Author Topic: Bruckner's Abbey  (Read 299012 times)

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Offline quintett op.57

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 02:16:48 PM »
Speak for yourself. My wife loves Bruckner. One of our first dates was Bruckner 7th with Chailly/Concertgebouw.  :D
My wife has enjoyed Bruckner for years.
Mrs. Rock enjoys Bruckner.

Does it mean my lady will start enjoying Bruckner as much as Chopin or Brahms as soon as I marry her?

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 05:02:49 PM »
My wife heard the Toledo Symphony play Bruckner's Seventh and Fourth Symphonies in the cathedral and did not run to a divorce lawyer: she enjoyed it, although she really would have preferred James Taylor in Concert.   :o
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

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Drasko

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2007, 05:41:56 AM »


Symphony No.9, Münchner Philharmoniker, April 1938 HMV (Preiser)

Flowing, swift (very swift in Scherzo) but I don't find it rushed. Unsentimental but not cold, nonhistrionic but neither reticent, structuraly coherent reading with achieved formidable orchestral clarity for the time. Münchner Philharmoniker of '38 doesn't need cutting any slack. Sound decent for 1938, lacking the lowest of lows and having limited dynamic range but nicely detailed and with enough presence.
I quite like it (it has high hummability factor*) but probably not to everybodys taste (most?).

This is I believe the only existing Hausegger recording, of anything, pity.

* I like to sing along with Bruckner, not that I can.

Offline Que

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2007, 07:19:08 AM »
Symphony No.9, Münchner Philharmoniker, April 1938 HMV (Preiser)

Flowing, swift (very swift in Scherzo) but I don't find it rushed. Unsentimental but not cold, nonhistrionic but neither reticent, structuraly coherent reading with achieved formidable orchestral clarity for the time. Münchner Philharmoniker of '38 doesn't need cutting any slack. Sound decent for 1938, lacking the lowest of lows and having limited dynamic range but nicely detailed and with enough presence.
I quite like it (it has high hummability factor*) but probably not to everybodys taste (most?).

This is I believe the only existing Hausegger recording, of anything, pity.

* I like to sing along with Bruckner, not that I can.

Hausegger's style sounds similar to Weingartner's.
Sounds like this might be something for me. :)

Q
À chacun son goût.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2007, 04:25:42 PM »
Excellent description! I know it's not supposed to be, but when comparing Hausegger and Kabasta's ninths, I feel there's a similarity between the conductor's picture and the character of his performance !

Drasko

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2007, 07:39:22 AM »


Speaking of the individuality of Bruckner’s work, Sir Simon said, “When I went on safari to Africa for the first time, flying in little planes over enormous valleys full of zebra and wildebeest, the only music that ever came to mind was Bruckner’s".

Offline MishaK

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2007, 08:01:56 AM »


Speaking of the individuality of Bruckner’s work, Sir Simon said, “When I went on safari to Africa for the first time, flying in little planes over enormous valleys full of zebra and wildebeest, the only music that ever came to mind was Bruckner’s".

Has anyone heard this? I heard Rattle do Bruckner 9 live with the BPO and it was one of the worst Bruckner performances I have heard. Totally incoherent and uncharacteristically sketchy playing from the BPO.

karlhenning

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2007, 08:04:50 AM »
This is off-topic for Bruckner, and a dubious tangent at best on the Abbey . . . but yesterday I watched a little of an old Jackie Chan movie, something like 36 Crazy Fists . . . the dubbed voices (and dialogue as rendered in English) got in the way, and pretty much stayed there, so that at the last I couldn't bear to watch any more.

But it is the first occasion I have ever had to hear the line, "The abbott is an old fart."

Offline jwinter

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2007, 08:40:05 AM »
His Proms 7th was another turkey.  Fortunately God whipped up a thunderstorm that killed the power here at the start of the Scherzo, sparing me further suffering (I was listening to the radio hookup.).

