Author Topic: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode  (Read 2236 times)

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millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2017, 01:20:07 PM »
Fixating on the physicality of your vocal chords is really limited, though it is of course utterly personal.  It is their length that determines what is the most easily and readily produced pitch.  When we listen, it is of course via the ear, but also our entire body is affected by resonance.  It is entirely -- most likely -- possible that the whole being, the ears and body, 'resonate' more fully to some pitch or harmony other than the one limited by the happenstance of the length of your vocal chords.  Not a mixed message, but a distinction I had not before articulated.  We don't listen with our vocal chords!

But isn't the point of finding a pitch which resonates with our being a vibratory, physical thing? After all, resonance has to do with physical vibration. Can we detect this solely with with our ears, and would that be the goal?

It appears that you consider it possible to separate physicality and resonance of the body, from listening, as if listening were a detached, non-physical activity by comparison; or at least an activity which is not dependent upon or "limited" (as you put it) by physical factors of resonance.

It seems to me that unless listening is connected with resonance with the body, it is separated into a more cerebral or mental realm. This seems limiting in its own way.

Offline ørfeo

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2017, 01:39:49 PM »
But isn't the point of finding a pitch which resonates with our being a vibratory, physical thing? After all, resonance has to do with physical vibration. Can we detect this solely with with our ears, and would that be the goal?

It appears that you consider it possible to separate physicality and resonance of the body, from listening, as if listening were a detached, non-physical activity by comparison; or at least an activity which is not dependent upon or "limited" (as you put it) by physical factors of resonance.

It seems to me that unless listening is connected with resonance with the body, it is separated into a more cerebral or mental realm. This seems limiting in its own way.

I really don't think you read the post you're responding to carefully enough.
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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2017, 05:36:34 AM »
But isn't the point of finding a pitch which resonates with our being a vibratory, physical thing? After all, resonance has to do with physical vibration. Can we detect this solely with with our ears, and would that be the goal?

It appears that you consider it possible to separate physicality and resonance of the body, from listening, as if listening were a detached, non-physical activity by comparison; or at least an activity which is not dependent upon or "limited" (as you put it) by physical factors of resonance.

It seems to me that unless listening is connected with resonance with the body, it is separated into a more cerebral or mental realm. This seems limiting in its own way.
It seems you are hung up on a point I never argued for or made.  Did you miss the BODY mention in what I said?

...our entire body is affected by resonance.  It is entirely -- most likely -- possible that the whole being, the ears and body, 'resonate' more fully to some pitch or harmony other than the one limited by the happenstance of the length of your vocal chords."

That tiny bit of our body, the vocal chords, is not any kind of receptor of sound, but what we produce sound with... the rather arbitrary caprice of how long your vocal chords are and what pitch their owner can most readily produce is the 'home pitch', not for your body or soul, but only for and by the physical characteristics of your vocal chords.  Yes, you vibrate when you sing, but not necessarily more to one pitch vs. another because one pitch is most readily produced. 

Our corporeal reaction to hearing music -- and what we are most receptive to re: pitch or key area -- vs. what pitch we as individuals can most readily produce by singing are, I think, two entirely different subjects.








« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 05:40:01 AM by Monsieur Croche »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2017, 03:28:52 PM »
My natural scale is a scale most unnatural.

We make it work.
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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2017, 01:26:35 PM »
My natural scale is a scale most unnatural.

We make it work.

B - b - b - b- but do you mean to say that music is artificial?

Gadzooks! Who would'a thunk it?
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millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2017, 10:01:33 AM »
I really don't think you read the post you're responding to carefully enough.

You don't? That is not my concern. Why don't you join in the discussion? I am making my point to my satisfaction.

millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2017, 10:23:07 AM »
It seems you are hung up on a point I never argued for or made.  Did you miss the BODY mention in what I said?

Yes, I read your posts carefully. Perhaps it's my interpretation that's giving you pause.

