Author Topic: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode  (Read 3517 times)

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snyprrr

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode CHESTER BENNIGTON/CHRIS CORNELL
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2017, 08:04:52 AM »
I have tried to write Songs in every key, or tried to mess with my comfort zone at every turn (not always a good idea).

I try to base everything on MY INSTRUMENT, which, of course, means I've had to re-Compose much to accommodate my lowering tones as I age.

This came up yesterday when someone brought up Bennington/Cornell, the fact they were friends, and that they both SCREEEEAMED like no one else, and then the fact that even Robert Plant and Stephen Tyler have had to lower the keys of their Songs in order to still perform them (anyone remember Plant's horrendous singing at that LiveAid or whatever it was?).


1) Bminor

It's just my go-to. F# is in my "node".

2) My highest "tone" is a high Eb, but, in order to sing rock-n-roll, I've had to push it up to E, very screechy but effective.

3) C#minor

My new fav

4) F#minor

Also great for me

5) G#minor

This one sets up all kinds of interesting intersections with my voice







WHITESNAKE:

'Still of the Night' is in F#. At the karaoke, it's in E, but I raise it to F# and I can sing the high notes with no problem.

'Here I Go Again' is in G, and it's just waaay to high. I lowered it to E (my super natural is Eb) and I can barely make it through, though, I can high the high note with ease.


Cher's 'Believe' is in F. In order for me to do the most awesome Cher/Elvis impersonation you've ever heard, I have to rotate the Song 360 degrees to the key of B. BUT, in that key, I sound just like Cher and Elvis combined. It's a hoot!



I WRITE IN EVERY KEY, USING MODES, TO TRY TO HIT ALL THE DIFFERENT PLATEAUS. I can sing the "heartbreak note" in every key... BUT ONE!!! :o ??? :o ???



For me to sing Benny Mardones 'Into the Night' perfectly, I have to transpose down from Cminor to F#minor.

To sing Aerosmith 'Dream On' I have to really lower it (it's in Cminor, right? keyboard song)

Offline amw

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2017, 08:44:31 AM »
I seem to find B major comfortable for both singing and playing.

Not THE most popular key, B major...
But the key many piano teachers begin to teach scales in, because it lies under the hands more easily than any other!

Though the key to which scales come most naturally to me is C#/Db major, but that's only a slight variation of B major where the hand-shapes are concerned (it's still thumb on the white notes and fingers on the black ones).

millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2017, 10:02:36 AM »
As far as my most "natural" mode, it's mixoydian. The flat 7th sounds most natural to me, and it also sounds like the blues, with the flat 7. Also, it's used in "psychedelic" music, such as "Tomorrow Never Knows" by The Beatles, and in Indian ragas.

Offline Cato

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode CHESTER BENNIGTON/CHRIS CORNELL
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2017, 10:38:27 AM »
I have tried to write Songs in every key, or tried to mess with my comfort zone at every turn (not always a good idea)


I WRITE IN EVERY KEY, USING MODES, TO TRY TO HIT ALL THE DIFFERENT PLATEAUS. I can sing the "heartbreak note" in every key... BUT ONE!!! :o ??? :o ???


Sooo...which one?!   :D  Very interesting comments, Mr. Snyprrr !

in my choral work, Exaudi me, the chord which is used as a mountain-top from which the singers lament is D-Ab-Bb-F-C-Gb-Ab-C.

Again, note a D minor/major aspect to it.

See Reply #13 for the links to the score and Karl Henning's work with the MIDI version:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26569.0.html

I failed to mention that the work uses a 9-tone scale of D-Eb-F-F#-G#-A-Bb-B-C-D, although the three missing tones are used by themselves at times (but not as a "scale").

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2017, 02:00:41 PM »
But the key many piano teachers begin to teach scales in, because it lies under the hands more easily than any other!

Though the key to which scales come most naturally to me is C#/Db major, but that's only a slight variation of B major where the hand-shapes are concerned (it's still thumb on the white notes and fingers on the black ones).

For scales, Chopin taught C sharp major first because it was the easiest in his view, and C major last. Most teachers do almost the exact opposite!
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Offline Cato

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2017, 04:22:43 AM »
Hello Everyone!

