Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 342068 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CRCulver

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 477
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #260 on: December 15, 2010, 04:15:00 PM »
Yep, colour me surprised.

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #261 on: December 17, 2010, 10:50:26 PM »
Currently listening to the 1st hour of the Klang cycle & loving it ..
Himmelfahrt (Ascension) (2004-05) for synthesizer, soprano and tenor ...
(some samples posted below for curious folks)



HIMMELFAHRT (Ascension) Bar 1 Moment 1 2'19"( 4.3 MB high end .mp3)
HIMMELFAHRT (Ascension) Bar 119 Moment 8 1' 00" (1.9 MB high end .mp3)
HIMMELFAHRT (Ascension) Bar 414 Moment 24 5'32" (5.1 MB high end .mp3)

My first reaction is "demented fairground music". Is that fair? After all, didn't he write the piece to be played whilst walking through the town? He certainly makes a case for the synth as an honest instrument.

btw- those covers are addicting. I could see breaking many banks!

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #262 on: December 18, 2010, 03:55:02 AM »
My first reaction is "demented fairground music". Is that fair?

Calling it that would have never occurred to me but I can see how you got there--that awful, horrendous, synthesizer sound (sorry James) does make it sound like warped fairground music :D.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #263 on: December 24, 2010, 05:02:03 PM »
Initially I had the same impression of the synth sounds in Himmelfahrt as Petrarch, now I love them, just as James does. For my first impressions and change of mind, see also:

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/himmelfahrt.htm

Heading:
"The sound – tempo melodies"

In fact, now I love the synth sounds even more than when I wrote that article.

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #264 on: December 27, 2010, 02:19:50 AM »
Initially I had the same impression of the synth sounds in Himmelfahrt as Petrarch, now I love them, just as James does. For my first impressions and change of mind, see also:

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/himmelfahrt.htm

Heading:
"The sound – tempo melodies"

In fact, now I love the synth sounds even more than when I wrote that article.

It's a totally different approach. I can understand the need for a sound or timbre that puts in evidence what is going on in the music--in this case, mostly pitch organization along time. I'm still not convinced the timbre used was the best or most interesting one: The dynamics are not that varied; the colour is pretty much uniform; there isn't that much 'life' in each note; and note complexes tend to be a jumble. Compare this with e.g. Natürliche Dauern, where the piano responds to the variety of touch with a wide dynamic range; colour goes from soft to hard, from coarse-grained to smooth and from dark to bright; sustained notes reward us with their inner activity; and chords enmesh each constituent note in a contour of harmonics and beats. Maybe Himmelfahrt will grow on me; but it will never be a piece I will admire sonically or timbrally.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #265 on: December 31, 2010, 07:55:48 AM »
i LOVE the sound Stockhausen's synth player uses on the disc ... i guess in the future other classical synthesizer players (?) will interpret with an individual 'tone/setting' that may be more to your liking (if premittable); the synthesizer itself gives the piece much character & electrified juice & power & sustain .. that you can't get with acoustic instruments ... there is dynamic contrast in Ascension, from loud to much softer, from lots of activity to stillness etc, but the piece isn't about dynamics & color and doesn't overemphasize those often confusing & frivolous elements; the piece has so much more going on   ... heck, Bach's music had terse dynamics, doesn't hinder the music ... and none of it's contrapuntal textures are 'jumbled' to my ear... you can clearly delineate and hear what's going on with both hands ... especially at home on the stereo, he's panned the left hand to the left speaker and right to right speaker ... the voices seem to enter more dead center in the audio spectrum. It's a remarkable & unique piece of *music* ... one that grows more attractive to me with each listen.

