Author Topic: Royal Wedding.  (Read 3172 times)

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Parsifal

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2017, 09:29:34 AM »
Me neither. To me she looks very slightly "exotic" but I would have guessed a little oriental (e.g. Lebanese or Persian) admixture rather than African American. Not that it matters, but she is "passing as white" to my eyes.

Hi Jo498,

Since you are from Germany and presumably not a native English speaker (although your English is utterly impeccable) I'll give you an unsolicited tip on usage. The term 'oriental' is considered mildly offensive when applied to people. A Persian carpet is oriental, a Persian person is Asian (or West Asian). :)

Parsifal

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2017, 09:34:25 AM »
I feel justified because my wife lived in Germany for a time and she said that commenting on and correcting the behavior of people encountered in public is a cultural norm in Germany.

Spineur

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2017, 09:34:53 AM »
The term 'oriental' is considered mildly offensive when applied to people
How about grabbing women by the crotch, as your president brags about.  Le politiquement correct, c'est fini 

Parsifal

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2017, 09:39:01 AM »
How about grabbing women by the crotch, as your president brags about.  Le politiquement correct, c'est fini 

Please don't judge us all by our president. But I refer to Richard Nixon, who once said, "if the President does it, it is legal." That didn't end well for him.

Offline Turner

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2017, 10:38:19 AM »
Please don't judge us all by our president. But I refer to Richard Nixon, who once said, "if the President does it, it is legal." That didn't end well for him.

 ;D

Offline Jo498

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2017, 01:13:30 PM »
Thanks, I am not always on top of the latest PC developments. Maybe it even changed in German but "orientalisch" would for me be both more precise (because it usually refers to the near/middle east and not East Asia) and probably more polite than "asiatisch", so this seems to be different in contemporary English usage. The point was that apart from having rather fair skin she does not really have other features commonly associated with people of (subsaharan) African heritage.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Parsifal

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2017, 02:05:02 PM »
Thanks, I am not always on top of the latest PC developments. Maybe it even changed in German but "orientalisch" would for me be both more precise (because it usually refers to the near/middle east and not East Asia) and probably more polite than "asiatisch", so this seems to be different in contemporary English usage. The point was that apart from having rather fair skin she does not really have other features commonly associated with people of (subsaharan) African heritage.

I hope, from my phrasing, it was clear that I had no intention to shame you, but just to make you aware of a linguistic subtlety. In any case, I can only really comment on American implications in the use of the word, I don't know if conventions are the same in the UK or other English speaking countries.

Regarding Markle's relatively light skin, this may be related to some very ugly history. Being "black" used to be an important legal distinction in the US, since up until recently it was illegal in many jurisdictions for a 'black' to marry a white person and a 'black' person was excluded from many government benefits. It didn't matter if you looked black, or considered yourself black, it mattered whether your birth certificate said you were black. Any African lineage would classify you as black. So the 'black' side of Ms Markle's family may very well have had a large fraction of European lineage.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2017, 05:16:33 PM »
Thanks, I am not always on top of the latest PC developments. Maybe it even changed in German but "orientalisch" would for me be both more precise (because it usually refers to the near/middle east and not East Asia) and probably more polite than "asiatisch", so this seems to be different in contemporary English usage. The point was that apart from having rather fair skin she does not really have other features commonly associated with people of (subsaharan) African heritage.

I agree on all points. Until I saw the post (now deleted) sarcastically bewailing it, I didn't even suspect it, even though I've worked with people of African descent every day for the last 40 years, and have learned that skin color is not the only visible characteristic. I am also not up on all the latest PC developments, nor entirely sure I will adopt each and every one of them. For example, my partner for many years was a Mexican. I said something about 'Latino' or 'Hispanic' (can't remember which now) and he said "screw that, I'm a Mexican and proud of it". So, ones man's PC is another's insult. Why am I not surprised?  :D

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Offline Hollywood

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2017, 11:45:04 PM »
Nice to hear that my cousin Harry (10 times cousin, once removed) is getting married to a divorced, catholic, Los Angeles gal (3 things I have in common with her) AND that the royal Windsors are not making a big fuss about it. But it makes you wonder how the royals would have reacted if William wanted to marry a divorced, catholic, American girl. Since William is second in line for the crown and not sixth in line as Harry is currently, I bet there would have been some problems with that choice. I don't think the family really would enjoy having a repeat of the Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson scenario.  ;)  ;D

So congrats and good luck to Harry and his bride to be. May they have a long, happy life together.
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2017, 12:01:07 AM »
Nice to hear that my cousin Harry (10 times cousin, once removed) is getting married to a divorced, catholic, Los Angeles gal (3 things I have in common with her) AND that the royal Windsors are not making a big fuss about it. But it makes you wonder how the royals would have reacted if William wanted to marry a divorced, catholic, American girl. Since William is second in line for the crown and not sixth in line as Harry is currently, I bet there would have been some problems with that choice. I don't think the family really would enjoy having a repeat of the Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson scenario.  ;)  ;D