Wow, I may have to rethink that whole agnosticism thing.  ;D

Great to see you back, btw!  :)

I haven't had much time for serious Bruckner listening lately (my 3 year old is not putting up with hour-long sessions on the headphones ;D ).  I finally picked up Giulini's VPO 8 & 9 a while back (excellent, a nice surprise to find something every bit as interesting as everyone says it is), and a friend sent me Schuricht's VPO 8 & 9 also (still digesting that one).  That's about the extent of it for the past couple of months...
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.

-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

Choo Choo

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2007, 09:36:29 AM »
my 3 year old is not putting up with hour-long sessions on the headphones

Well Bill I guess headphones can be claustrophobic at that age - maybe she'd be happier listening through 'speakers?

I do very much approve - obviously - of weaning them onto Bruckner at the earliest possible opportunity.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 09:38:56 AM by Choo Choo »

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2007, 04:15:04 PM »
The next season of the Montreal symphony will include performances of the 2nd by Blomstedt and the 5th by Nagano.

I don't know what to expect. Nagano's 9th of last year was seemingly conducted with an overcooked fettucine. But his Berlin 8th was excellent if you like it on the slow side (download avalable here:http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,2142,9697,00.html .

As for the 2nd, that's a no-brainer: I'll be dead when they program it again, so I'm definitely going. And Blomstedt is a quite good brucknerian.

Offline MishaK

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2007, 06:01:30 PM »
The next season of the Montreal symphony will include performances of the 2nd by Blomstedt and the 5th by Nagano.

That's good to know. I've been meaning to visit a friend in Montreal. Now I know when to time the visit.  ;D

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2007, 04:25:30 AM »
Does it mean my lady will start enjoying Bruckner as much as Chopin or Brahms as soon as I marry her?

No, unfortunately it doesn't mean that. The exact opposite in fact: once you marry her, all your possessions become her possessions, too, and she will instantly trash your Bruckner recordings and never allow you to listen to him again. My sage advice: remain a bachelor, Q....or try to steal one of our wives ;D

Sarge
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 04:27:03 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2007, 11:03:34 AM »
This week's Bruckner fare consisted of :

- Symphony no 5, Stuttgart, Schuricht (1962)
- Symphony no 7, Orchestre métropolitain du Grand Montréal, Yannick Nézet-Séguin (2007).


The Stuttgart 5th is well played and decently recorded (mono), but overall this failed to ignite any fireworks, only occasional sparks. Contrary to his 1963 VPO 5th, Schuricht doesn't have at his disposal an orchestra that lives and feeds on Bruckner as the viennese obviously do. Everything is a bit tame and cautious in comparison, so naturalness of utterance and expressiveness  suffer. The last movement has the exact same timing as the EMI Klemperer. The latter has a sense of purpose and destination, and even a feeling of spontaneity, but this Stuttgart version is all a bit too even. The final coda is suitably grand and spacious, but in terms of raising the roof, Klemperer has it game, set and match. Note that for a reason I cannot begin to understand, the Scherzo is cut  :P(second half of the Trio and first reprise of the Scherzo). Broadcast time limitations maybe?

The Nézet-Séguin 7th is a brand new issue, recorded live in the beautifully spacious and transparent acoustics of St-John the Baptist Church, Montreal. I was mightily surprised by this disc. It is so different from anything I've heard before as to be in a category of its own. The orchestra numbers about 75 players and as I've mentioned they play in a large venue, with a long sound decay (3-4 seconds). It has to be played at a substantially higher level than usual to achieve good sonic impact. Once the volume level has been adjusted, it sounds splendidly natural. What comes across is an extraordinarily luminous, reflective account. Beauty of phrasing seems to be the operative word form first note to last.

What struck me most was the total control exerted by the conductor over the rythms and dynamics. Tempi in the first 2 movements are spacious (22:00 and 25:40). Variations of pulsebetween sections are absolutely seamless. This induces a kind of trance-like, hypnotic feeling, although sometimes it makes one wish for some excitement. Forget about Jochum-like accelerandos as the climax of the Adagio is in sight: the same iron grip on the basic tempo makes that climax blossom instead of erupting with lightning and thunderbolts from the timpani. In a sense it's a bit disappointing, but what comes after is the most magical coda Ive heard on record. Similarly, the big orchestral crescendo-decrescendo that immediately precedes the coda of I is jaw-dropping in its collected intensity and beauty of execution. I mentioned the control over dynamics: this is an unusually undramatic account in terms of sound level: I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Bruckner's markings have been more closely followed here than in most other interpretations. A lot of the time the playing is between pp and mf. The few real climaxes are suitably brilliant and expansive.

