Author Topic: Islam has failed  (Read 725 times)

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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2018, 05:28:06 AM »
On third thoughts I guess that if she is truly happy and fulfilled with her life that is the most important thing.

As with smoking, we have been presented with mucho lies having to do with sexuality, like the Happy Hooker and Never on Sunday. The truth is more like the 2nd act of Traviata when the father tells Violetta that her looks are not going to last forever. I don't think most of you guys would like to marry a woman who has been passed around a lot or her body has been oogled at for a profession.  It will be a sad day when she comes to the realization herself.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2018, 06:04:12 AM »
As with smoking, we have been presented with mucho lies having to do with sexuality, like the Happy Hooker and Never on Sunday. The truth is more like the 2nd act of Traviata when the father tells Violetta that her looks are not going to last forever. I don't think most of you guys would like to marry a woman who has been passed around a lot or her body has been oogled at for a profession.  It will be a sad day when she comes to the realization herself.

     I don't think any of the poor justifications made by people who take the stereotypical sides hold up all that well.

     I said I thought Yasmeena Ali used a poor justification for her choice and I thought that would be the point to discuss. While I recognize and contributed to how the choice would be poor in itself this is so widely agreed to outside the present context as to be uninteresting.

     I'm a little irked that the bad choice itself gets smuggled back into a discussion I thought was about the soundness of her justification for it.

     
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Offline Ken B

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2018, 06:21:13 AM »
     I don't think any of the poor justifications made by people who take the stereotypical sides hold up all that well.

     I said I thought Yasmeena Ali used a poor justification for her choice and I thought that would be the point to discuss. While I recognize and contributed to how the choice would be poor in itself this is so widely agreed to outside the present context as to be uninteresting.

     I'm a little irked that the bad choice itself gets smuggled back into a discussion I thought was about the soundness of her justification for it.

   

What makes you think she was justifying her course to you? 

I won’t even ask why you think she has to.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2018, 06:27:55 AM »
     I don't see what "truly happy" beliefs or "truly bad" actions have to do with my argument, which is about whether an action that might be judged harmful can't be judged at all if it's deemed free, as people here are trying to assume while at the same time critiquing my argument an principles they think they are denying.

     I freely make an argument, and freely made it's beyond criticism because if you criticize it freedom is undermined. If so, what's the point of freedom?

As far as I can see you haven't made ANY argument about why you've judged an action harmful.  You've just gone ahead and done it. For me to criticize your argument I'd have to have some notion that you had one rather than a bald assertion. It's in fact the LACK of an argument that I have the most problem with.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 06:34:46 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2018, 06:31:41 AM »
I don't think most of you guys would like to marry a woman who has been passed around a lot or her body has been oogled at for a profession.

Yes, because men like to buy new instead of second-hand.  ::)

Women are people. Not objects that get "passed around a lot". You wouldn't describe a man who had sex with lots of women as being "passed around a lot".
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Offline Ken B

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2018, 06:33:32 AM »
12 Years A Slave by Solomon Northup

An escaped slave justifies his course. Really not much in the way of an argument, he just claims to so much happier free.

OOPS, thought this was the Reading Now thread.
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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2018, 06:47:57 AM »
Yes, because men like to buy new instead of second-hand.  ::)
Women are people. Not objects that get "passed around a lot". You wouldn't describe a man who had sex with lots of women as being "passed around a lot".

Guess what? There are irreducible differences between the sexes, no matter what political correctness would like us to believe. I know this because of what my adult sons say, like what they suddenly blurt out with. It is not as though they were brought up conservatively. They had ample freedom to choose what they wanted to do or think. I still try not to interefere. Their thinking or perception about certain things is different from mine because they are men. Full stop.
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Offline NikF

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2018, 07:02:25 AM »
I prefer my women to arrive vacuum packed and hermetically sealed with a legible 'Best Used Before' date. And while I'm fussy about the aesthetic of the packaging, allowances will be made if they're OEM.

As for women being ogled at for their looks, I've had relationships with and dated models, dancers and actresses, and all of them have benefitted from their appearance via men (or women) looking at them and feeling pleasure. Isn't nature wonderful?
"You overestimate my power of attraction," he told her. "No, I don't," she replied sharply, "and neither do you".

Offline San Antone

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2018, 07:07:55 AM »
     I don't think any of the poor justifications made by people who take the stereotypical sides hold up all that well.

