Author Topic: EJ Moeran  (Read 27470 times)

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Offline J

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #140 on: June 20, 2018, 07:25:19 AM »
Regarding the Cello sonata, I find it a bit dry. I suppose I need to appreciate it better.

I'll admit to never having understood what commenters mean when they call a given work "dry" or (in this case) "a bit dry".  (BTW, why do reviewers conversely never refer to a piece as "wet" or "moist" or even "fluid", - though sometimes "florid" or "flowing")?  Just what IS the standard antithesis of "dry" in musical commentary?


Can anyone elaborate?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 07:37:56 AM by J »

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #141 on: June 20, 2018, 08:53:15 AM »
I'll admit to never having understood what commenters mean when they call a given work "dry" or (in this case) "a bit dry".  (BTW, why do reviewers conversely never refer to a piece as "wet" or "moist" or even "fluid", - though sometimes "florid" or "flowing")?  Just what IS the standard antithesis of "dry" in musical commentary?


Can anyone elaborate?

I'm not quite sure, but I think that dry in this context is being used in an analogy with wine, where it means "astringent."  So the opposite would be something like "succulent" or "sweet."  One often sees "lush" being used to describe music as well.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dry

Gives as No. 20: Dull, uninteresting, which is probably close to how the term is sometimes used in music criticism, though I think that the wine analogy often applies as well, when someone talks about dry fugal writing providing an intellectual rather than emotional pleasure, for instance.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:04:28 AM by Mahlerian »
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline J

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #142 on: June 20, 2018, 02:43:44 PM »
I'm not quite sure, but I think that dry in this context is being used in an analogy with wine, where it means "astringent."  So the opposite would be something like "succulent" or "sweet."  One often sees "lush" being used to describe music as well.

You may be onto it.  I get that, and can apply the suggested analogy and contrast to my own listening experience in a meaningful way.

Online Irons

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2018, 01:29:52 AM »
Moeran's first string quartet is an intriguing work. His wife, Peers Coetmore discovered the score in a draw after his death. It is not known when he wrote it although Coetmore thought it an early work. Listening to an excellent Maggini SQ performance on Naxos I'm not so sure. In two movements, there doesn't seem a connection between them - composed at the same time? - and yet, I enjoyed both equally. The first is pastoral with a Vaughan Williams/Delius flavour. The second movement, in five parts, possess a strong traditional folk music influence. The fourth part (Andante) comes as a surprise, superbly played by Maggini, the second violin, viola and cello play in unison what I can only describe as a drone, and the violin plays a heartfelt melody above. After what feels like walking into a cathedral is followed up by a jig!
So, no applause, please. Never applaud political slogans. Only applaud in a concert hall - and only if you like the performance. (Rostislav Dubinsky)

Offline vandermolen

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2018, 02:22:10 AM »
Moeran's first string quartet is an intriguing work. His wife, Peers Coetmore discovered the score in a draw after his death. It is not known when he wrote it although Coetmore thought it an early work. Listening to an excellent Maggini SQ performance on Naxos I'm not so sure. In two movements, there doesn't seem a connection between them - composed at the same time? - and yet, I enjoyed both equally. The first is pastoral with a Vaughan Williams/Delius flavour. The second movement, in five parts, possess a strong traditional folk music influence. The fourth part (Andante) comes as a surprise, superbly played by Maggini, the second violin, viola and cello play in unison what I can only describe as a drone, and the violin plays a heartfelt melody above. After what feels like walking into a cathedral is followed up by a jig!
Right, I must give this another listen to.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline springrite

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2018, 02:34:27 AM »
Right, I must give this another listen to.

Me, too. I don't have much of an impression of this disc after two listens years ago.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2018, 05:48:28 AM »
Re the Moeran Quartet - there is a doctoral thesis from Durham University "The Importance of Being Ernest John : Challenging the Misconceptions about the Life and Works of E. J. Moeran" that is a very interesting read.  The writer Ian Maxwell addresses various aspects of Moeran's life and works that are open to conjecture.  One of which is the dating of this string quartet - not officially No.1.  By comparing handwriting/manuscript used etc he feels they are from very different parts of Moeran's life and career.  Its downloadable for free and if you are interested in Moeran it is well worth searching out.

Edit:  for those who said they will relisten to this the E flat Op.posth quartet is quite delightful.  We have performed in concert on more than one occasion and always got a good response - especially from some Irish Nuns who were really taken with it!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 05:50:07 AM by Roasted Swan »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #147 on: October 30, 2018, 05:52:44 AM »
Re the Moeran Quartet - there is a doctoral thesis from Durham University "The Importance of Being Ernest John : Challenging the Misconceptions about the Life and Works of E. J. Moeran" that is a very interesting read.  The writer Ian Maxwell addresses various aspects of Moeran's life and works that are open to conjecture.  One of which is the dating of this string quartet - not officially No.1.  By comparing handwriting/manuscript used etc he feels they are from very different parts of Moeran's life and career.  Its downloadable for free and if you are interested in Moeran it is well worth searching out.