That tiny bit of our body, the vocal chords, is not any kind of receptor of sound, but what we produce sound with... the rather arbitrary caprice of how long your vocal chords are and what pitch their owner can most readily produce is the 'home pitch', not for your body or soul, but only for and by the physical characteristics of your vocal chords.  Yes, you vibrate when you sing, but not necessarily more to one pitch vs. another because one pitch is most readily produced.

What I'm referring to is your characterizations: "that tiny bit of our body, the vocal chords"(subordinating the physical),

"arbitrary caprice of how long your vocal chords are"(as if this were unconnected to our specific 'natural pitch identity'),

"what pitch their owner can produce" (separation of body from "owner"),

"not for body or soul, but only for and by the physical characteristics of your vocal chords" (implying again that vocal chords are separate from 'body or soul'),

and finally "Yes, you vibrate when you sing, but not necessarily more to one pitch vs. another because one pitch is most readily produced" as if physical resonance of vocal chords had nothing to do with "tuning in" to our "natural pitch identity."
I suggest you read about the Indian approach to singing and tone.

Our corporeal reaction to hearing music -- and what we are most receptive to re: pitch or key area -- vs. what pitch we as individuals can most readily produce by singing are, I think, two entirely different subjects.

Again, it shows: it is apparent that you consider our "corporeal" reaction to hearing music, and reception to pitch (corporeal means physical, tangible) as 'passive' and 'disembodied' (strange that you would use the term 'corporeal' in reference to this) is separate from what our bodies can produce and resonate with.

"Being" is sound is my point.

I think Orfeo's response also misses the point, while implying that I am careless in my response, which is not true. And yes, Monsieur, I do note your use of the term "body," although it seems you are blissfully unaware of the implications of that use.

This is the centuries-old 'separation of the soul from the body." I suggest reading some Allen Ginsberg.

Offline ørfeo

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2017, 01:24:45 PM »
You don't? That is not my concern. Why don't you join in the discussion? I am making my point to my satisfaction.

It SHOULD be your concern, because you are spilling a lot of pixels on something that Monsieur Croche never actually said. And you are not enhancing your reputation in doing so.

The fact is the vocal cords ARE a tiny part of the body. You seem quite confused about the difference between how you generate resonance and how you would feel that resonance. And so you are obsessing over the fact that the part of the body used to generate the pitch of the voice is just this one little part. But Monsieur Croche has said, repeatedly now, that the whole body resonates.

You threw in this stuff about resonance of the throat that has absolutely nothing to with WHICH PITCH the voice creates, which was the actual topic of the thread.

There. Is that enough of a contribution for you?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 01:29:12 PM by ørfeo »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2017, 01:26:39 PM »
B - b - b - b- but do you mean to say that music is artificial?

Gadzooks! Who would'a thunk it?
"Keep the Art in Artifice!"

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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2017, 04:08:23 AM »
Why am I reminded of the grassroots indignation over GMOs?... Frankenfood!

Atonal music? Frankensound!!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2017, 07:50:58 AM »
The question of "natural key" is a tricky one, if we talk about equal tuning, because they are essentially all alike. But if we talk meantone tuning I prefer d-minor.
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millionrainbows

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2017, 11:28:56 AM »
It SHOULD be your concern, because you are spilling a lot of pixels on something that Monsieur Croche never actually said. And you are not enhancing your reputation in doing so.

This is totally irrelevant. The fact is, there is an apparently unconscious assumption at work, which is separating the head from the body, and I disagree with it.

The fact is the vocal cords ARE a tiny part of the body. You seem quite confused about the difference between how you generate resonance and how you would feel that resonance. And so you are obsessing over the fact that the part of the body used to generate the pitch of the voice is just this one little part. But Monsieur Croche has said, repeatedly now, that the whole body resonates.
You threw in this stuff about resonance of the throat that has absolutely nothing to with WHICH PITCH the voice creates, which was the actual topic of the thread.There. Is that enough of a contribution for you?

I disagree with the way you are arbitrarily setting parameters on this 'discussion.' You are more interested in invalidation than in the ideas presented.

Offline ørfeo

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2017, 02:15:33 PM »
They're not arbitrary. They're based on the title of the thread and what everyone was talking about. And they're explaining that you read Monsieur Croche's comment in a way that is out of context.

