Author Topic: Elgar's Hillside  (Read 84084 times)

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Offline J. Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2007, 06:28:01 AM »
Hector, I agree with your assessment. I love the symphony as a whole. But it's those middle movements that begin playing inside my head whenever I think of the work, the passionate elevation of the Larghetto, the frenzy of the Rondo...

I like your analysis of the work's trajectory - the first movement is catastrophic, the last movement, after all that has happened in between, serene and positive.

Yes, the work does 'open out' in the end. You are right there.
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Kullervo

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2007, 06:32:23 AM »
That is certainly a volta face...   :D

No, probably just overcoming prejudices and finally taking something on its own terms.

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2007, 06:35:22 AM »
No, the whole symphony is. Subtle beyond the understanding of many (and they will be on here before long trashing it and everything else)

Ah, that's my problem. Not subtle enough. I'm only fit for unsubtle things like late Beethoven quartets.  :D

dtwilbanks

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2007, 07:13:45 AM »
Slap on your wrists with a butter knife, Karl, for provocation. >:( ;D

And this thread was going so well...

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2007, 07:19:34 AM »
And this thread was going so well...

And who was it who started making personal accusations?  0:)

dtwilbanks

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2007, 07:21:39 AM »
And who was it who started making personal accusations?  0:)

Adam?

karlhenning

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2007, 07:21:51 AM »
All right, I've removed the message under advisement.

But, my friends, talking of the merits of the music is one thing.  Retreating into sneers at "the unwashed" who alleged lack the "subtlety" to appreciate the merits of the music, are another.

Agreed?

Offline J. Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2007, 07:22:17 AM »
This thread, any thread on this board will flourish and survive if people direct their subtlety and verbal dexterity (if present) at the things they care for.
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

dtwilbanks

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2007, 07:22:48 AM »
All right, I've removed the message under advisement.

But, my friends, talking of the merits of the music is one thing.  Retreating into sneers at "the unwashed" who alleged lack the "subtlety" to appreciate the merits of the music, are another.

Agreed?
Yah.

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2007, 07:24:03 AM »

dtwilbanks

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2007, 07:24:49 AM »

karlhenning

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2007, 07:25:58 AM »
Actually the most curious thing about Hector's post was characterizing Elgar's orchestration as lucid.  It's not an adjective one normally associates with that orchestration;  and though it is a while since I looked at the score to the symphonies, lucid was not a word which leapt to my mind at the time, either.

Mark

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2007, 07:28:34 AM »
Actually the most curious thing about Hector's post was characterizing Elgar's orchestration as lucid.  It's not an adjective one normally associates with that orchestration;  and though it is a while since I looked at the score to the symphonies, lucid was not a word which leapt to my mind at the time, either.

Might 'chaotic' be a more appropriate word? The Second Symphony certainly sounds all over the place (at times) to my untrained ears.

Offline J. Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2007, 07:30:55 AM »
Actually the most curious thing about Hector's post was characterizing Elgar's orchestration as lucid.  It's not an adjective one normally associates with that orchestration;  and though it is a while since I looked at the score to the symphonies, lucid was not a word which leapt to my mind at the time, either.

I'm listening to the Rondo of the Second (Downes) whilst writing this, and though 'lucid' is perhaps not the correct adjective, because Elgar's music has a solidity which you don't normally associate with lightness or transparance, there is a clarity there: all lines are audible.
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

karlhenning

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2007, 07:34:56 AM »
Sounds more like it, Jezetha;  I should revisit the Second, and probably will if there's a little less of this "you unsubtle slumgullions don't get it, do you?" chuff  8)

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2007, 07:39:30 AM »

longears

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2007, 07:39:44 AM »
This thread, any thread on this board will flourish and survive if people direct their subtlety and verbal dexterity (if present) at the things they care for.
Me like Moustache's Cello Cto.

karlhenning

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Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2007, 07:40:31 AM »
Might 'chaotic' be a more appropriate word? The Second Symphony certainly sounds all over the place (at times) to my untrained ears.

The textures are certainly active, so I don't mind 'chaotic'.

Offline J. Z. Herrenberg

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  • William Havergal Brian, symphonist (1876-1972)
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  • Currently Listening to:
    Brian, Ligeti, Jones, Orr, Magnard, Langgaard, Pettersson and 'The Hobbit' soundtrack
Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2007, 07:41:33 AM »
Sounds more like it, Jezetha;  I should revisit the Second, and probably will if there's a little less of this "you unsubtle slumgullions don't get it, do you?" chuff  8)

I agree. If you think you have an insight, share it. If you think people are deaf or blind, give them eyes and ears. And if they don't want them, move on.
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

dtwilbanks

  • Guest
Re: Elgar's Hillside
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2007, 07:42:31 AM »
I agree. If you think you have an insight, share it. If you think people are deaf or blind, give them eyes and ears. And if they don't want them, move on.

 0:)

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