Author Topic: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.  (Read 251 times)

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Offline schnittkease

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Would you call these guys 'master orchestrators'? Can 100s of dances for orchestra make one a contender for this title?

Offline Brian

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2018, 06:51:12 PM »
Would you call these guys 'master orchestrators'? Can 100s of dances for orchestra make one a contender for this title?
I don't know about master orchestrators - so much piccolo - but Johann Jr. and Josef were definitely accomplished orchestrators capable of neat surprises. Something like Kaiserwalzer is genuinely affecting thanks to the color of the sound. All of them were able to get what they wanted from the orchestra. I would happily agree if you called Johann Jr and Josef master melodists, or master craftsmen.

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2018, 06:54:27 PM »
Would you call these guys 'master orchestrators'?
Absolutely. Not sure why you even ask the question.....
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Offline schnittkease

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2018, 08:56:41 PM »
Not sure why you even ask the question.....

I've been on a Strauss high recently, and was pleasantly surprised by their dances' consistent quality (especially those of Strauss II). In general, I had thought of light music as inferior and lacking substance when compared with more serious forms. I was wrong... at least for the most part. (Then I suppose I turned to GMG to rid myself of that last shred of doubt.)

Anyways, feel free to hit me with recommendations. I have only the Boskovsky/VPO "Strauss: Waltzes" CD.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 03:13:46 AM »
I don't know about master orchestrators - so much piccolo - but Johann Jr. and Josef were definitely accomplished orchestrators capable of neat surprises. Something like Kaiserwalzer is genuinely affecting thanks to the color of the sound. All of them were able to get what they wanted from the orchestra. I would happily agree if you called Johann Jr and Josef master melodists, or master craftsmen.

Well put but I'd substitute *and* for *or*.

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feel free to hit me with recommendations.

Naxos (actually Marco Polo) has recorded the complete (sic!) works of Johann Strauss I, Johann Strauss II and Josef Strauss but afaIk only the Strauss II CDs have been boxed.

There is also a 25-CD series of Carl Michael Ziehrer's works on Preiser Records.

Admittedly, the above is probably for light music buffs only. (I have them all...) :)

For Waldteufel, otomh this is excellent:



I have some more but in another location, I'll come back with them in a few days.

Josef Lanner was both the rival and friend of Johann Strauss I. Otomh this is excellent too:



Ditto.

(As an aside, Willi Boskowsky was not only a Viennese Waltz specialist: he also recorded Mozart's Piano Trios and... Beethoven's Violin Sonatas, in both cases partnered by Lili Kraus. Give them a try too.)



« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 03:16:15 AM by Florestan »
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Brian

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 03:22:00 AM »
I have listened to 3 or 4 CDs from the newish "Robert Stolz Conducts..." Box from Sony, where everything is arranged chronologically. Aside from when this sometimes means 5 polkas in a row, it's an excellent box - Stolz was an operetta composer himself so he knew the genre perfectly. Listening to a half-hour block at a time, I am always amazed at how endless the stream of invention is. There are less good pieces, but there are no bad ones.

(Although, confession. I don't much like Johann Sr.)

The best Strauss New Year's concert albums are the two conducted by Carlos Kleiber - absolutely essential.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 03:36:35 AM »
I don't much like Johann Sr.

Otoh, I think he's undeservedly overshadowed by Johann Jr.  :D

He has many real gems, problem is they are not his most performed and recorded stuff. The Naxos series has been a real eye-opener (or is it ear-opener?) for me in this respect
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 03:41:30 AM »
I've been on a Strauss high recently, and was pleasantly surprised by their dances' consistent quality (especially those of Strauss II). In general, I had thought of light music as inferior and lacking substance when compared with more serious forms. I was wrong... at least for the most part. (Then I suppose I turned to GMG to rid myself of that last shred of doubt.)

Anyways, feel free to hit me with recommendations. I have only the Boskovsky/VPO "Strauss: Waltzes" CD.
Ah. Well my favorite is a box of Viennese delights:


This is all the concerts collected into one box, with duplicates removed. Outstanding box in every respect!! These are consistently exciting and ooze with the requisite style. It has more than just the Strauss family, but they are easily the majority of the tracks.  There is applause.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 03:48:20 AM »
Otoh, I think he's undeservedly overshadowed by Johann Jr.  :D

He has many real gems, problem is they are not his most performed and recorded stuff. The Naxos series has been a real eye-opener (or is it ear-opener?) for me in this respect
I will give his less famous stuff a listen working through the Stolz box! It also has some work from the later generations - Lehar, Juventino Rosas, Fucik, and Stolz himself - though not the super underrated Richard Eilenberg.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 03:51:09 AM »
Juventino Rosas

Speaking of whom: though not orchestral, these are mandatory:




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the super underrated Richard Eilenberg.

Who?  :laugh:
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 04:05:36 AM »
This guy:

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Offline Brian

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 04:12:43 AM »
I wrote a 2013 MusicWeb essay about that one which, happily, appears to still reflect my opinion and is still a modestly good read.

Offline schnittkease

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Re: Regarding Johann Strauss II, Émile Waldteufel, Julius Fučík, etc.
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2018, 08:23:31 AM »
Thanks for all the recommendations. I'll probably end up purchasing the New Year's Concert box set for now, as it contains the more popular repertoire which I should attend to first. I also want the Waldteufel, but it seems it will be hard to get ahold of.