Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 344299 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

gomro

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2007, 05:41:57 PM »
Any Stockhausen buffs out there in GMGland check the broadcast out...
I did...liked what I heard a great deal, in particular the stuff I've never heard before like the electronic music from Friday Light and Joy for 2 Harps from the Klang chamber-cycle ...so I rush over to the official Stockhausen site wanting to buy this stuff, and forgot about the astronomically ridiculous pricing....almost $80 for a 2 cd-set, half that for a single.... :-\

That BBC broadcast was very interesting; there's a set of interviews with various people, among them Markus Stockhausen and Pierre Boulez, on that site as well. ( I ordered Freude (Joy) about a week before Stockhausen died, along with 4 other discs. I'll post some opinions once I receive the discs and get them "under my belt." )  I was very glad that they played the excerpts of Freude and the electronic music with sound scenes from Freitag aus Licht; too many of the recent articles I've read indicate that only his early music is worthwhile. Nothing could be further from the truth; in fact, I stand by the assertion that Stockhausen was at the height of his powers up until his death.

But, yeah, it cost me $180 to get the 5 albums. It's all about how much you want to hear his work, I guess; I'm willing to pay that much, albeit somewhat grudgingly, ( http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=14671423&blogID=330865300 ) because his music means that much to me.  Who knows what will happen with the Verlag now?  And as far as his music goes -- I am awaiting, any day, the first performance of the Helicopter Quartet with taped copter sounds. I know that Irvine Arditti wanted to take it on the road with tapes and was forbidden by Stockhausen to do so; the performance practice is no longer in KhS's hands, and we'll see what happens with that.

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2007, 12:16:13 AM »
too many of the recent articles I've read indicate that only his early music is worthwhile. Nothing could be further from the truth; in fact, I stand by the assertion that Stockhausen was at the height of his powers up until his death.

I fully stand by your assertion. I have tried to get that across for years, mostly successfully once people have actually started to listen to the music. For example, once I had gotten about 5 people on a predecessor of this board to purchase the CD of the a cappella Welt-Parlament. Boy, were they enthusiastic! (And most of them had been skeptics of late Stockhausen.)

lukeottevanger

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2007, 12:21:46 AM »
For me, Al, the turning point was that CD of Inori you kindly supplied so many of us with - it radically changed my conception of Stockhausen, and I think it one of the finest post-war works I know of.

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2007, 12:40:20 AM »
For me, Al, the turning point was that CD of Inori you kindly supplied so many of us with - it radically changed my conception of Stockhausen, and I think it one of the finest post-war works I know of.

Yes, Luke, and I still very much remember that wonderfully perceptive email that you once sent me about that work.

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8700
  • An American Hero!
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2007, 11:46:37 AM »
It is possible that Stockhausen will eventually be compared to Scriabin and Wagner as a composer whose mystic theories one can/should/must ignore, and simply deal with the music as music.

I am reminded of the famous story about Bruckner as he watched one of Wagner's operas, either Goetterdaemmerung or Tristan, and then near the end asked someone next to him: "Can you tell me exactly why the heroine is dying?"  He apparently simply listened to the "music as music" and theories about a Gesamtkunstwerk were unnecessary.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2007, 02:16:21 PM »
It is possible that Stockhausen will eventually be compared to Scriabin and Wagner as a composer whose mystic theories one can/should/must ignore, and simply deal with the music as music.

I am reminded of the famous story about Bruckner as he watched one of Wagner's operas, either Goetterdaemmerung or Tristan, and then near the end asked someone next to him: "Can you tell me exactly why the heroine is dying?"  He apparently simply listened to the "music as music" and theories about a Gesamtkunstwerk were unnecessary.

I would agree in that I am first and foremost interested in the music as such. In my essay on the work Sirius,

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/sirius.htm

I quote Stockhausen a bit, but my own comments on the story of the work in this 12-page-essay consist of a single dry sentence:

"SIRIUS is a kind of science-fiction story in which four messengers from Sirius land on Earth, teach the humans about the music on that star and after that take off again into space."

The rest is all description of the music. I do not even mention that Stockhausen thought he was from Sirius. Did the composer object? Not at all, he loved my essay.

As far as the mythology of LICHT in relation to "mystic theories" goes, here is my comment from "Introduction to Samstag":

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/samstagintro.htm

"In this context it should be pointed out that the message of LICHT does not appear to revolve around particular religious beliefs. Rather, it is concerned with universal concepts regarding human nature, the relationship of humans with God and the battle of spirits and minds. As the framework for this message, the opera cycle uses a specific spiritual mythology, created from familiar religious elements – as an example, the "mystical union of Michael and Eve" from SONNTAG has parallels in the teachings of "mystical union", e.g., of the soul with God, in several of the major world religions, but is not found as such in any religion (and, by the way, not in the Urantia Book, either)."

