Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 261894 times)

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Online Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1360 on: April 18, 2017, 05:48:38 AM »
I'm not sure, the book though is all Pre-Licht music, still a satisfying read.

I really want to read an analysis/context/bio book of Licht (if there is one at all...), the closest thing I found when it comes to comprehensive oversight,  is the Stockhausen: Sounds in space blog - http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.co.nz/ (another great resource)  :D

But a book??  :(

Does Nathanb know ?  :-\

Have you had a look at Robin Maconie's book called Other Planets? I haven't, but someone recommended it to me when I, like you, was interested in reading ideas about Licht and Klang.
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Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1361 on: April 23, 2017, 04:18:21 AM »
Have you had a look at Robin Maconie's book called Other Planets? I haven't, but someone recommended it to me when I, like you, was interested in reading ideas about Licht and Klang.

My Uni library has it, so I'll issue it out after my short holiday is up  ;)
"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1362 on: April 23, 2017, 04:22:32 AM »
Man I love Licht <3 <3

Samstag, Donnerstag and Montag are where it's at!  8)


"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline James

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1363 on: April 23, 2017, 02:50:55 PM »
Man I love Licht <3 <3

Samstag, Donnerstag and Montag are where it's at!  8)

I know Stockhausen well (so many of today's composers who are branded 'new-ish' (a fallacy) just rip off stuff he already tried (and mostly failed) .. anyhow .. I like some bits from LICHT, but it's very, very over-indulgent, way over-long and in a lot of cases really, really boring.
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Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1364 on: April 23, 2017, 03:19:34 PM »
I know Stockhausen well (so many of today's composers who are branded 'new-ish' (a fallacy) just rip off stuff he already tried (and mostly failed) .. anyhow .. I like some bits from LICHT, but it's very, very over-indulgent, way over-long and in a lot of cases really, really boring.

Well just like Wagner and other highly ambitious composers, you can't expect EVERYTHING to hold your interest in such a giant work. It has a few less interesting scenes here and there for me (the ones that sounds too much like Sirius) but as a whole, I absolutely love Licht. Granted, I can't listen to it every day or every week, but regularly enough.

I don't really believe there's anything as over-indulgent personally, all art is either to indulged in it's own feelings (songwriter music, romantic music etc.), concepts, philosophies, experiments or theory anyway, and to write music that isn't invested in by the creator of the art is kinda lacks a sense of legitimacy right? half-assed music?
But Stockhausen was really invested and essentially living in the world he was creating, quite remarkable!

That's all beside the point, Licht has it's breathtaking moments and  then it has it's lesser moments but I still love it very much  ;D
"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline James

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1365 on: April 23, 2017, 03:39:03 PM »
I went through a period of basically listening to nothing but his music, this lasted for about 5-6 years. I know all the "operas" very well. I know Stockhausen's body of work like the back of my hand. It takes time to let things settle and clarity sink in - to reach real perspective. And he has nothing in common with Wagner, I hate when people try to compare him to that Giant. People who do are uneducated and have no ears. Stockhausen in no way, shape or form comes close to Wagner's music. Heck, even Wagner's "bloody chunks" destroy everything Stockhausen did. Having said this .. Stockhausen was one of the best classical composers of his time, but this speaks to how crappy his era was - most composers (including him) wasted their great talent searching for new worlds, most of it failed to take hold and overall it's very, very patchy/splintered in it's triumphs.
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Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1366 on: April 23, 2017, 03:50:56 PM »
I went through a period of basically listening to nothing but his music, this lasted for about 5-6 years. I know all the "operas" very well. I know Stockhausen's body of work like the back of my hand. It takes time to let things settle and clarity sink in - to reach real perspective. And he has nothing in common with Wagner, I hate when people try to compare him to that Giant. People who do are uneducated and have no ears. Stockhausen in no way, shape or form comes close to Wagner's music. Heck, even Wagner's "bloody chunks" destroy everything Stockhausen did. Having said this .. Stockhausen was one of the best classical composers of his time, but this speaks to how crappy his era was - most composers (including him) wasted their great talent searching for new worlds, most of it failed to take hold and overall it's very, very patchy/splintered in it's triumphs.