I understand all that; as I said, perhaps it will grow on me, but not on sonic or timbral grounds. The music (sic) could probably have been better served, or provide a more rewarding, fulfilling and complete experience, if he had used analogue sounds, not to mention acoustic instruments. That sort of 'colour' just doesn't work for me. It's just like enjoying the Goldberg Variations but not liking the sound of the harpsichord (which is not my case, note).
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Offline Al Moritz

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #266 on: December 31, 2010, 07:59:22 AM »
... and none of it's contrapuntal textures are 'jumbled' to my ear... you can clearly delineate and hear what's going on with both hands ... especially at home on the stereo, he's panned the left hand to the left speaker and right to right speaker ... the voices seem to enter more dead center in the audio spectrum. It's a remarkable & unique piece of *music* ... one that grows more attractive to me with each listen.

Indeed. Some thoughts from my article:

Certainly, a searching quality is found in the gestural language of much modern music, including – to a certain extent – in Stockhausen’s own GRUPPEN, which just like HIMMELFAHRT features irregular polyphony with strands in different simultaneous tempi. Yet in the newer work this character of modern gestural language is fused with the more melodic approach. The overall effect is that there are melodic lines that "feel" or probe their way through musical space, to an extent that is quite unusual – especially in music that is not slow, as is the case here.

This is what I believe makes HIMMELFAHRT unique: it features a searching melodic polyphony that in a comparable form I cannot recall having found anywhere else.

Due to the strong fluctuations in rhythm upon each presentation, the musical flow of the extended melodic lines is highly variable and uneven. The unevenness is compounded by the occurrence of different simultaneous tempi and rhythms in the two keyboard parts. Trying to follow in detail this irregular polyphony of independent voices can be challenging. However, I prefer this detailed listening approach in order to enjoy the individual contours of melody in their polyphonic context. Even though I have listened to the music many times, each new exposure to this work has for a long time been an aural "rollercoaster ride" and is still demanding, the limited musical forces employed notwithstanding; the musical complexity is further enhanced by the large-scale processes (see below). For me the listening experience is one of the most taxing, but also one of the most exhilarating ones that Stockhausen’s complex oeuvre offers.

A comparison with Bach’s Art of the Fugue shows how far the music of HIMMELFAHRT is removed from the regular pulse and evenness of musical flow of the polyphony of that early masterpiece. Though both melodic polyphonies are of extraordinary quality, they are worlds apart from each other.

One of my favorite "concerts at home" has become GRUPPEN followed by HIMMELFAHRT. It highlights both similarities and differences in concept, as well as development and continued originality of Stockhausen’s music, and offers a complex listening experience throughout.

Offline MDL

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 915
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #267 on: January 03, 2011, 04:57:24 AM »
The entire 1972 Momente is now up on YouTube in two parts.

Is John11inch a poster here?

Don't you just love YouTube?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZdtGa7PosM&playnext=1&list=PLA3807BD64620134D&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6xlF7OmiI8&feature=related
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 05:05:00 AM by MDL »

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #268 on: January 03, 2011, 06:09:19 AM »
Don't you just love YouTube?

I just found that there are a couple of excerpts of Strahlen. Now that is interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di75q48J8FM
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #269 on: January 03, 2011, 08:41:16 AM »
I just found that there are a couple of excerpts of Strahlen. Now that is interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di75q48J8FM

Woah, that induced a flashback! ???

Offline MDL

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 915
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #270 on: January 04, 2011, 06:57:37 AM »
I just found that there are a couple of excerpts of Strahlen. Now that is interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di75q48J8FM

?!?!?!

Are you suggesting that Strahlen, which sounds like something Karlheinz might have dashed off during a tea break, is a greater work than his masterpiece (IMHO), Momente? Whoa, that there's fightin' talk.

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #271 on: January 23, 2011, 06:20:56 PM »
ok, well I'm coming to an impasse with KS.

To update: I have

1) KlavS I-XI (SONY); with Mikrophonie I & II

2) Helikopter Quartett

3) Gruppen (DG)

I had just seen that Koch cd with Zyklus, Refrain, & Kontakte (w/Wambach) for cheap, but missed it, and went to listen to those pieces,...and said, ok, I can wait for now.



Two pieces I really liked from YouTube were Inori and Ylem. Of course they're only avail from SVerlag.



