Author Topic: World Cup 2018  (Read 6239 times)

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Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #200 on: July 16, 2018, 02:57:27 AM »
In 1990 Pele predicted that an African team was going to win the FIFA World Cup by the year 2000. He was wrong by 18 years.  >:D

Griezmann should have seen the yellow card for simulation and Perisic's handball, while obvious, was not obviously intentional. I have lauded and applauded the refereeing, both on-field and VAR, all during the tournament --- how could I have guessed they saved the worst for last?  :(

Normally, I am a bit against calling handballs, because of the arbitrary/subjective nature of the call. But in this case I think the ref got it right. Perisic opens his hand flat and moves his hand/arm out of its natural position to 'palm' it or intercept it. Maybe it was unintentional in the sense that he is trying to contort his body to do something else. But in so doing he moves his hand to intercept the ball. The problem, though, is that his arm/hand are moving and this isn't an easy call where the hand is hit by the ball without moving. Still, I'd say he got it right.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #201 on: July 16, 2018, 03:31:54 AM »
Normally, I am a bit against calling handballs, because of the arbitrary/subjective nature of the call. But in this case I think the ref got it right. Perisic opens his hand flat and moves his hand/arm out of its natural position to 'palm' it or intercept it. Maybe it was unintentional in the sense that he is trying to contort his body to do something else. But in so doing he moves his hand to intercept the ball. The problem, though, is that his arm/hand are moving and this isn't an easy call where the hand is hit by the ball without moving. Still, I'd say he got it right.

During the match I agreed with Pitana --- and implicitly with you. After the match was over I've seen countless replays and I am not that convinced anymore.

Maybe one way out of this conundrum is to state once and for all that any handball, irrespective of  whether it's intentional or not (I still say in Perisic's case was unintentional), will be penalized.

But then again, could a player jump without moving the hands first up and then down?

Frankly, I don't see any clear-cut solution for disputable handballs, as opposed to offsides or goal-line balls where a technology similar to that used in tennis produces unequivocal results.

Bottom line, I still maintain that overall France was better than Croatia in this match but also that the free kick which resulted in 1-0 for France was a gross error and the penalty at least debatable, and that we would never know what the final result would have been without them.

I am biased, though, as I have rooted for Croatia with all my heart.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #202 on: July 16, 2018, 03:37:01 AM »
Will you give me France-Denmark a shamefully, blatantly non-combat match?


Yes, indeed a dreary boring match. I only watched it to the end because of the Danish participation.
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Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #203 on: July 16, 2018, 04:00:17 AM »
During the match I agreed with Pitana --- and implicitly with you. After the match was over I've seen countless replays and I am not that convinced anymore.

Maybe one way out of this conundrum is to state once and for all that any handball, irrespective of  whether it's intentional or not (I still say in Perisic's case was unintentional), will be penalized.

But then again, could a player jump without moving the hands first up and then down?

Frankly, I don't see any clear-cut solution for disputable handballs, as opposed to offsides or goal-line balls where a technology similar to that used in tennis produces unequivocal results.

Bottom line, I still maintain that overall France was better than Croatia in this match but also that the free kick which resulted in 1-0 for France was a gross error and the penalty at least debatable, and that we would never know what the final result would have been without them.

I am biased, though, as I have rooted for Croatia with all my heart.
I'd be ok to penalize any handball in the penalty area. It could be different outside the area (but maybe better to be consistent). I saw a handball in one of the earlier games (forget who) where it was unintentional, but the guy had his hands over his head, so it was automatically called. Even though there was nothing the guy could do to evade it, the blanket rule made it much easier to determine (and accept).
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Offline Madiel

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #204 on: July 16, 2018, 04:04:29 AM »
Hands are not typically over heads.

They are, however, typically alongside one's body. And arms cannot be cut off.

The proposition of penalising every handball is frankly ridiculous for this reason. All you would get would be opponents deliberately aiming at bodies in the knowledge that at torso height they have a nearly 50% chance of hitting the forbidden limbs.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #205 on: July 16, 2018, 04:16:22 AM »
Hands are not typically over heads.

Agreed. But then again can players really not jump without hands up (Denmark's Poulsen case)? Judging by athletics, it can be done alright. And especially when you know that having your hands over your head is going more likely than not to result in a penalty in the unfortunate but only too possible case the ball hits your hand, or viceversa, why do they do it still, I wonder?

Quote
They are, however, typically alongside one's body. And arms cannot be cut off.

Precisely (Perisic's case).

Quote
The proposition of penalising every handball is frankly ridiculous for this reason. All you would get would be opponents deliberately aiming at bodies in the knowledge that at torso height they have a nearly 50% chance of hitting the forbidden limbs.

This.

As I said, I really don't know what could be done in order to eliminate once and for all any subjectivity in handballs.  ???
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Offline Florestan

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #206 on: July 16, 2018, 04:18:28 AM »

Yes, indeed a dreary boring match. I only watched it to the end because of the Danish participation.

My problem was not that much the boredom in itself; it was not the only boring match. The problem was that both teams were obviously content with a draw and made no attempt to conceal it. They might have as well left the field and go have a drink together celebrating their qualifying for the next round.  ;D
"I compose music because I must give utterance to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts." --- Sergei Rachmaninoff

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #207 on: July 16, 2018, 04:56:46 AM »
My problem was not that much the boredom in itself; it was not the only boring match. The problem was that both teams were obviously content with a draw and made no attempt to conceal it. They might have as well left the field and go have a drink together celebrating their qualifying for the next round.  ;D


Quite agree. This made the boredom more frustrating than usual.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #208 on: July 16, 2018, 05:13:49 AM »

Quite agree. This made the boredom more frustrating than usual.

That match was the main reason why I wanted both Denmark and France to get out of the competition.  ;D
"I compose music because I must give utterance to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts." --- Sergei Rachmaninoff

Offline Madiel

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #209 on: July 16, 2018, 05:51:21 AM »

Quite agree. This made the boredom more frustrating than usual.

What was more frustrating was watching Australia squander any chance of progressing at Denmark's expense.
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Offline Ken B

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #210 on: July 16, 2018, 08:43:05 AM »
So Andrei, boredom punctuated by cheating? I'll take curling.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline Florestan

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #211 on: July 16, 2018, 09:47:39 AM »
So Andrei, boredom punctuated by cheating?

Bottom line it's just a game we Yurpeans criticize freely and willingly --- way better than Justin Bieber Trudeau's idiocy being swallowed whole and willingly by your compatriots....  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:50:20 AM by Florestan »
"I compose music because I must give utterance to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts." --- Sergei Rachmaninoff

Offline Ken B

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #212 on: July 16, 2018, 01:47:04 PM »
Bottom line it's just a game we Yurpeans criticize freely and willingly --- way better than Justin Bieber Trudeau's idiocy being swallowed whole and willingly by your compatriots....  ;D ;D ;D
Oh, I’ll take curling over Trudeau too!
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #213 on: July 16, 2018, 03:23:55 PM »
What was more frustrating was watching Australia squander any chance of progressing at Denmark's expense.

I understand this - of course.
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