speaking of John Cleese...  8)

Fawlty Towers star John Cleese backs Brexit - and suggested HANGING Jean-Claude Juncker

Q
À chacun son goût.