Author Topic: Dvorak's Symphonies  (Read 18540 times)

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Offline Renfield

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2007, 10:55:17 AM »
There is nothing special about Karajan's 9th...except the last movement has its good points.

But you've obviously not heard other recordings if you think that Karajan is great here.

Being a Karajan "fanboy" as I assuredly am, I will nonetheless have to agree. Karajan only got the grip of the "New World" the very last time he recorded it (on video); and by that time, he was too old to truly "work his magic" on the piece, in my opinion.

I mean, just listen to Kubelík's recording with (Karajan's) Berlin Philharmonic, and you (or at least I) immediately feel so much closer to the "heart" of the music - or the heart of the idiom, if you want to be more academic about it... ;)
"If they know what to do, they will do it themselves: don't disturb it." - Herbert von Karajan, Kapellmeister

"when it is truly time [...] it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you." - H. C. Bukowski

And the world is still everything that is the case.

Michel

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2007, 12:27:47 PM »
Renfield, agreed. I am actually a massive Karajan fan generally, too.

Offline sound67

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2007, 04:31:43 AM »
This set by Ivan Anguelov and the Czecho-Slovak Radio Symphony was a real unexpected treat.  A great cycle all the way around, but especially in the first six symphonies.

Seconded.
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2007, 05:45:25 AM »
Don't let anyone recommend you the Kertesz box set,

What's wrong with it?

Drasko

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2007, 06:13:31 AM »
Vaclav Neumann's earlier analog cycle with Czech Philharmonic has just been issued in Japan. Looks tempting.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1940615

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2007, 06:33:31 AM »
Vaclav Neumann's earlier analog cycle with Czech Philharmonic has just been issued in Japan. Looks tempting.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1940615
I have the later digital cycle. Anyone care to compare the two?

Offline Brian

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2007, 08:42:39 PM »
I recommend the Kubelik/BPO DGG box as a basic reference standard with superb performances of everything.
I unrecommend the Kubelik for its horrid performances of 1 and 2. Anguelov and Kubelik actually complement each other well, since the DG set's 7-9 are masterful and Anguelov's 1-6 are as well.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2007, 08:43:54 PM »
I wouldn't hold that against Kubelik. Symphonies 1 and 2 are extremely unremarkable.

Offline sound67

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2007, 11:47:52 PM »
Indeed. But you know, the legal system requires attorneys to defend their clients the best they can even when they believe they're guilty. The same should apply to classical performances/recordings.  $:)

Thomas
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

mahlertitan

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2007, 08:27:18 AM »
Indeed. But you know, the legal system requires attorneys to defend their clients the best they can even when they believe they're guilty. The same should apply to classical performances/recordings.  $:)

Thomas

what should we do with the guilty ones? should we imprison or execute them too?

Offline Brian

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2007, 11:35:27 AM »
I wouldn't hold that against Kubelik. Symphonies 1 and 2 are extremely unremarkable.
I actually adore #2. In the right hands (Suitner, Anguelov, etc.) it comes across as cuddly teddy bear of a symphony: you don't need it, and it's not much use to grown-ups, but it sure is cute and makes you smile.

longears

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2007, 12:20:57 PM »
Quote
Don't let anyone recommend you the Kertesz box set, there is a lot better out there.
What's wrong with it?
To quote Edwin Starr:

"Absolutely nothin'."

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2007, 04:07:25 PM »
I have the Suitner 2nd (from the set) as well as Kosler's, but they still don't make it any more interesting. To my ears, of course ;).

BorisG

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2007, 08:16:15 PM »
I have the Suitner 2nd (from the set) as well as Kosler's, but they still don't make it any more interesting. To my ears, of course ;).

I am a fan of Suitner and some of his Dvorak, but I do not think anyone could make 1 to 3 interesting enough for me.

Offline alkan

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2007, 02:15:46 AM »
I agree with Larry Rinkel  .....  the Kersetz set has been a reference for years and it is well recorded.      I find it extremely good and I am very happy with it, although I have not heard other versions .....
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

George

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2007, 02:44:18 AM »
To quote Edwin Starr:

"Absolutely nothin'."

"Say it again!"

Offline orange

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2007, 10:19:13 AM »
I have Kertesz's and Bernstein's recordings. And I like Bernstein a bit more.

Offline Brian

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2007, 01:50:42 PM »
I have Kertesz's and Bernstein's recordings. And I like Bernstein a bit more.
Bernstein's Seventh is quite interesting. He plays it more slowly than everyone I know except Kosler (I think Lenny takes 41 minutes), and the result is a very different kind of drama, and an awful lot of orchestral detail. The finale at first seems hesitant, but then it explodes in a fiery dash to the exit.

Offline sound67

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2007, 02:46:12 AM »
Quote
Bernstein's Seventh is quite interesting.

Is it? Usually, the slow Bernstein is about as interesting as the fat Elvis.

See his comatose recording of the 9th.

Thomas
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

Mark

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Re: Dvorak's Symphonies
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2007, 03:25:33 AM »
Usually, the slow Bernstein is about as interesting as the fat Elvis.

My 'Post of Today', no doubt about it. ;D

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