Author Topic: George Bush Snr  (Read 1095 times)

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Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2018, 02:30:18 PM »
Imho, this does not exonerate him in the least. Ideas have consequences. Nietzsche learned it the hard way, albeit just as posthumously as Marx.

I'm not aware of bad consequences that Nietzsche's actual ideas had.  The fact that the Nazi's became infatuated with a distorted version of his views pedaled by his sister after his collapse and death is not his fault.

Offline Ken B

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2018, 04:26:23 PM »
Communist apologists are the equal of nazi apologists. Sad but not surprising to see one here.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2018, 04:27:59 PM »
And who would that be?

Offline Ken B

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2018, 04:31:40 PM »
And who would that be?
Not you.
At least nazi apologists never say "real nazism has never been tried."
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline amw

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2018, 04:48:01 PM »
Communism is good (and continues to be the only hope for human survival in the face of capitalist environmental destruction). George H. W. Bush was bad (and should have been convicted of war crimes). For more hot takes, please subscribe to my newsletter.

Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2018, 04:51:29 PM »
Communism is good (and continues to be the only hope for human survival in the face of capitalist environmental destruction).

Because it will return human civilization to the stone age?   :laugh:

I shouldn't make fun, I agree, sort of.

Offline amw

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2018, 09:09:36 PM »
Because it will return human civilization to the stone age?   :laugh:

I shouldn't make fun, I agree, sort of.
It's ok I'm used to it >_>

I tend to make fun of my own views a lot, shitpost about Stalin etc, but in all seriousness—although I've been very critical of the Chinese Communist Party in a lot of respects, I've felt significantly more encouraged by initiatives from the Communist Party of Cuba addressing climate change, environmental degradation & public health; the ongoing attempts in Venezuela, Bolivia & Ecuador to move away from fossil fuels; the growth of indigenous socialist-oriented collectives and mutual aid groups in non-socialist countries eg the Zapatistas in Mexico; the growth of Native American political consciousness following the Standing Rock and Keystone XL protests; the Ecosocialist International drawing links between indigenous peoples & climate activists throughout the Americas and so on. And historically obviously we have the anti-desertification efforts of Thomas Sankara which has now led to a coalition of African countries working to protect the Sahel. I wouldn't necessarily qualify the PRC's "great green wall" efforts or India's mass tree planting efforts because those are neither environmentally conscious (monocultures of particular trees can do more harm than good) nor offset the severe environmental damage both countries are causing in the interests of capital. And Western countries & the Middle East (and white Americans, Canadians, Australians etc) are simply too invested in fossil fuels, technology and consumption to ever divest at this point, imo, until some kind of economic catastrophe actually makes those things unattainable/unprofitable. Historically I would have to include the USSR in this as well.

Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2018, 10:55:21 PM »
It's ok I'm used to it >_>

I tend to make fun of my own views a lot, shitpost about Stalin etc, but in all seriousness—although I've been very critical of the Chinese Communist Party in a lot of respects, I've felt significantly more encouraged by initiatives from the Communist Party of Cuba addressing climate change, environmental degradation & public health; the ongoing attempts in Venezuela, Bolivia & Ecuador to move away from fossil fuels; the growth of indigenous socialist-oriented collectives and mutual aid groups in non-socialist countries eg the Zapatistas in Mexico; the growth of Native American political consciousness following the Standing Rock and Keystone XL protests; the Ecosocialist International drawing links between indigenous peoples & climate activists throughout the Americas and so on. And historically obviously we have the anti-desertification efforts of Thomas Sankara which has now led to a coalition of African countries working to protect the Sahel. I wouldn't necessarily qualify the PRC's "great green wall" efforts or India's mass tree planting efforts because those are neither environmentally conscious (monocultures of particular trees can do more harm than good) nor offset the severe environmental damage both countries are causing in the interests of capital. And Western countries & the Middle East (and white Americans, Canadians, Australians etc) are simply too invested in fossil fuels, technology and consumption to ever divest at this point, imo, until some kind of economic catastrophe actually makes those things unattainable/unprofitable. Historically I would have to include the USSR in this as well.

Venezuela? Petroleum is the main bastion of their economy, and their utter incompetence in extracting it has led to one of the great humanitarian crises of the world. That's not my definition of "moving away from fossil fuels."  ??? They would be perfectly happy to stay with fossil fuels if they could get a drill rig running.

This is an interesting listen:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/06/19/621570477/the-measure-of-a-tragedy


Offline amw

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2018, 12:29:15 AM »
Oh I definitely agree that the past ~40 years of Venezuela's energy and climate policies have been absolutely awful. However they've recently (iirc) reached a point where the majority of the country's electricity is produced via renewables, with almost all crude and natural gas going for export, & there has apparently been an active move to increase the portion of revenues gained from selling electricity to neighbouring countries and decrease the relative portion gained from oil & gas exports. Hearing about this was the first thing that suggested maybe Chavismo wouldn't turn out to be a total garbage fire. I have no idea what the latest developments are though because it's almost impossible to get any accurate information about Venezuela from international & Western news outlets.

Offline Florestan

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2018, 12:54:08 AM »
Communism is good (and continues to be the only hope for human survival in the face of capitalist environmental destruction).

There are three attributes in this world that a person cannot feature simultaneously, because featureing any two of them is mutually exclusive with featuring the third. They are: intelligent, honest and communist.
When I was a child, happiness was simple. Now that I've grown up, simplicity is happiness. - Anonymous

Offline vandermolen

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2018, 06:29:15 AM »
I was interested to hear, from his son at the funeral, that George Bush Snr didn't like broccoli.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline relm1

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2018, 07:27:17 AM »
I was interested to hear, from his son at the funeral, that George Bush Snr didn't like broccoli.