Edit:  for those who said they will relisten to this the E flat Op.posth quartet is quite delightful.  We have performed in concert on more than one occasion and always got a good response - especially from some Irish Nuns who were really taken with it!

Very interesting - thanks for this.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #148 on: October 30, 2018, 12:15:16 PM »
When I listen to that Maggini disk, which has the two SQs and the String Trio (another fabulous work), I don't feel any 'earliness' in that SQ; all the pieces on the disk sounded equally accomplished.

Online Irons

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2018, 01:00:04 AM »
When I listen to that Maggini disk, which has the two SQs and the String Trio (another fabulous work), I don't feel any 'earliness' in that SQ; all the pieces on the disk sounded equally accomplished.

I thought the same. Their marriage was not a long one and maybe more of a guess on Coetmore's part that it was an early work.
So, no applause, please. Never applaud political slogans. Only applaud in a concert hall - and only if you like the performance. (Rostislav Dubinsky)

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #150 on: November 03, 2018, 11:34:29 AM »
I don't feel any 'earliness' in that SQ; all the pieces on the disk sounded equally accomplished.

I don't think "earliness" is used here in any pejorative sense - literally just when it was written.  The Durham doctoral thesis makes a good case for it being early based on the actual paper manuscript used and the handwriting.

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #151 on: November 03, 2018, 11:42:37 AM »
I guess then either the pieces are all of about the same time or Moeran was remarkable consistent throughout his career. And now I come think about it, the second proposition is true too.

Offline kyjo

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #152 on: January 11, 2019, 01:02:24 PM »
To my great delight, my local radio station was playing Moeran’s lively, “outdoorsy” Sinfonietta earlier this afternoon.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »
To my great delight, my local radio station was playing Moeran’s lively, “outdoorsy” Sinfonietta earlier this afternoon.

That’s a fantastic piece! Love it. I love the Hickox performance of it on EMI.
“I love music passionately. And because I love it, I try to free it from barren traditions that stifle it.” - Claude Debussy

Offline vandermolen

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2019, 03:30:08 PM »
That’s a fantastic piece! Love it. I love the Hickox performance of it on EMI.
I agree. I think that it could just as well be his Symphony 2. Like Bliss's Cello Concerto (originally designated as a 'Concertino') the title is rather diminutive for such a great work. Boult's is my favourite version but I've had that one since the days of LP.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #155 on: January 11, 2019, 03:38:37 PM »
I agree. I think that it could just as well be his Symphony 2. Like Bliss's Cello Concerto (originally designated as a 'Concertino') the title is rather diminutive for such a great work. Boult's is my favourite version but I've had that one since the days of LP.

Indeed. I’ve loved the work on first-listen. I’ve got the Boult recording (somewhere), so I may have to dig it out and give it a spin soon.
“I love music passionately. And because I love it, I try to free it from barren traditions that stifle it.” - Claude Debussy

Offline vandermolen

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #156 on: January 11, 2019, 03:52:47 PM »
Indeed. I’ve loved the work on first-listen. I’ve got the Boult recording (somewhere), so I may have to dig it out and give it a spin soon.
I like all the versions I have, including the first performance under Beecham but I think the Boult has a special quality to it.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #157 on: January 11, 2019, 04:05:12 PM »
I agree. I think that it could just as well be his Symphony 2. Like Bliss's Cello Concerto (originally designated as a 'Concertino') the title is rather diminutive for such a great work. Boult's is my favourite version but I've had that one since the days of LP.
As opposed to the completion! I'll have another listen to the Boult recording,soon! (I haven't got the Hiccups.......sorry,Hickox!! ;D)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #158 on: January 11, 2019, 05:01:51 PM »
I like all the versions I have, including the first performance under Beecham but I think the Boult has a special quality to it.

What you said about Boult having a special quality could be said of many of his performances. He really was a remarkable conductor and the older I get, the more I realize just how special he was.
“I love music passionately. And because I love it, I try to free it from barren traditions that stifle it.” - Claude Debussy

Offline kyjo

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Re: EJ Moeran
« Reply #159 on: January 11, 2019, 06:50:30 PM »
BTW, they were playing the Lloyd-Jones/Naxos recording of the Sinfonietta on the radio, which is great. I also know the Boult/Lyrita recording, which is excellent as well. Don’t know the Hickox/EMI.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

 

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