Author Topic: Bruckner's Abbey  (Read 295597 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7586
  • An American Hero!
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2980 on: September 21, 2017, 08:11:41 AM »
Rough visualization of why I like B9 with the 4th movement. Not for that movement itself but for what it does to the 3rd.



This is meant to illustrate that we end up in a different place after three movements, if we have our horizon fixed on the end of a fourth movement.
In other words, that the emotional context of the third movement is different when we see it as the penultimate, rather than the ultimate movement.
[Sorry for the late answer; didn't see your post there, having been on the bottom of the page]

Voila. Finally!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/09/21/the-subtle-miracle-herbert-blomstedt-and-bambergs-cathedral-tour-of-bruckner/[/url]

Hello Jens!  Many thanks for your very nice essay: the review contains excellent information written in an engaging style!  By chance, I am preparing to write my next little essay on hearing the Bruckner Fifth Symphony for the first time...probably well before you were born!   0:)
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

Offline calyptorhynchus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 627
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2981 on: September 21, 2017, 01:19:38 PM »
The tragedy of Bruckner's 9th is that, as I recall reading, the finale was more or less complete in some sort of short score that Bruckner wasn't happy with.

Offline calyptorhynchus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 627
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2982 on: September 21, 2017, 01:25:26 PM »
Woops, hit reply too soon.

My own feeling after reading about the end of Bruckner's life is that Bruckner had completed a short score of the Finale. He wouldn't have regarded it as complete in that he wouldn't have regarded that phase of any of his previous symphony finales as complete. However I believe that he thought he had solved the problem of how to end the symphony, only he was too sick and tired to carry on and fully score it and definitely didn't have enough argue to argue with his friends, colleagues and assistants about its structure and material which would have been beyond their comprehension. He left the short score for posterity to sort out, which, after various vicissitudes, SPCM have succeeded in doing.

Offline calyptorhynchus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 627
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2983 on: September 21, 2017, 02:47:32 PM »
Energy to argue

 :)

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7586
  • An American Hero!
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2984 on: September 21, 2017, 03:22:16 PM »
Woops, hit reply too soon.

My own feeling after reading about the end of Bruckner's life is that Bruckner had completed a short score of the Finale. He wouldn't have regarded it as complete in that he wouldn't have regarded that phase of any of his previous symphony finales as complete. However I believe that he thought he had solved the problem of how to end the symphony, only he was too sick and tired to carry on and fully score it and definitely didn't have enough energy to argue with his friends, colleagues and assistants about its structure and material which would have been beyond their comprehension. He left the short score for posterity to sort out, which, after various vicissitudes, SPCM have succeeded in doing.

Amen!  0:)   I find their completion of the first version of the Finale quite persuasive, especially in the recording by Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 44434
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, Frescobaldi, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Chopin, Haydn, Henning
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2985 on: September 22, 2017, 07:21:24 AM »
Amen!  0:)   I find their completion of the first version of the Finale quite persuasive, especially in the recording by Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic.

I noted that, and in fact the CD is resting at home.  Must take it for a test drive this weekend.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 941
  • Back. Hello!
    • Surprised by Beauty
  • Currently Listening to:
    anything from Monteverdi to Widmann and well beyond in either direction and everything in the middle!
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2986 on: October 09, 2017, 01:53:40 PM »

A Survey of Bruckner Cycles




http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-survey-of-bruckner-cycles.html


Major, much overdue update to the Bruckner survey.

Quote
[Ed.10/09/17] A massive, much overdue update: SWR Classic has at last issued Hans Rosbaud's near-complete cycle (2-9) in never before achieved sound quality. Kurt Masur's Bruckner has been re-issued. Daniel Barenboim has recorded a third cycle, now, for the first time with "his" orchestra, the Berliner Staatskapelle. I have reviewed the 7th on Forbes: "Classical CD of the Week: Bruckner for DG" and the 4th here on ionarts: "Dip Your Ears, No. 163 (Visual Bruckner)". Jaap van Zweden had his excellent Bruckner cycle issued on Challenge Records on SACDs. The Korean Symphony Orchestra has recorded a cycle for Korean Decca under Hun-Joung Lim. The Riccardo Chailly cycle has been re-issued cheaply on Decca/Eloquence. Mario Venzago finished his controversial cycle on CPO. Brilliant Classic has put all of Heinz Rögner's Bruckner with the RSO Berlin together and made a complete cycle out of it by adding contemporary East German performances of Vaclav Neumann, Kurt Sanderling, and Franz Konwitschny to it. The Bruckner Orchestra Linz' cycle with Dennis-Russell Davies will be re-issued by SOny in December of this year. And Simone Young completed her very complete set ("00" + "0"), which has been released on Oehms. Global Amazon links have been added in all the lines I had to edit. The incomplete cycles of Dohnanyi & Harnoncourt will be added in the next round of edits

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7586
  • An American Hero!
Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #2987 on: November 12, 2017, 06:43:47 PM »
I came across this article about a performance of the original, unrevised Eighth Symphony:

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2017/10/27/philharmonia-to-premiere-original-bruckner/

An excerpt:

Quote
for Levi, the Eighth Symphony was too long, too similar to the Seventh Symphony and too heavy handed in its orchestration of brass instruments.

“I think Levi thought the piece was just too avant-garde,” Hawkshaw said, adding that the rejection of the first edition led Bruckner to revise the piece into the second edition, the version of the piece orchestras has performed since its completion.

Hawkshaw said that some moments of the first edition will be noticeably different for listeners familiar with the second. In particular, Hawkshaw noted differences in the ending of the first movement and the orchestration in the brass. The first edition has its own spontaneity, he added.

Its first movement also ends with what Hawkshaw described as an “upbeat, positive, kind of fanfare coda” expected of a recently successful composer, whereas the second edition’s first movement ends “softly and darkly,” perhaps in response to rejection.

The portion of the symphony that requires the large brass section that Levi critiqued contributes to the dramatic range of sounds and colors Oundjian sees in the original edition of the symphony.

“When he gets the whole orchestra going — and we have a huge brass section the sound is just unbelievable,” Oundjian said. “But then, there will be just two players playing, which makes this a great choice for someone who hasn’t been to orchestra concerts: the variety of expression is just exhilarating.”
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

Buying Music From Amazon?
Please consider using these links. A small percentage of every sale using these links is passed on to GMG and helps keep this forum online.
Amazon US
Amazon Canada
Amazon UK