And he had a steak and grey goose vodka secretly delivered to him just a few months ago by his friend and Secretary of State, James Baker.  My kind of bloke.

Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2018, 07:30:38 AM »
Oh I definitely agree that the past ~40 years of Venezuela's energy and climate policies have been absolutely awful. However they've recently (iirc) reached a point where the majority of the country's electricity is produced via renewables, with almost all crude and natural gas going for export, & there has apparently been an active move to increase the portion of revenues gained from selling electricity to neighbouring countries and decrease the relative portion gained from oil & gas exports. Hearing about this was the first thing that suggested maybe Chavismo wouldn't turn out to be a total garbage fire. I have no idea what the latest developments are though because it's almost impossible to get any accurate information about Venezuela from international & Western news outlets.

Maybe what you read in international news outlet is actually true! 25,000% inflation.

I suggest you listen to the podcast I linked above. It features a Venezuelan economist working at Harvard who decided that conventional economic statistics don't capture what is happening in Venezuela and who has formulated different statistical criteria to describe the current state of the economy.

Offline JBS

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 08:13:03 AM »
I was interested to hear, from his son at the funeral, that George Bush Snr didn't like broccoli.

His aversion to broccoli was well known
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/23/us/i-m-president-so-no-more-broccoli.html


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Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2018, 08:13:56 AM »
Interesting analysis. In retrospect the failure to support the Shiite forces against Hussein led to disastrous consequences.

I don't want to jump into the lions' den again, speaking of politics, but Herbert Walker Bush was about the only adult who at the time didn't remember where he was when John Kennedy was shot. There is credible evidence that he was indeed in Dallas. The Bay of Pigs debacle in 1961 executed by the CIA which had a bad habit of messing around in Latino affairs, was named "Zapata", curiously the name of HW Bush's oil company. 

The Bush family itself is deeply corrupt, having been involved in war profiteering in WWI by Prescott Bush and illegal banking to the Nazi's by Samuel Prescott Bush, George's father that was stopped by Congress in 1943.  Haliburton made billions from the disastrous Iraq invasion. I don't see how HW Bush could have escaped the misdeeds of his family. In fact, they were from Prescott Bush, members of the Skull and Bones Society in Yale that curiously furnished most of the movers and shakers over the past century.

This following is only a sampling of what is freely available about the Bush family on the web.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bush-familys-links-to-nazi-germany-a-famous-american-family-made-its-fortune-from-the-nazis/5512243

Someone mentioned that the US is governed by an oligarchy. Actually, given the above and several others, this is not far from the truth.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline relm1

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2018, 08:24:00 AM »
I don't want to jump into the lions' den again, speaking of politics, but Herbert Walker Bush was about the only adult who at the time didn't remember where he was when John Kennedy was shot. There is credible evidence that he was indeed in Dallas. The Bay of Pigs debacle in 1961 executed by the CIA which had a bad habit of messing around in Latino affairs, was named "Zapata", curiously the name of HW Bush's oil company. 

The Bush family itself is deeply corrupt, having been involved in war profiteering in WWI by Prescott Bush and illegal banking to the Nazi's by Samuel Prescott Bush, George's father that was stopped by Congress in 1943.  Haliburton made billions from the disastrous Iraq invasion. I don't see how HW Bush could have escaped the misdeeds of his family. In fact, they were from Prescott Bush, members of the Skull and Bones Society in Yale that curiously furnished most of the movers and shakers over the past century.

This following is only a sampling of what is freely available about the Bush family on the web.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bush-familys-links-to-nazi-germany-a-famous-american-family-made-its-fortune-from-the-nazis/5512243

Someone mentioned that the US is governed by an oligarchy. Actually, given the above and several others, this is not far from the truth.

One could argue the root of the mid east problems is WW1 as the Ottoman empire was distributed to England and France interests ignoring cultural/ethnic fractures in the region.

Offline Florestan

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2018, 08:41:06 AM »
One could argue the root of the mid east problems is WW1 as the Ottoman empire was distributed to England and France interests ignoring cultural/ethnic fractures in the region.

Actually, those cultural/ethnic fractures had far deeper roots in history. The Ottoman Empire used its iron fist to brush them under the carpet and keep them there. After its fall the outcome was inevitable, short of another single powerful state to keep the status quo, which given the circumstances was an obvious impossibility. A situation not dissimilar to the break up of Yugoslavia, a country where deep and big fractures had been brushed under the carpet by Tito's iron hand, something which could no more be accomplished by his ineffectual successors.
When I was a child, happiness was simple. Now that I've grown up, simplicity is happiness. - Anonymous

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 09:02:26 AM »
One could argue the root of the mid east problems is WW1 as the Ottoman empire was distributed to England and France interests ignoring cultural/ethnic fractures in the region.

England profited by the crumbling of the Ottoman Empire. a treeful of plums fell into its lap. The French didn't do much to get Syria and Lebanon. TE Lawrence organized a ragtag army to hound the Turks from the East and South. The problem with the Sykes-Picot agreement was drawing lines in the sand when indeed they should have been according to tribes, the same mess they made in Africa.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline vandermolen

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2018, 09:19:07 AM »
And he had a steak and grey goose vodka secretly delivered to him just a few months ago by his friend and Secretary of State, James Baker.  My kind of bloke.
Mine too!
 ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: George Bush Snr
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2018, 09:22:11 AM »
England profited by the crumbling of the Ottoman Empire. a treeful of plums fell into its lap. The French didn't do much to get Syria and Lebanon. TE Lawrence organized a ragtag army to hound the Turks from the East and South. The problem with the Sykes-Picot agreement was drawing lines in the sand when indeed they should have been according to tribes, the same mess they made in Africa.

Yes, I don't disagree. The 'mandates'' were another form of colonialism.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

 

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