So congrats and good luck to Harry and his bride to be. May they have a long, happy life together.
An interesting point - thank you.
Fortunately things have moved on since the ghastly Edward VIII and Mrs S. Thank goodness George VI, the nervous, stuttering but dutiful King managed to restore the warmth between the crown and the people through his wartime role and refusing to leave London during the Blitz. It will be interesting to see what happens when Prince Charles becomes King because Camilla is, of course, divorced. Will she be Queen or given another title?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline nodogen

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2017, 01:48:02 AM »
An interesting point - thank you.
Fortunately things have moved on since the ghastly Edward VIII and Mrs S. Thank goodness George VI, the nervous, stuttering but dutiful King managed to restore the warmth between the crown and the people through his wartime role and refusing to leave London during the Blitz. It will be interesting to see what happens when Prince Charles becomes King because Camilla is, of course, divorced. Will she be Queen or given another title?

I bet Harry and William have already got a title for her.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2017, 12:42:25 PM »
I bet Harry and William have already got a title for her.
Perhaps, but their mother, like the rest of us, was not 'whiter than white' either.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline nodogen

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2017, 02:21:06 AM »
Perhaps, but their mother, like the rest of us, was not 'whiter than white' either.

Heresy!

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2017, 08:22:42 AM »
Well, the walk about in Nottingham went well yesterday. The crowds loved MM so, good luck to them.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Florestan

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2017, 04:56:08 AM »
A sad off-topic

King Mihai (Michael) of Romania has died today, aged 96. As a great-great-grandson of Queen Victoria, through both of his parents, Michael was a third cousin of Queen Margrethe II of Denmark, King Harald V of Norway, King Juan Carlos I of Spain, King Carl XVI Gustav of Sweden and Queen Elizabeth II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_I_of_Romania



October 25, 1921 - December 5, 2017

RIP.
Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.. - Mozart

Spineur

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2017, 03:11:18 PM »
Prince Harry wants to invite the Obama's at his wedding.  A big problem for Theresa May as Trump official visit to the UK hasnt even been scheduled.  As such this is a crime of lèse majesté against the current POTUS.  How is Mrs. May an her buoyant foreign minister going to avert the diplomatic crisis ?

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2017, 10:45:59 PM »
The term 'oriental' is considered mildly offensive when applied to people. A Persian carpet is oriental, a Persian person is Asian (or West Asian). :)

I would like to know WHO decides that neutral terms like "Oriental" can be offensive. Somehow I think the late Edward Said made that into a pejorative term. UGH!
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Offline Hollywood

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2017, 01:19:09 AM »
Prince Harry wants to invite the Obama's at his wedding.  A big problem for Theresa May as Trump official visit to the UK hasnt even been scheduled.  As such this is a crime of lèse majesté against the current POTUS.  How is Mrs. May an her buoyant foreign minister going to avert the diplomatic crisis ?

Damn shame if this makes a problem for Mrs. May. Prince Harry should be able to invite who he wants to his wedding. I can't wait to see what happens, if anything, to see the Obamas at this wedding. Perhaps Trump is throwing a tizzy fit because he hasn't been invited...one can hope.

Anyway, hasn't Trump already made an official visit to the UK yet? If not then he is about the only U.S. President who hasn't done this before  the end of their first year in office. But then again Trump does what he wants when he wants to.  ::)
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Offline Que

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2017, 01:45:30 AM »
Anyway, hasn't Trump already made an official visit to the UK yet? If not then he is about the only U.S. President who hasn't done this before  the end of their first year in office. But then again Trump does what he wants when he wants to.  ::)

After Brexit, Trump must be the biggest British headache in foreign affairs:

Quote
Mr Trump was invited on an official state visit — including a meeting with the Queen — to the UK earlier this year by Theresa May, on a White House visit in which she was pictured holding hands with the President.

While Downing Street insists the invitation still stands, it is yet to be scheduled and has led to reports that Buckingham Palace was unhappy at the idea of the negative publicity Mr Trump may bring to the monarch.

Promises of demonstrations if the President sets foot in the UK have been stiffened by a series of Twitter interventions by Mr Trump in British affairs, including one in which he criticised the UK’s response to terror attacks and London’s Muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan.

Most recently, he re-tweeted racist videos from far-right group Britain First, drawing public criticism from Downing Street.

Mr Trump is expected to make a fleeting visit to the UK in February to open the new US Embassy in London.

I hope the Obamas will make it onto the guest list.... Trump will be furious....   :D


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Offline nodogen

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Re: Royal Wedding.
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2017, 03:11:24 PM »
Prince Harry wants to invite the Obama's at his wedding.  A big problem for Theresa May as Trump official visit to the UK hasnt even been scheduled.  As such this is a crime of lèse majesté against the current POTUS.  How is Mrs. May an her buoyant foreign minister going to avert the diplomatic crisis ?

May doesn't deal with crises. She'll just carry on chewing that wasp.

I'm a staunch republican, but hopefully the Obamas will come to Harry's shindig and piss Trump off just that little bit more. Something else to tweet-rage about of a morning while he's sitting on the bog.