On Sunday I was somewhat surprised by Mrs. Cato during Mass.

A hymn called Shelter me, O God was being sung, which has a nice enough refrain, the rest of it being somewhat clumsy at times.

Toward the end she asked me: "What key is that?" and she pointed to this hymn's key signature.

I explained that the signature was either Ab-Major or F minor, this hymn using F minor, which gives it a darker sound.  She nodded and said:

"That's my key.  I like that."  0:) 

Or...she liked it in this particular hymn!  8)


"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2017, 04:53:37 AM »
:-)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2017, 08:25:07 AM »
But the key many piano teachers begin to teach scales in, because it lies under the hands more easily than any other!

Though the key to which scales come most naturally to me is C#/Db major, but that's only a slight variation of B major where the hand-shapes are concerned (it's still thumb on the white notes and fingers on the black ones).

Yup. B major, C#/Db, and F#/Gb naturally have the hands in a position which most readily accommodate the (at first awkward and troublesome) thumb for many a beginner to intermediate keyboard player.  It is not apocryphal but a fact that because of the nature of the hand, C major -- or any mode played on all white keys -- presents the greatest challenge to play evenly, because all the keys are on an even plane and the the fingers of our hands are not.)

Because a particular scale or key is, literally, handy, does not mean it is your innate and internal pitch -- or 'vibe.' I think if a person does have one pitch or scale they feel is more 'theirs' it has more to do with the perception of hearing than what they might comfortably play or sing.

...on the other hand, everything vibrates.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 08:29:15 AM by Monsieur Croche »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2017, 09:11:36 AM »
We're all just extensions of The Big Note  0:)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2017, 10:43:30 AM »
Monsieur Croche: Speaking of piano fingering, this book explains what you were talking about. This is one reason Chopin wrote in weird keys like Ab, etc.



[Because a particular scale or key is, literally, handy, does not mean it is your innate and internal pitch -- or 'vibe.' I think if a person does have one pitch or scale they feel is more 'theirs' it has more to do with the perception of hearing than what they might comfortably play or sing....on the other hand, everything vibrates.]

Yes, hearing seems to be a disembodied perception. I think that perhaps it does have to do with actual physical resonance, depending on what you're after. If your ideal is disembodied, then go for it.


« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 10:46:36 AM by millionrainbows »

Offline aleazk

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2017, 11:17:35 AM »
C # major and related modes... because of its handiness in the keyboard and its particular register location (in A=440 hz).

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2017, 05:37:58 AM »
Monsieur Croche: Speaking of piano fingering, this book explains what you were talking about. This is one reason Chopin wrote in weird keys like Ab, etc.

Yep, out of the complete rep of Chopin's piano pieces, all but one -- I've forgotten which (so much for my pedagogy cred) -- is said to be technically "against the hand."  ALL the rest, no matter how difficult, once learned, "Fit your hand like a glove."

If either composers or listeners honed in on only the pitch area with which they felt the strongest sympathetic vibration (a kind of pun, if you will), I suspect droning would be a world-wide popular taste -- and it isn't.  ;-)

[Because a particular scale or key is, literally, handy, does not mean it is your innate and internal pitch -- or 'vibe.' I think if a person does have one pitch or scale they feel is more 'theirs' it has more to do with the perception of hearing than what they might comfortably play or sing....on the other hand, everything vibrates.]

Yes, hearing seems to be a disembodied perception. I think that perhaps it does have to do with actual physical resonance, depending on what you're after. If your ideal is disembodied, then go for it.

The problem w 'disembodied' is, well, there is no body to vibrate or be vibrated.  Since making and listening to music is all about vibrations... :-)


Best regards.
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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2017, 06:01:54 AM »
My hearing is fully embodied, I am happy to report.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2017, 12:27:04 PM »
...I think if a person does have one pitch or scale they feel is more 'theirs' it has more to do with the perception of hearing than what they might comfortably play or sing...

But singing has to do with throat resonance and vibration. If we base our pitch on perception of hearing, this seems to separate perception from the body, and 'disembodies' it. Is that still what you think?I'm getting mixed signals.