I repeat: the vocal cords determine pitch. Not the rest of the body.  Whatever you think the "parameters" are, that is a fact.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 02:20:24 PM by ørfeo »
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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2017, 12:49:08 PM »
Yes, I read your posts carefully. Perhaps it's my interpretation that's giving you pause.

What I'm referring to is your characterizations: "that tiny bit of our body, the vocal chords"(subordinating the physical),

"arbitrary caprice of how long your vocal chords are"(as if this were unconnected to our specific 'natural pitch identity'),

"what pitch their owner can produce" (separation of body from "owner"),

"not for body or soul, but only for and by the physical characteristics of your vocal chords" (implying again that vocal chords are separate from 'body or soul'),

and finally "Yes, you vibrate when you sing, but not necessarily more to one pitch vs. another because one pitch is most readily produced" as if physical resonance of vocal chords had nothing to do with "tuning in" to our "natural pitch identity."
I suggest you read about the Indian approach to singing and tone.

Again, it shows: it is apparent that you consider our "corporeal" reaction to hearing music, and reception to pitch (corporeal means physical, tangible) as 'passive' and 'disembodied' (strange that you would use the term 'corporeal' in reference to this) is separate from what our bodies can produce and resonate with.

"Being" is sound is my point.

I think Orfeo's response also misses the point, while implying that I am careless in my response, which is not true. And yes, Monsieur, I do note your use of the term "body," although it seems you are blissfully unaware of the implications of that use.

This is the centuries-old 'separation of the soul from the body." I suggest reading some Allen Ginsberg.


Whatever the pitch is we can most comfortable to produce with our vocal chords, it is the entire being, soul AND BODY, that resonates when subjected to a mass of musical vibration.  It is entirely possible and most likely, (considering the entire mass of all the tissues and fluids of our physical selves) that all of that resonates 'most sympathetically' to some other pitch or full harmony other than the sound we can most easily make with our vocal chords.
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2017, 05:11:21 PM »
I am making my point to my satisfaction.

Alrighty, then.  All well and good, save for that inconvenience called "discussion," wherein it is more than a little expected you will make your point enough that it will satisfy others.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 05:56:39 PM by Monsieur Croche »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2017, 03:31:07 AM »
I am making my point to my satisfaction.

You are only formalizing what has long been observed:  the onanist character of your participation here.
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2017, 06:05:29 PM »
You are only formalizing what has long been observed:  the onanist character of your participation here.

Despite complaints concerning the characterization implied in this post, I can only say that it is eminently on point. Interesting concept, onanism, when applied to the singularly selfish manner in which a supposed 'dialog' is carried on. Maybe it will spur on some introspection. Small miracles do occasionally happen.

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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2017, 08:57:20 PM »
Despite complaints concerning the characterization implied in this post, I can only say that it is eminently on point. Interesting concept, onanism, when applied to the singularly selfish manner in which a supposed 'dialog' is carried on. Maybe it will spur on some introspection. Small miracles do occasionally happen.

GB

It might be an auditory hallucination, but I think I hear the many voices of a great collective "Thank you, Gurn."


Always best regards,
Monsieur Croche [aka PetrB]
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2017, 02:34:55 PM »
It might be an auditory hallucination, but I think I hear the many voices of a great collective "Thank you, Gurn."


Always best regards,
Monsieur Croche [aka PetrB]

Ce n'était rien, Monsieur.

I see that instead of taking my well-intended advice, our one-issue erstwhile bur has elected to depart. So it goes. It wouldn't do to have to agree with anyone else. Wouldn't be properly atonal...

8)
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Offline LKB

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Re: Your "Natural" Scale/Key/Mode
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2017, 12:50:07 AM »
I have noticed a vocal affinity for A1, but I'm not sure it's completely natural. Years of orchestral playing on the oboe, which generally began by producing A 440 for tuning, might well have steered this inclination. Or maybe it's simply the seven-octave span of daybreak in Mahler's First, which has lived in my head for decades.

A far as favorite keys, F-Major for me.  8)

Humming,

LKB
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