(The composer didn't object to this either.)

You can think of it like Tolkien's mythology if you will (and this author was Catholic).

***

BTW, Stockhausen may have had phases where he believed in reincarnation, but towards the end he at least semi-returned to his Catholic roots.

He had written in the program note to the world premiere of HIMMELFAHRT (Ascension), a work of 2004/05: "I pray to Saint Michael, that I may someday ascend – like Jesus did – into Heaven which, like music, is invisible."

(My essay on the music:
http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/himmelfahrt.htm)

gomro

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2007, 06:03:10 PM »
As the framework for this message, the opera cycle uses a specific spiritual mythology, created from familiar religious elements – as an example, the "mystical union of Michael and Eve" from SONNTAG has parallels in the teachings of "mystical union", e.g., of the soul with God, in several of the major world religions, but is not found as such in any religion (and, by the way, not in the Urantia Book, either)."

I equate that "mystical union" with Christ receiving his Church, which is referred to as "the bride of Christ" in various places throughout the New Testament. I think Eve can very easily stand for the redeemed, mystically made one with Christ/Michael (Michael also represents Christ in the Revelation of St. John). And Hoch-Zeiten does mean Weddings!  But all this being the case, the music can be enjoyed without paying any attention to the cosmology. I can't speak German, so the words to most of LICHT go right past me unless I follow the lyric sheet and translation...but that doesn't lessen the effect of the music a bit!

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8700
  • An American Hero!
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2007, 04:19:44 PM »
Critic Greg Sandow had an article about Stockhausen in today's (Dec. 19, 2007) Wall Street Journal:

An excerpt:

"And then there was Miles Davis, who first heard Stockhausen in the '60s and never stopped talking about him. Once, on tour in Germany, he told his audience to give up on Beethoven: "You've got Stockhausen now." Stockhausen, along with James Brown, was a major influence on a dizzying Miles Davis album, "On the Corner," released in 1972. (Funk and the classical avant-garde, together at last!) Davis and Stockhausen met; they even recorded together, though the results have never been released.

Frank Zappa loved Stockhausen. So does Bjork. And so do many jazz musicians and many creators of the latest, strangest, most radical electronic dance tracks.

But in the classical world, Stockhausen -- though a major figure in music history books -- seemed half-forgotten when he died. That's partly his own fault. His mysticism took him over; he said he'd contacted beings from another star and in effect had channeled their music. Late in the '70s he embarked on a huge cycle of operas, seven of them, 29 hours of music in all. And though some were produced, the project as a whole seemed too much for the classical world to swallow, especially when one of the works called for a string quartet in which each instrumentalist is suspended in the air from a helicopter.

Stockhausen also withdrew his CDs from Deutsche Grammophon and made them available only from him, at exalted prices, with no chance even to buy them online. You had to send him a check in Germany. That just about removed his music from circulation, though there's a healthy trade in his old LPs on eBay.

Thus the paradox. When a meditative, nourishing new CD of "Stimmung" emerged this year, it took me back to the '60s and I happily reviewed it -- right here in these pages. Most of my classical-music friends had barely even heard of the piece. But with a young jazz musician I happened to meet, I could have discussed it for hours."

Mr. Sandow is a composer, critic and consultant who's writing a book on the future of classical music.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8700
  • An American Hero!
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #88 on: December 22, 2007, 12:54:02 PM »
"And then there was Miles Davis, who first heard Stockhausen in the '60s and never stopped talking about him. Once, on tour in Germany, he told his audience to give up on Beethoven: "You've got Stockhausen now." "

hmmmm interesting... 8)

Send that over to the "All Composers Are Inferior to Beethoven" topic!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8700
  • An American Hero!
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2007, 03:18:31 PM »
For those who are interested, the curious Prayer at Stockhausen's Grave, signed by his two...lady...apprentices!

http://www.stockhausen.org/prayer_for_Stockhausen.pdf

The website now offers an "historic" bit of news: the score for MOMENTE is now available for c. $700.00!!!

It will be interesting to see if prices drop at Stockhausen-Verlag, or if they go up!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

longears

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2007, 05:20:35 PM »
"And then there was Miles Davis, who first heard Stockhausen in the '60s and never stopped talking about him. Once, on tour in Germany, he told his audience to give up on Beethoven: "You've got Stockhausen now." "

hmmmm interesting... 8)

And telling...guess that's as good a demonstration as any of the effect of heroin on cognition.