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2017, 08:44:56 PM »
But singing has to do with throat resonance and vibration. If we base our pitch on perception of hearing, this seems to separate perception from the body, and 'disembodies' it. Is that still what you think?I'm getting mixed signals.

Fixating on the physicality of your vocal chords is really limited, though it is of course utterly personal.  It is their length that determines what is the most easily and readily produced pitch.  When we listen, it is of course via the ear, but also our entire body is affected by resonance.  It is entirely -- most likely -- possible that the whole being, the ears and body, 'resonate' more fully to some pitch or harmony other than the one limited by the happenstance of the length of your vocal chords.  Not a mixed message, but a distinction I had not before articulated.  We don't listen with our vocal chords!
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millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2017, 01:20:07 PM »
Fixating on the physicality of your vocal chords is really limited, though it is of course utterly personal.  It is their length that determines what is the most easily and readily produced pitch.  When we listen, it is of course via the ear, but also our entire body is affected by resonance.  It is entirely -- most likely -- possible that the whole being, the ears and body, 'resonate' more fully to some pitch or harmony other than the one limited by the happenstance of the length of your vocal chords.  Not a mixed message, but a distinction I had not before articulated.  We don't listen with our vocal chords!

But isn't the point of finding a pitch which resonates with our being a vibratory, physical thing? After all, resonance has to do with physical vibration. Can we detect this solely with with our ears, and would that be the goal?

It appears that you consider it possible to separate physicality and resonance of the body, from listening, as if listening were a detached, non-physical activity by comparison; or at least an activity which is not dependent upon or "limited" (as you put it) by physical factors of resonance.

It seems to me that unless listening is connected with resonance with the body, it is separated into a more cerebral or mental realm. This seems limiting in its own way.

Offline Madiel

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2017, 01:39:49 PM »
But isn't the point of finding a pitch which resonates with our being a vibratory, physical thing? After all, resonance has to do with physical vibration. Can we detect this solely with with our ears, and would that be the goal?

It appears that you consider it possible to separate physicality and resonance of the body, from listening, as if listening were a detached, non-physical activity by comparison; or at least an activity which is not dependent upon or "limited" (as you put it) by physical factors of resonance.

It seems to me that unless listening is connected with resonance with the body, it is separated into a more cerebral or mental realm. This seems limiting in its own way.

I really don't think you read the post you're responding to carefully enough.
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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2017, 05:36:34 AM »
But isn't the point of finding a pitch which resonates with our being a vibratory, physical thing? After all, resonance has to do with physical vibration. Can we detect this solely with with our ears, and would that be the goal?

It appears that you consider it possible to separate physicality and resonance of the body, from listening, as if listening were a detached, non-physical activity by comparison; or at least an activity which is not dependent upon or "limited" (as you put it) by physical factors of resonance.

It seems to me that unless listening is connected with resonance with the body, it is separated into a more cerebral or mental realm. This seems limiting in its own way.
It seems you are hung up on a point I never argued for or made.  Did you miss the BODY mention in what I said?

...our entire body is affected by resonance.  It is entirely -- most likely -- possible that the whole being, the ears and body, 'resonate' more fully to some pitch or harmony other than the one limited by the happenstance of the length of your vocal chords."

That tiny bit of our body, the vocal chords, is not any kind of receptor of sound, but what we produce sound with... the rather arbitrary caprice of how long your vocal chords are and what pitch their owner can most readily produce is the 'home pitch', not for your body or soul, but only for and by the physical characteristics of your vocal chords.  Yes, you vibrate when you sing, but not necessarily more to one pitch vs. another because one pitch is most readily produced. 

Our corporeal reaction to hearing music -- and what we are most receptive to re: pitch or key area -- vs. what pitch we as individuals can most readily produce by singing are, I think, two entirely different subjects.








« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 05:40:01 AM by Monsieur Croche »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2017, 03:28:52 PM »
My natural scale is a scale most unnatural.

We make it work.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2017, 01:26:35 PM »
My natural scale is a scale most unnatural.

We make it work.

B - b - b - b- but do you mean to say that music is artificial?

Gadzooks! Who would'a thunk it?
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~