Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 278373 times)

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Offline Cato

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Stockhausen's Spaceship
« on: September 21, 2007, 06:24:19 AM »
STOCKHAUSEN'S SPACESHIP
The Wall Street Journal carried a rave review for a live performance of Stockhausen's Stimmung.

It mentioned the 2007 recording of the work, but ultimately recommended the original one under Stockhausen's direction from his DGG days (daze?).

As usual, the article included a wistful, melancholy mention of the composer who seemingly has gone berserk in his middle age and dotage, communing with other planets, composing the (manic?) LICHT operas, etc.

It also mentioned the curiosity of a composer who claims to be cutting edge and high-tech, but whose recent works are now available from his German mountain top only via snail mail.    :o

Should Stockhausen not be the Stravinsky or the Shostakovich of the age?  What happened?!

Is he so far above us    0:)    that we just have not caught up with him?

Or is it the other direction?    >:D      :o

And did he really come into contact with aliens...or a brain glitch?

http://www.stockhausen.org/
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 07:42:38 AM »
Shouldn't this thread be called Stockhausen's Helicopter ?

dtwilbanks

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 07:45:04 AM »
Stockhausen's OOP Outlet  ;D

Offline Brewski

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2007, 07:57:39 AM »
Shouldn't this thread be called Stockhausen's Helicopter ?

 ;D  ;D  ;D

To briefly address some of Cato's original post, I think Stimmung is one of his most fascinating pieces.  I heard the original recording years ago (OOP and not re-released on CD, I guess?), but haven't heard the more recent Hyperion recording yet, with Singcircle.

But I have such mixed feelings about his work.  Some of it astounds me; some of it makes me scratch my head.  Whether it means he's "ahead of his time" I have no idea at this point.

A favorite concert memory: Maurizio Pollini performing at Carnegie Hall back in 1989, starting with Brahms's Four Piano Pieces and Schoenberg's Three Piano Pieces.  On the second half of the program he did Stockhausen's Piano Pieces 5 and 9, followed by the Beethoven Hammerklavier.  Quite an evening!

--Bruce
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.
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Twitter: @brucehodgesny

Offline Cato

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2007, 10:41:31 AM »
Excerpt from an interview with Stockhausen:  (Cato's translation)

P.I. - But you have defined a new concept of music.

Stockhausen - There was indeed "new music." The concept became especially important after the war.  But most of the so-called new composers still write quite conventionally in the meantime.  Even my own students - I am quite amazed by this - stick to traditional performance practices and write pieces in the old styles, mixing everything up.  They sprinkle in some paprika now and then, but the trend on the whole planet is to write in a neo-romantic style.  And there are even deluded ones who write Crossover Music, so they can get performed.

P.I. - Isn't that important to you?

Stockhausen - No.

P.I. - For whom do you compose then?

Stockhausen - I compose.  I've never ever said for whom.  I like it of course when some fellow musicians, whom I know and perform with, find a work good or interesting.  But I really don't know what the world might think about it.  In any case my works are finding a sympathetic public in increasing measure.  The halls are full.  Resistance comes from the concert organizers - and I understand it - because the works demand long rehearsals and because of the costs of equipment, loudspeakers, mixers, etc....

P.I. - You have once stated that the highest calling a human being can have is to be a musician.

Stockhausen - I am still of that opinion today, especially with a view of the future...It ought to happen that everyone learns singing and speaks in an artistic, melodious style...The individualized human of the future will be a singer, a musician, der thinks and feels everything musically.  Because music is the finest, most ethereal, most essential (non-material) language that exists.  For me music is the oscillations of extraterretrial worlds, bodies and elements.



http://www.planet-interview.de/interviews/pi.php?interview=stockhausen-karlheinz


Quote
Aber Sie haben einen neuen Musikbegriff definiert.
Stockhausen: Es gab ja "Neue Musik". Der Begriff ist nach dem Krieg ganz besonders wichtig geworden. Aber die meisten so genannten Neue Musik-Komponisten schreiben mittlerweile ganz konventionell. Selbst meine Schüler - ich bin ganz überrascht - passen sich der traditionellen Aufführungspraxis an und schreiben Stücke im alten Stil, mischen alles durcheinander. Die tun hier und da ein bisschen Paprika hinein, aber alles in allem ist der Trend auf der ganzen Welt zur Zeit, im neoromantischen Stil zu komponieren. Und es gibt ja noch viele Verrückte, die Crossover-Musik schreiben, um oft aufgeführt zu werden.
Ist Ihnen das denn nicht wichtig?
Stockhausen: Nein.
Für wen komponieren Sie dann?
Stockhausen: Ich komponiere. Doch ich habe noch nie gesagt, für wen. Ich freue mich natürlich, wenn einige Musiker, die ich gut kenne und mit denen ich zusammen musiziere, das interessant oder gut finden. Aber darüber hinaus weiß ich ja gar nicht, was die Welt denkt. Allerdings finden meine Werke in zunehmendem Maße ein großes und sehr sympathisches Publikum. Die Säle sind voll, wenn ich Konzerte gebe. Die Widerstände von den Veranstaltern - und das verstehe ich sehr gut - kommen, weil die Werke zu viele Proben verlangen und wegen der Kosten für Lautsprecher, Mischpult...