     I said I thought Yasmeena Ali used a poor justification for her choice and I thought that would be the point to discuss. While I recognize and contributed to how the choice would be poor in itself this is so widely agreed to outside the present context as to be uninteresting.

     I'm a little irked that the bad choice itself gets smuggled back into a discussion I thought was about the soundness of her justification for it.

   

Are you now or have you ever been a porn star?  If not then everything you know about that lifestyle is hearsay, and not definitive. 

I think it ought to be obvious that she is happy with her choice, to the point of questioning it to be uninteresting.

Offline Ken B

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2018, 07:15:06 AM »
I prefer my women to arrive vacuum packed and hermetically sealed with a legible 'Best Used Before' date. And while I'm fussy about the aesthetic of the packaging, allowances will be made if they're OEM.

As for women being ogled at for their looks, I've had relationships with and dated models, dancers and actresses, and all of them have benefitted from their appearance via men (or women) looking at them and feeling pleasure. Isn't nature wonderful?

30 years ago Christie Brinkley was begging me for it, begging, but I told her the ogling bothered me and she slunk off in shame.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline NikF

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2018, 07:21:00 AM »
30 years ago Christie Brinkley was begging me for it, begging, but I told her the ogling bothered me and she slunk off in shame.

 ;D

'Uptown Girl'? - yeah, right... >:(
"You overestimate my power of attraction," he told her. "No, I don't," she replied sharply, "and neither do you".

Offline drogulus

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2018, 09:38:21 AM »
What makes you think she was justifying her course to you? 

I won’t even ask why you think she has to.

     I don't know who she had in mind. My concern is with kinds of arguments and reasons for making them.

As far as I can see you haven't made ANY argument about why you've judged an action harmful. 

     We weren't talking about that so I didn't feel like bringing it up. We could have a thread about substantive determinations of right and wrong and how it applies the way we use it in daily life. Mostly people would agree on basics, me too of course. Then people think they should get on a high horse and say their own determinations of right or wrong aren't grounded because something about democracy. Why the reversal? How can you know something in real life and undercut it in a debate?
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Offline bwv 1080

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2018, 09:48:49 AM »
This is stupid, the whole point is that she has the right to make choices, good or bad, something denied to her in traditional Islam

what would happen to an average woman in a Muslim country if it became publicly known that she became a porn star?
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum

Offline drogulus

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018, 10:00:23 AM »

    To be clear, I think it's more than justified that people make vigorous and even harsh judgements about the views I express, without prejudice to whether they are any good or not. It helps me make my point.

     
This is stupid, the whole point is that she has the right to make choices, good or bad, something denied to her in traditional Islam

what would happen to an average woman in a Muslim country if it became publicly known that she became a porn star?

    That's another good subject. We should fight for justice (see how judgmental I am!) without resort to stupid arguments about where we get ideas of right and wrong, even though we all know it's not a question put in doubt by a freedom concept. It won't stop you or me, so let's not pretend it does.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2018, 10:09:18 AM »
    While we are disabling our own standards of right or wrong shouldn't we at least pause long enough to consider what will be left to fight for the rights of Muslim women, including the freedom to be a porn star, if we knock out our own judgments?

     There are powerful judgments that need to be protected. I recommend doing that.
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Offline NikF

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2018, 11:28:37 AM »
Check her credentials?! Hell, I'd allahu her akbar!  8)
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2018, 12:49:44 PM »

"this is Christianity in a nutshell"

     

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2018, 01:54:20 PM »
Guess what? There are irreducible differences between the sexes, no matter what political correctness would like us to believe. I know this because of what my adult sons say, like what they suddenly blurt out with. It is not as though they were brought up conservatively. They had ample freedom to choose what they wanted to do or think. I still try not to interefere. Their thinking or perception about certain things is different from mine because they are men. Full stop.

Guess what?

This doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the topic, unless you believe that women can’t enjoy being porn stars but men can.

Also, I’m gay which much just blow your conception of the world to smithereens.
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Offline NikF

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2018, 08:23:26 PM »
Check her credentials?! Hell, I'd open her sesame!  8)
"You overestimate my power of attraction," he told her. "No, I don't," she replied sharply, "and neither do you".

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Islam has failed
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2018, 08:33:00 PM »
Guess what?
This doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the topic, unless you believe that women can’t enjoy being porn stars but men can.
Also, I’m gay which much just blow your conception of the world to smithereens.

Sure, it's a great life parading around in one's birthday suits.
Air-conditioning should be a requirement with all that sweating, not to mention loads of perfume.
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