Author Topic: 2dogs 20C exploration  (Read 343 times)

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Offline 2dogs

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2dogs 20C exploration
« on: August 12, 2019, 06:53:58 AM »
I'm not familiar with most classical music but like a few 20C works and have "A Timeline of 20th-Century Musical Premieres" in the booklet from one of the Decca/DG 20C CDs so think I'll have a look on YouTube and archive.org and find out what they're like, make a list and hopefully discover some I'd like to follow up further.

1900 Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius. Barbirolli 1965. Wow an hour and a half religious opera, daunting but actually it was OK, somewhat unsettling but dramatic and it kept me listening all the way through although adjusting the volume at intervals to avoid being deafened in the loud bits. I could give it a second listen.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 07:20:28 AM »
I'm not familiar with most classical music but like a few 20C works and have "A Timeline of 20th-Century Musical Premieres" in the booklet from one of the Decca/DG 20C CDs so think I'll have a look on YouTube and archive.org and find out what they're like, make a list and hopefully discover some I'd like to follow up further.

1900 Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius. Barbirolli 1965. Wow an hour and a half religious opera, daunting but actually it was OK, somewhat unsettling but dramatic and it kept me listening all the way through although adjusting the volume at intervals to avoid being deafened in the loud bits. I could give it a second listen.

Gerontius is magnificent.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Artem

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 07:26:50 AM »
Cool idea. Will be following this topic with great interest.

Offline Daverz

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 03:53:11 PM »


Technically, 1900 is still the 19th Century.  And in spirit, Gerontius is still definitely the 19th Century.

I would at least jump to something like, say, La Mer.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1mGqLaD_zaU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1mGqLaD_zaU</a>

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 07:59:12 PM »
Yes there are 101 years in the 20C list as the last one is for 2000. I am still hoping they picked the important compositions and will stick with it but will pay special attention to La Mer when I reach it, look for any major differences to the 9 preceding works. Thanks for the YouTube video, I’ll come back to that rather than clicking one at random.

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2019, 06:48:00 AM »
1900 Puccini: Tosca. Arena di Verona 1984.



It didn't click at first but finally the very well filmed production with multiple cameras, following the action and close ups, together with beautiful sets and costumes, made me realise this was a complete audio visual spectacle rather than being just about the music, and I began to enjoy it, appreciating how the performers moved and expressed emotions through their facial expressions while still singing at such a high standard. The music supported the story in a suitably dramatic fashion and the whole thing flowed quite hypnotically through its two hours. I don't think a CD of the music alone would be much good though, it needs to be the full immersive experience.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2019, 08:46:08 AM »
1900 Puccini: Tosca. Arena di Verona 1984.



It didn't click at first but finally the very well filmed production with multiple cameras, following the action and close ups, together with beautiful sets and costumes, made me realise this was a complete audio visual spectacle rather than being just about the music, and I began to enjoy it, appreciating how the performers moved and expressed emotions through their facial expressions while still singing at such a high standard. The music supported the story in a suitably dramatic fashion and the whole thing flowed quite hypnotically through its two hours. I don't think a CD of the music alone would be much good though, it needs to be the full immersive experience.

Good for you. Opera is indeed a stage spectacle. It's a while since I watched Tosca, I should revisit it.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 08:47:00 AM »


Technically, 1900 is still the 19th Century.  And in spirit, Gerontius is still definitely the 19th Century.

I would at least jump to something like, say, La Mer.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1mGqLaD_zaU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1mGqLaD_zaU</a>

Excellent suggestion, and an excellent recording.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline pjme

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 09:26:14 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/G3UGewCinYw" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/G3UGewCinYw</a>

More Debussy!

In an interview (with Claude Rostand) composer Francis Poulenc remembers that at age eight he heard for the first time Debussy's Danse sacrée et danse profane for harp and strings. This music (only a bit longer than 10 minutes!) opened up a whole new world.
For me that magic happened with a (mono?)DGG recording : Nicanor Zabaleta and Ferenc Fricsay.