Sie haben mal gesagt, "Die wichtigste Berufung des Menschen kann nur sein, Musiker zu werden."
Stockhausen: Der Meinung bin ich noch heute, vor allem im Hinblick auf die Zukunft...  Es sollte dahin kommen, dass jeder singen lernt und in einer künstlerischen, gesanglichen Art spricht.... Der differenziertere Mensch der Zukunft wird ein Sänger sein, ein Musiker, der alles in musikalischen Kategorien fühlt und denkt. Denn Musik ist die feinste, die ätherischste, die immateriellste Sprache, die es überhaupt gibt. Für mich sind die Schwingungen auch der außerirdischen Welten, Körper und Elemente - Musik.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 10:44:53 AM by Cato »
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 04:17:41 PM »
Am i the only one who thinks Stockhausen should be taken captive and lopped into the sun along with his music? He even has a spaceship for the purpose, how convenient.

Kullervo

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 04:46:13 PM »
Am i the only one who thinks Stockhausen should be taken captive and lopped into the sun along with his music? He even has a spaceship for the purpose, how convenient.

Probably not, but don't you think murder is a bit drastic?

longears

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 05:19:55 PM »
 "The fool!  The meddling idiot!  As though his ape's brain could contain the secrets of the KRELL!!!" - Walter Pidgeon as Morbius in Forbidden Planet


greg

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2007, 05:36:05 PM »
Shouldn't this thread be called Stockhausen's Helicopter ?
how about Stockhausen's Stalkers?
a place for hardcore Stockhausen fans

Kullervo

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 05:42:51 PM »
Stockhausen's Steakhouse



FREE APPETIZER WITH THE PURCHASE OF ENTREE OF LESSER VALUE
Offer good while supplies last.

greg

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2007, 05:45:07 PM »
Stockhausen's Stool


(no picture provided, but he does like to make charts of the nutrients that make up the overall contents and texture. and flavor)

gomro

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 06:36:47 PM »
STOCKHAUSEN'S SPACESHIP
The Wall Street Journal carried a rave review for a live performance of Stockhausen's Stimmung.

It mentioned the 2007 recording of the work, but ultimately recommended the original one under Stockhausen's direction from his DGG days (daze?).

As usual, the article included a wistful, melancholy mention of the composer who seemingly has gone berserk in his middle age and dotage, communing with other planets, composing the (manic?) LICHT operas, etc.

It also mentioned the curiosity of a composer who claims to be cutting edge and high-tech, but whose recent works are now available from his German mountain top only via snail mail.    :o

Should Stockhausen not be the Stravinsky or the Shostakovich of the age?  What happened?!

Is he so far above us    0:)    that we just have not caught up with him?

Or is it the other direction?    >:D      :o

And did he really come into contact with aliens...or a brain glitch?

http://www.stockhausen.org/

I have often considered Stockhausen to be the Scriabin, not the Stravinsky or Shostakovich, of our time. That isn't saying that I dislike Stockhausen; on the contrary, many of his works I would not want to be without. Inori, Michaels Reise, Mantra, Lichter-Wasser, Refrain, the list could just go on. But Scriabin sought to compose some sort of multi-media gesamtkunstwerk; so does Stockhausen. Scriabin thought of himself as somehow supernatural; so, evidently, does Stockhausen, though he uses sci-fi terminology rather than theosophist. Scriabin searched for new forms, which often seem bizarre and inchoate; Stockhausen, ditto.  Scriabin, in the end, was essentially a unique, isolated incident with no "Scriabin school" left in his wake; it seems Stockhausen, by his own choice, is well on the way to becoming no more than that. Only time will tell.

greg

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2007, 06:38:15 PM »
yeah, somehow i don't think there's going to be many follow-ups to the Helicopter Quartet

longears

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 06:50:08 PM »
I have often considered Stockhausen to be the Scriabin, not the Stravinsky or Shostakovich, of our time. That isn't saying that I dislike Stockhausen; on the contrary, many of his works I would not want to be without. Inori, Michaels Reise, Mantra, Lichter-Wasser, Refrain, the list could just go on. But Scriabin sought to compose some sort of multi-media gesamtkunstwerk; so does Stockhausen. Scriabin thought of himself as somehow supernatural; so, evidently, does Stockhausen, though he uses sci-fi terminology rather than theosophist. Scriabin searched for new forms, which often seem bizarre and inchoate; Stockhausen, ditto.  Scriabin, in the end, was essentially a unique, isolated incident with no "Scriabin school" left in his wake; it seems Stockhausen, by his own choice, is well on the way to becoming no more than that. Only time will tell.

