Author Topic: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello  (Read 8296 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dtwilbanks

  • Guest
Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« on: September 18, 2007, 05:43:22 AM »
Who is the better pop-musician-turned-composer? Who is brave enough to actually listen to their "serious" recordings in order to find out?

Mark

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 06:03:08 AM »
From what little (very little) I've heard of either man's 'serious' output, the laurels go to Costello.

Offline Montpellier

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 195
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 06:13:42 AM »
McCartney always has been a composer who had a good sense of music, enough to use the melodic minor scale correctly in "Yesterday", and without knowledge of music theory.   But as a classical composer?   I don't think he's got what it takes.   With his money he could afford the best guidance available but he chooses not to seek it out, or has been told he won't make it and is keeping it quiet.   A super-arrogant person.

I know nothing classical of Elvis Costello, recalling that he started out on a contract with Stiff Records many years ago, did a few gigs with same crowd, Ian Drury & the Blockheads, the Damned, etc, and seems to have resurfaced.   I'll look him up but any recorded works to recommend? 

dtwilbanks

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 06:15:56 AM »
McCartney always has been a composer who had a good sense of music, enough to use the melodic minor scale correctly in "Yesterday", and without knowledge of music theory.   But as a classical composer?   I don't think he's got what it takes.   With his money he could afford the best guidance available but he chooses not to seek it out, or has been told he won't make it and is keeping it quiet.   A super-arrogant person.

I know nothing classical of Elvis Costello, recalling that he started out on a contract with Stiff Records many years ago, did a few gigs with same crowd, Ian Drury & the Blockheads, the Damned, etc, and seems to have resurfaced.   I'll look him up but any recorded works to recommend? 

I don't recommend anything, but here's a link. :)

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Elvis%20Costello&rh=n%3A85%2Ck%3AElvis%20Costello&page=1

Offline JoshLilly

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 402
  • Joachim Raff, the greatest!
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 06:41:49 AM »
I've always thought it would be really neat if McCartney were to come up with melodies for an opera or musical, then give them to another composer skilled in orchestration and other things to build a complete work based around them. He sure can come up with some fantastic tunes.

dtwilbanks

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 06:55:03 AM »
I've always thought it would be really neat if McCartney were to come up with melodies for an opera or musical, then give them to another composer skilled in orchestration and other things to build a complete work based around them. He sure can come up with some fantastic tunes.

That's a fact.

Offline Lethevich

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9748
  • I spilled my drink!
  • Currently Listening to:
    Rihm, Bialas, Ballif, Schumann, Schubert
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 07:03:23 AM »
Damnit, there was another pop musician like this that I was going to mention, but he is so unimportant to me that I forgot his name. His piano music sounded like the most horribly reheated Chopin/Schumann.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

dtwilbanks

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 07:06:41 AM »
Damnit, there was another pop musician like this that I was going to mention, but he is so unimportant to me that I forgot his name. His piano music sounded like the most horribly reheated Chopin/Schumann.

Billy Joel? Joe Jackson?

johnQpublic

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 07:06:58 AM »


The Delusions part is where he believed this was good classical.  >:D

Offline Lethevich

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9748
  • I spilled my drink!
  • Currently Listening to:
    Rihm, Bialas, Ballif, Schumann, Schubert
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2007, 07:15:05 AM »
Billy Joel? Joe Jackson?

It was Billy Joel (I recognise the CD cover linked by johnQ too) - thank you both :) That disc was a highly unenjoyable listen - fortunately I didn't buy it.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Offline Montpellier

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 195
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2007, 07:33:17 AM »
I don't recommend anything, but here's a link. :)

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Elvis%20Costello&rh=n%3A85%2Ck%3AElvis%20Costello&page=1

Thanks for that link.

Hmm, well, the blurbs say it was derived from the French Impressionists then goes on to say who he cribbed from.   I listened to the samples of the first 12 tracks and honestly I can see no reason to go back.  Perhaps it would be brilliant as a ballet.  Shame that DG didn't have the presence of mind to publish a DVD of the ballet.  No doubt they will once the few Costello fans interested in this have bought the CD.   

johnQpublic

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2007, 08:35:31 AM »
Was that "Il Sogno", Anancho?

If it was, I too just listened to three excerpts. No ability to stay on topic (ie theme or motive) for more than 10 seconds. I haven't heard some many diverse ideas laid end to end in a one-minute clip before.  ;)

DavidW

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 04:28:24 PM »
McCartney just came out with a new album awhile back signed with Starbucks, thought it was pop music.  Has he done classical? ???

George

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 04:36:29 PM »
Roger Waters wrote an opera.  :-\

DavidW

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 04:44:43 PM »
Roger Waters wrote an opera.  :-\

Dude that would make such a great punchline.  Just wait for it, have a thread where we are all discussing the merits of Wagner and then out of the blue just that post as is.  It would be beautiful. ;D ;D ;D

Offline Solitary Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • 'She walks in beauty...like the night' ~ Byron
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2007, 04:46:02 PM »
I don't think I've ever owned anything by McCartney or Costello...?

No wait!  I had an EP from Costello in '81 which I didn't like at all. I think I bought it 'cause it was on special and I'd previously enjoyed his song 'I Don't Want to Go to Chelsea'.

I had a cd comp of McCartney's solo work 'cause I liked the song [from my youth] 'Listen to What The Man Said'. But the rest of the disk was dire and I sold it fast  ;)

As to these pop singers pretensions to 'serious' music, well its just a joke.

I was aware of the Billy Joel one too, but haven't been brave enough to venture a listen never mind actually buying the thing.

Pop 'stars' make me smile like a kindly grandparent observing small children trying to dance in platform shoes ;)
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

George

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2007, 04:53:49 PM »
Dude that would make such a great punchline.  Just wait for it, have a thread where we are all discussing the merits of Wagner and then out of the blue just that post as is.  It would be beautiful. ;D ;D ;D

But I don't read the Wagner threads.  :-\

DavidW

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2007, 04:58:08 PM »
But I don't read the Wagner threads.  :-\

Well I originally said Elgar but then that seemed too strange so I changed it to Wagner. ;D

George

  • Guest
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2007, 05:00:27 PM »
Well I originally said Elgar but then that seemed too strange so I changed it to Wagner. ;D

Yeah, I don't read the Elgar threads either, but feel free to use it.  :)

Offline Catison

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1185
  • Morty imagines "Organ, fog horn, cello, & kazoo"..
Re: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2007, 05:03:17 PM »
Good pop music is a perfectly acceptable art form.  For some reason the really good musicians feel they have to justify their talent by turning to classical music.  I've never understood it.  Know your boundaries!
-Brett