Author Topic: Syria!  (Read 884 times)

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Offline amw

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 04:19:37 PM »
And US currently bombing Damascus, apparently. With British and French assistance. I guess the people responsible for the Middle East being such a mess in the first place wanted in on the action.

Offline Todd

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2018, 04:23:46 PM »
I guess the people responsible for the Middle East being such a mess in the first place wanted in on the action.


What are the Turks doing?
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Offline amw

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2018, 04:56:27 PM »
Turkish airbases near Adana (İncirlik, home of the USAF 39th something-or-other) are where the strikes are being launched from, according to unconfirmed reports.

And ISIS is attacking Syrian government-held positions in south Damascus apparently, so that accounts for the Saudis >_>
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:02:18 PM by amw »

Offline Turner

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2018, 08:56:10 PM »
"France’s defense minister says its joint military operation with the U.S. and Britain against Syria targeted three sites and that Russia was informed ahead of time."

https://apnews.com/ac97b58d1ba64f05ad34fcc254c3f28f?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Offline Todd

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2018, 04:38:54 AM »
Quote from: Jens Stoltenberg
I support the actions taken by the United States, the United Kingdom and France against the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons facilities and capabilities. This will reduce the regime’s ability to further attack the people of Syria with chemical weapons.

NATO has consistently condemned Syria's continued use of chemical weapons as a clear breach of international norms and agreements. The use of chemical weapons is unacceptable, and those responsible must be held accountable.

NATO considers the use of chemical weapons as a threat to international peace and security, and believes that it is essential to protect the Chemical Weapons Convention. This calls for a collective and effective response by the international community.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Todd

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2018, 05:52:06 AM »

Trudeau states support for U.S.-led strikes in Syria


Germany's Merkel backs air strikes on Syria as 'necessary and appropriate'

Japan voices support for U.S.-led strikes against Syria

Saudi Arabia expresses support for US-led strikes on Syria


Donny got one right, I guess.  Oh, wait . . .


Democrats blast Trump for not seeking congressional approval for Syria strikes

How very cute of Dems.  They forgot about Libya already.  It's almost like Dems are simply being their knee-jerk, partisan selves.  Who knows, maybe this time Congress will get tough and do something, and if not now, then certainly in 2019 after the much vaunted Blue Wave hits.  I mean, look at how effective the War Powers Resolution has been.  Apparently, Dems forgot that a Dem controlled Congress passed that gem decades ago and that Congress has failed to enforce it ever since.

And for anyone who has forgotten, or never knew - and Dems, even on this very forum, have demonstrated worryingly short memories and/or a lack of basic knowledge of the consistently bellicose nature of American foreign policy since 1789 - here's a refresher from a liberal interventionist rag from just a few short years ago: Actually, U.S. presidents have been going to war without Congress since the beginning.


The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Turner

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2018, 08:31:58 AM »
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 10:19:54 PM by Turner »

Offline knight66

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2018, 08:46:04 AM »
About a year after the start of the Syrian civil war, I heard an academic who had studied many civil wars in the 20th Cent. He listed factors which he maintained caused ‘normal’ civil wars to take seven years to resolve, but felt this one would take 10 years. Since then it has become more complex.

I was in Syria about six months before the protests started. I was told that, “Things were happening under the table.” I was booked to go back to Syria the day our Foreign Office ordered all UK citizens out. Prior to that I had been asked to tell the Embassy my blood group, eye colour and about any distinguishing marks. The protests had been peaceful, but clearly the watchers could tell that things were coming to the boil.

The problem of removing Assad has alway’s been the Western alliance’s inability to engage with any faction that could lead an alternative government. It had been present embryonically, but the West left it too late to effectively help birth it. So, remove Assad and things become much more anarchic.

I have never really understood the red line on killing citizens with nerve gas: but barrel bombs, torture, burning out, bombing schools and hospitals and incurring starvation is tacitly accepted. Those people are just as dead either way. I don’t see a satisfactory way out of it. We may not like it, but Assad has almost waded across his river of blood and to get him across quickly may be the best way to save lives. They always have run a repressive regime, that will continue. We can’t always solve problems by intervention.

Nevertheless, I am fine with his nerve agent factories being bombed. Not really a logical train of thought.

Mike
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2018, 12:15:14 AM »
I very much agree with your analysis Mike, although events in Salisbury were also included in Theresa May's broadcast justifying UK involvement. Tomorrow in Parliament could be interesting.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline knight66

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2018, 06:56:58 AM »
I very much agree with your analysis Mike, although events in Salisbury were also included in Theresa May's broadcast justifying UK involvement. Tomorrow in Parliament could be interesting.

I find it odd that Russia uses a nerve agent in the UK, so the UK throws some Russians out: but  that Syria uses nerve agents on its own people and we bomb it partly because Russia used it in the UK. The logic escapes me. I know there are strong connections between Russia and Syria, but I think we should be separating out why we bomb Syria, not due to Russia’s action in the UK, but because no government should be using the material at all, and certainly not on its own civilians.

Of course, careful notice was given to Russia, so its military and Assad’s assets could be removed as far as possible away from likely targets along the relevant air corridors. It is a high stakes game of violent chess with the rules remaining intact.

Mike
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I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Offline Bubbles

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Re: Syria!
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2018, 12:13:57 PM »
The recent strike on Syria was pretty darn meaningless. It's almost eerie how little damage was done by so much fire-power. 

A billion dollars spent to inflict less than a million dollars worth of damage?

Seems much more of a PR move than a military move.  So Trump can boast about enforcing red lines in the sand without actually doing anything to anger his BFF Putin.

Not quite sure why UK and France participated, except maybe in an effort to stay in the game, and as a chance to test some new weapons systems.

Here's is a pretty good article about the strike:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/what-the-latest-strike-on-syria-succeeded-at-and-what-it-didnt/

The linked article is also very interesting:
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5232786,00.html

Quote
The fact there were no reports of chemicals leaking following the strikes only serves to bolster assessments that the major stockpiles haven't been hit.
 
In addition, the Syrian Air Force only suffered a minor hit, and so the Syrian ability to drop these chemical weapons on their targets has hardly been compromised.
 
The bottom line, the officials said, is that "only a partial damage was caused to the chemical weapons stockpiles and launch capabilities."
 
In addition, Israeli intelligence officials believe "Assad has not been deterred from using chemical weapons again" due to Trump's declaration that American forces would leave Syria soon and comments from other American officials that there were no future attacks planned.
 
"If you want to shoot—shoot, don't talk," quoted a diplomatic source. "In the American case, this is mostly talk. They themselves show actions are not going to follow," he criticized.

Still not quite sure what I think about it all.  In some ways it feels like a con job.

Maybe the Russians are starting to leverage their kompromat on indiscrete Donny-boy?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 09:18:34 PM by The Fish Knows... »
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