Nice analogy.

Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2007, 06:49:58 AM »
I've heard Stockhausen give pre-concert speeches in London three or four times now. On each occasion, he was lucid, amusing, enthusiastic, unpretentious and, above all, quite sane. I have no idea why comes across as such a basket case in interviews.

uffeviking

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2007, 06:52:19 AM »
In German we say: "Er nimmt uns auf die Schippe!"

Translate: "He is putting us on!"  ;D

Offline Cato

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2007, 11:09:48 AM »
In German we say: "Er nimmt uns auf die Schippe!"

Translate: "He is putting us on!"  ;D

Das könnte sein!     :o

I have an interview of Stockhausen when he was in his early 60's, and he comes across as rather matter-of-fact about lunatic things e.g. his obsession with basset horns, earth mothers, etc.

One of my favorite sections of the LICHT operas is in "Michaels Examen" where Michael hops around sing-songing "O Basset Horn, Basset Horn!"   

Unglaublich!    :D
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

longears

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2007, 11:16:33 AM »
In German we say: "Er nimmt uns auf die Schippe!"

Translate: "He is putting us on!"  ;D
Auf Englisch sagen wir: "He's shoveling scheiss."

(Or maybe: "He's a french fry short of a happy meal.")
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 11:55:05 AM by uffeviking »

uffeviking

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2007, 11:56:33 AM »
You got your languages mixed up, me thinks! ;)

Offline Al Moritz

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2007, 06:17:57 PM »

P.I. - For whom do you compose then?

Stockhausen - I compose.  I've never ever said for whom.  I like it of course when some fellow musicians, whom I know and perform with, find a work good or interesting.  But I really don't know what the world might think about it.  In any case my works are finding a sympathetic public in increasing measure.  The halls are full.  Resistance comes from the concert organizers - and I understand it - because the works demand long rehearsals and because of the costs of equipment, loudspeakers, mixers, etc....

For whom does he compose? Certainly for me (and I know that fortunately I am not the only one ;)). With a few exceptions, Stockhausen’s works are consistently among the music of the last 50 years that gives me the most enjoyment and impresses me the most. This holds up until his most recent music. For example, Himmelfahrt (Ascension) (2004/5) for synthesizer (or organ), soprano and tenor, and Licht-Bilder (2002) for tenor, trumpet, basset-horn, flute and ring-modulation are, in my view, simply in a league of their own when it comes to not just quality, but also sheer originality of ideas and the authoritative execution of these in the finest detail and with sublime compositional technique.

One of my favorite at-home concerts is currently Gruppen followed by Himmelfahrt. Both works feature polyphony of strands in different tempi – in the latter, the two hands of the keyboard player play in different simultaneous tempi (!) – and both employ the concept in distinct ways. While Gruppen is gestural music, Himmelfahrt applies a more melodic approach. Both works offer complex listening experiences. At the end of such a “concert” I am exhausted but happily so.

The Helicopter Quartet – alas the only more recent work of Stockhausen that is available outside Stockhausen-Verlag – certainly does not tell the whole story about his more recent music.

1. Apart from the very good beginning and the terrific end (ascension and descent) I find it most of the time boring, and I seem to share this experience with many others. I have had some moments where I thought I had started to like the music, but then, after listening to some other recent Stockhausen music, like the two above mentioned works, I really couldn’t bear it.

2. The extravagant perfomance requirements are the most outrageous in Stockhausen’s oeuvre and not typical. While other works are difficult to perform not just in terms of technique but also in terms of costs, none is of such a forbidding nature. And many recent works, not just the composer’s own chamber-music-like excerpts from Licht, but also his compositions from the new Klang cycle, are relatively easy to perform in monetary terms.

I've heard Stockhausen give pre-concert speeches in London three or four times now. On each occasion, he was lucid, amusing, enthusiastic, unpretentious and, above all, quite sane. I have no idea why comes across as such a basket case in interviews.

Yes, in real-life Stockhausen is a very nice, un-arrogant and down-to-earth person – I have experienced this during the summer courses, in personal conversations and in exchange of letters.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 06:36:56 PM by Al Moritz »

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