I didn't compare their music stylistically to each other, lol
Stockhausen share a similar idea to Wagner's "Gesamtkunstwerk", take it or leave it and they where both highly ambitious. Wagner doesn't stand a chance against Stockhausen anyway  :P

"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline James

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1367 on: April 23, 2017, 04:33:10 PM »

I didn't compare their music stylistically to each other, lol
Stockhausen share a similar idea to Wagner's "Gesamtkunstwerk", take it or leave it and they where both highly ambitious. Wagner doesn't stand a chance against Stockhausen anyway  :P

Thin associations that are not even worth mentioning. Stockhausen was not on Wagner's level as a musician.

Wagner on a purely musical level, had a profound impact on the real development of music, it was truly music of the future that stretched everything to the limit .. and changed the direction it was going in in a major way. No one could pretend he didn't exist, they continued in that line (including the 2nd Viennese), few rebelled against it. He's one of the 4 or 5 composers (Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Debussy, maybe Stravinsky) throughout history who managed to summarize everything that was written before them, create many major masterpieces, and truly influenced the future. All 3 of those. Some composers manage to write masterpieces, but they don't alter the course of history, others are uneven composers and have small impacts in tiny areas (Stockhausen, Berlioz etc.) - but history would essentially be unaltered without them.
 
Stockhausen had flashes of genius but was very uneven, he had impact in small areas of music. The 19th century was much more advanced and radical than the 20th century ever was on a musical level.
"The crowd is the gathering place of the weakest; true creation is a solitary act." - Bukowski

Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1368 on: April 23, 2017, 04:41:40 PM »
Thin associations that are not even worth mentioning. Stockhausen was not on Wagner's level as a musician.

 He's one of the 4 or 5 composers (Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Debussy, maybe Stravinsky) throughout history who managed to summarize everything that was written before them, ........small impacts in tiny areas ( Berlioz etc.)


Yep, you're just talking out your ass  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline James

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1369 on: April 23, 2017, 04:45:01 PM »
Yep, you're just talking out your ass  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Why do I even bother, when you just reply with this childish 3rd rate stuff that says nothing? I'm guessing you're in your early 20s or younger?
"The crowd is the gathering place of the weakest; true creation is a solitary act." - Bukowski

Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1370 on: April 23, 2017, 05:04:11 PM »
Why do I even bother, when you just reply with this childish 3rd rate stuff that says nothing? I'm guessing you're in your early 20s or younger?

You highly underestimate or don't understand Berlioz at all if you think he had a small impact, lol, he changed orchestration forever and was also pushing tonality. You failed to mention Liszt's impact of Wagner too  ::)

I didn't come here for an argument, which you seem to be looking for with everyone, everywhere here lately  :laugh:

My age is of no concern but I am an adult in university, yes.


I get that you really prefer the romantic composers (and Bach) I get that but I happen to have a view on the opposite side of the spectrum, that you obviously don't like. So what?  :-\ 
"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1371 on: April 23, 2017, 05:21:39 PM »


Why do I even bother?

We're all eternally grateful that you do.

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Offline James

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1372 on: April 23, 2017, 05:26:03 PM »
You highly underestimate or don't understand Berlioz at all if you think he had a small impact, lol, he changed orchestration forever and was also pushing tonality. You failed to mention Liszt's impact of Wagner too  ::)

I didn't come here for an argument, which you seem to be looking for with everyone, everywhere here lately  :laugh:

My age is of no concern but I am an adult in university, yes.


I get that you really prefer the romantic composers (and Bach) I get that but I happen to have a view on the opposite side of the spectrum, that you obviously don't like. So what?  :-\

My preferences have nothing to do with this, I'm trying to have a very level headed discourse. Berlioz was a very, very uneven composer, he had a small impact on the orchestra (largely in terms of color, Symphony Fantastic), but certainly nowhere near what Wagner did with the orchestra or musical expression/potential as a whole. Heck, Beethoven's vocabulary was far more advanced than Berlioz. Ditto the expression. I don't think any educated, realistic, level headed, rational person (regardless of their personal preferences) would put Berlioz (or Liszt!, or Stockhausen!) anywhere near the level of composers like Bach, Beethoven or Wagner.
"The crowd is the gathering place of the weakest; true creation is a solitary act." - Bukowski

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