I can just imagine Wayne Newton at a club in East St. Louis saying, "Forget about Miles...you've got Justin Guarini now."

gomro

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #91 on: January 05, 2008, 07:32:08 AM »
here's a quote from Edo de Waart that seems somewhat connected to this discussion:
 "I like composers who write human music. I'm not a great Stockhausen fan, I'm more for Berio and Lutoslawski, Berg more than Webern."

So, evidently, he believes Stockhausen did not write "human music," whatever that is.  My guess: music that appeals to people's hearts, perhaps, more so than intellectual composer-only puzzles.  I spun Lichter-Wasser yesterday, and that piece alone would be reason for me to differ with de Waart's assessment. I could name others. But again, Stockhausen's later (and I'll go out on a limb and dare to say "superior") output is unknown to many.   

Offline MDL

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 915
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #92 on: January 05, 2008, 07:45:57 AM »
here's a quote from Edo de Waart that seems somewhat connected to this discussion:
 "I like composers who write human music. I'm not a great Stockhausen fan, I'm more for Berio and Lutoslawski, Berg more than Webern."

So, evidently, he believes Stockhausen did not write "human music," whatever that is.  My guess: music that appeals to people's hearts, perhaps, more so than intellectual composer-only puzzles.  I spun Lichter-Wasser yesterday, and that piece alone would be reason for me to differ with de Waart's assessment. I could name others. But again, Stockhausen's later (and I'll go out on a limb and dare to say "superior") output is unknown to many.   

There isn't a more human piece of avant-garde music than Momente.

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12017
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #93 on: January 05, 2008, 01:26:16 PM »
Oh this is just too cool for words.  To mark the deaths of Stockhausen and Ike Turner  :o, composer Miguel Frasconi has created this little item.  It's short, about 3 minutes long.

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12017
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2008, 09:49:49 AM »
From the blog On an Overgrown Path : Stimmung, sung by London Voices, will be one of the featured items on Faster Than Sound, part of the 2008 Aldeburgh Summer Festival. 

More here.

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

greg

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2008, 01:52:08 PM »
stockhausen's helicopter quartet is a featured video on youtube right now!
i don't know how the system works, though, or if everyone sees it as a featured video right now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU

661 ratings, everyone seems to hate it though.

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2008, 04:42:15 AM »
I transfer this post from the Carter thread:

Hey Al, this year I'm going to try make an effort to explore KS's later output...you seem like a fan, what in your estimation is the best of the best from the later stuff. Things are that are perhaps up there with things like the early klavierstuck, gruppen, zeitmasse, kontakte or mantra? Thanks in advance.

O.k., I'll give a few suggestions of single CDs, since you expressed budget concerns before:

1. Oktophonie (CD 41), an impressive piece of electronic music.

2. Welt-Parlament (CD 51), a densely polyphonic a cappella work that has had spectacular success winning over several skeptical listeners on a precursor of this message board.

3. Two CDs from the Klang cycle, CD 83 (Himmelfahrt, for synthesizer, soprano and tenor) and CD 84 (Freude for two harps).

4. A bit earlier (1974), but essential, is Inori, an orchestral work.

You can read about most of those works on my website,

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/stockhausenreviews.htm

Al

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12017
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2008, 09:27:56 AM »
PS, for those who haven't seen it, this month's Artforum has tributes from Robin Maconie, Morton Subotnick, and Björk here.  (The print edition has more, from Pierre-Laurent Aimard, Maryanne Amacher, Irvine Arditti and La Monte Young.)

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2008, 09:41:33 AM »
have you heard the 24 layer/stranded cosmic pulses?
ive read some stuff on it, but it's hard to come by audio samples of it...
same with oktophonie, http://www.stockhausen41.com/

also if these are similar (or different enough) to the electronic music from Friday Light??

Cosmic Pulses is terrific, but I did not initially recommend it because I am not sure of its immediate accessibility (it did grab me personally upon first listening though). Cosmic Pulses, Oktophonie and the electronic music from Friday are very different from each other.

The nice thing about the Cosmic Pulses CD is that in the second half the 24 layers are "unraveled" by introducing the first 1 and a half minutes of each one separately.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 09:43:53 AM by Al Moritz »

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #99 on: March 05, 2008, 09:47:22 AM »
PS, for those who haven't seen it, this month's Artforum has tributes from Robin Maconie, Morton Subotnick, and Björk here.  (The print edition has more, from Pierre-Laurent Aimard, Maryanne Amacher, Irvine Arditti and La Monte Young.)

--Bruce

Thanks for that link, Bruce.