I think that Anneleen Lenaerts (one of the harpists at the Vienna Phil.) is just as excellent!


Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 11:29:13 AM »
You ought to check out English composer Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson--His symphonies in particular.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 07:37:20 PM »
Thanks for that. I’ll have to go through this thread again for these recommendations once I’ve got to the end of the list.

Offline some guy

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 09:41:16 PM »
You ought to check out English composer Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson--His symphonies in particular.
I wanted to recommend Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm, but Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm was a Baroque composer, so wouldn't qualify.

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2019, 05:10:35 AM »
I wanted to recommend Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm, but Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm was a Baroque composer, so wouldn't qualify.

Surely though someone must have recited this into a tape recorder in the 1950s then cut the tape up, stuck it back together at random, moved it back and forth over the playback head by hand and piped the signal through a load of filters and spring reverbs 8).

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2019, 08:07:57 PM »
1901 Dvorak: Rusalka. Petr Weigl film 1977.

Another opera! I enjoyed this Czech film made around an actual lake, forest and impressive palace, the occasional special effects and the sad fairy tale story. Not understanding a single word of Czech but having found a synopsis of the plot, I was able to concentrate on the atmosphere and feeling of each scene for as long as it lasted, soaking it up, rather than being pulled forward at great speed by the dialogue or action as with a modern non-musical film. I’d watch this again in due course.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2019, 02:49:47 AM »
I used to follow the libretto in translation as it was playing, I know it sounds like hard work but really it isn’t, I never found just reading summaries of the action good enough somehow. I’ve only seen Rusalka once, it never had subtitles, I didn’t enjoy it much.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2019, 07:22:28 AM »
1901 Mahler: Symphony No. 4. Abaddo 2009, Haitink 1992.

I found the Abaddo a bit hard to get into but thought I’d give it another go and tried Haitink. It seemed to flow a lot better and the instruments blended together more, but it may just have been due to increasing familiarity as Abaddo then sounded better. I’m not listening to it all three times though, it became quite pleasant but didn’t conjure up any images or feelings. Why Mahler chose those lyrics about a ludicrous conception of Heaven is a mystery to me - one might almost think he was ridiculing the religion.

Offline some guy

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2019, 09:59:40 AM »
Abbado.

What seems ludicrous to you might not seem ludicrous to anyone else. (The song is a child's vision of Heaven.)

"...didn't conjure up any images or feelings." Good! (I.e., music is magical all on its own--doesn't need any conjuring. ;))

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2019, 02:33:00 PM »
I wanted to recommend Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm, but Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm was a Baroque composer, so wouldn't qualify.

He died tragically as a victim of the world's funniest joke...

Also, I recognize your avatar--from in front of the Centre Pompidou!
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline 2dogs

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2019, 06:49:56 PM »
Also, I recognize your avatar--from in front of the Centre Pompidou!

Cool, I spotted it in part of the Bosch painting on a CD I have.

Offline Artem

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Re: 2dogs 20C exploration
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2019, 10:42:13 PM »
1901 Mahler: Symphony No. 4. Abaddo 2009, Haitink 1992.

I found the Abaddo a bit hard to get into but thought I’d give it another go and tried Haitink. It seemed to flow a lot better and the instruments blended together more, but it may just have been due to increasing familiarity as Abaddo then sounded better. I’m not listening to it all three times though, it became quite pleasant but didn’t conjure up any images or feelings. Why Mahler chose those lyrics about a ludicrous conception of Heaven is a mystery to me - one might almost think he was ridiculing the religion.
One of my favourite Mahler's works. I associate it with the coming of spring and the light. It is very nice. Members of this board recommended me the following recording of it, which I found very enjoyable. The only drawback is a short lecture about the symphony at the end, which i found distracting when the music ends.