The scherzo I found a bit tame, with an overly dreamy trio. The Finale is where Nézet-Séguin changes the perspective by adopting a swift basic tempo. The bold brass pronouncements are superb, and here the conductor's control achieves magic: the ensuing pauses' length exactly match the sound decay of the hall (an effect that was ruined in the Wand-Lübeck 9th, with musical phrases overlapping on the decay of the preceding ones). Things noticeably liven up in the coda, where a rush of adrenalin brings the movement to a triumphant E major close.

This is a live recording, but there's not a peep to be heard from the audience (only the booklet pictures let us know that the church was packed). I found the low winds a bit reticent (scherzo esp.), but there's a wealth of string details that stand like in no other recording I know (esp. violas in I an II). So altogether it doesn't replace my favourites (Blomstedt Dreden, Schuricht The Hague), but it comes right after those. Not bad for a 31 year old conductor and a 3rd tier orchestra.

Offline sound67

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2007, 11:13:11 AM »
This is off-topic for Bruckner

But this one isn't:

Bruckner is a bore. If God had wanted Wagner to write symphonies, he would have let him write symphonies.

Prayers that last in excess of 50 minutes are always boring.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 11:14:52 AM by sound67 »
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

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Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2007, 12:48:05 PM »
But this one isn't:

Bruckner is a bore. If God had wanted Wagner to write symphonies, he would have let him write symphonies.

Prayers that last in excess of 50 minutes are always boring.

Who let the curmudgeon in? No matter, I'll deal with him.

You see 67, the boredom inherent in Bruckner's music doesn't bother us at all. Most of us are disciples of Dunbar, that classic philosopher in Catch-22 who asserted that life could be prolonged if you simply cultivated boredom. The more boring something is, the slower time passes. We've discovered Bruckner is perfect for this. Myself, I frequently listen to Celibidache's Bruckner...my god, boredom made manifest in soundwaves!!! I've done calculations and can state without doubt that I'm going to live roughly twenty times longer than the average western middle-class male who eschews Bruckner. I owe it all to dear Anton...and Celi of course  :)

Sarge
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 12:52:04 PM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2007, 12:57:43 PM »
Who let the curmudgeon in? No matter, I'll deal with him.

You see 67, the boredom inherent in Bruckner's music doesn't bother us at all. Most of us are disciples of Dunbar, that classic philosopher in Catch-22 who asserted that life could be prolonged if you simply cultivated boredom. The more boring something is, the slower time passes. We've discovered Bruckner is perfect for this. Myself, I frequently listen to Celibidache's Bruckner...my god, boredom made manifest in soundwaves!!! I've done calculations and can state without doubt that I'm going to live roughly twenty times longer than the average western middle-class male who eschews Bruckner. I owe it all to dear Anton...and Celi of course  :)

Sarge

Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Offline Israfel the Black

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2007, 08:02:08 PM »
I don't find Celibidache's Bruckner particularly boring at all honestly. In fact, quite the contrary. To each one's own, but I don't assert slow tempo or long symphonies as a flaw or a necessary tedium that one must cope with in order to appreciate the more important aspects of the work. I embrace Bruckner as I embrace the world.

Offline max

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2007, 09:30:57 PM »
But this one isn't:

Prayers that last in excess of 50 minutes are always boring.

...that's close to 2 movements of a Bruckner symphony. Methinks you have underestimated his boredom.
As for me, I find a temporary dose of euthanasia and being resurrected at the Final Coda to be extremely refreshing! After that, you kind of view the world with 'renovated eyes' or ears or both! ;)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 09:46:56 PM by max »

mahlertitan

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2007, 09:47:47 PM »
in general i don't find Bruckner's music boring, he has written some of most beautiful and majestic symphonic passages. However, there are a few symphonies that I don't find nearly as interesting as the "romantic" or the 7th.

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