I guess my point is is that James is whetting my appetite, but the amazon discography leaves me only wanting Mantra and the new Gruppen(ColLegno). I just don't see myself ordering from the site in the near future.

Maybe the more KS I hear, the more Cagean he seems to me,... sort of like an anti-Cage (like William Shatner and his evil twin, haha!). He's obviously smart,... but then he marries that intellect to,... what boils down to me as some kind of Scientology, or Swedenborg, or Urantia/Luciferian,... you know what I'm talking about,... which, to me, almost takes it into "BOB" country, you know, that maestro of "SLACK"?

Y'know what I'm getting at?


Anyhow, I might just have to spend some more time with the YouTube. I know that there's nothing really too exciting avail on amazon, so, I might as well just check stuff out at my leisure?

The two works which fit my bill were the two from my fav period: 1972-4 (5-6)... Inori and Ylem. And Mantra.

Offline MDL

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 915
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #272 on: January 24, 2011, 12:53:05 AM »


and the new Gruppen(ColLegno).


I'm having trouble tracking this down. It's not on Amazon UK and each time try to find the Col Legno site (which I've browsed many times in the past), I either get malware warnings or get directed to some generic site. What's going on? Can somebody post a link to the new Gruppen? Ta.

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #273 on: January 24, 2011, 05:15:11 AM »
I'm having trouble tracking this down. It's not on Amazon UK and each time try to find the Col Legno site (which I've browsed many times in the past), I either get malware warnings or get directed to some generic site. What's going on? Can somebody post a link to the new Gruppen? Ta.

I don't see any info on Gruppen on the Col Legno site. I do see that they have two new Wolfgang Mitterer releases... Yum!
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #274 on: January 24, 2011, 07:36:04 PM »
snyprrr ..

On amazon.com try to pick up a copy of the excellent ECM album ...



Luzifers Tanz (1983)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DOmq3mOJod8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/DOmq3mOJod8</a>

Oktophonie (1990/91)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qcvTUNWYtW8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qcvTUNWYtW8</a>

Cosmic Pulses (2007)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/19D4TYkR4pU" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/19D4TYkR4pU</a>

maybe I'll try that Albion one



So, what's up with that first clip? Is there a scandalous riot going on? I can't quite make it all out, but I assume the pic is from that? the whistling

The Cosmic Pulses I can accept as something Xenakis might have done (maybe given a few more years),... though, interesting X got so rigid rhythmically in the end, and KS has quite a spritely quality in his old age. Interesting compare.

I will go back and take a look at those Mantra replies earlier. That Naxos sounds pretty good, IMO.



There is definitely a 'noodling' aspect to some of his later music, I think I hear. Strange,... sounds like improv, but doesn't?

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11998
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #275 on: February 03, 2011, 02:53:34 PM »
Just posting this here, so Stockhausen-philes can make plans now. The NY Philharmonic will do this concert below as the finale of its 2011-2012 season, in the vast space of the Park Avenue Armory. Alan Gilbert assembled the program to focus on pieces that can be presented spatially in the hall.

New York Philharmonic
Alan Gilbert, conductor
Magnus Lindberg, conductor (Stockhausen)
Matthias Pintscher, conductor (Stockhausen)
Park Avenue Armory
June 29-30, 2012

Boulez: Rituel in memoriam Bruno Maderna
Mozart: Act I Finale from Don Giovanni
Stockhausen: Gruppen
Ives: The Unanswered Question

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline MDL

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 915
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #276 on: February 03, 2011, 03:17:33 PM »
Just posting this here, so Stockhausen-philes can make plans now. The NY Philharmonic will do this concert below as the finale of its 2011-2012 season, in the vast space of the Park Avenue Armory. Alan Gilbert assembled the program to focus on pieces that can be presented spatially in the hall.

New York Philharmonic
Alan Gilbert, conductor
Magnus Lindberg, conductor (Stockhausen)
Matthias Pintscher, conductor (Stockhausen)
Park Avenue Armory
June 29-30, 2012


Boulez: Rituel in memoriam Bruno Maderna
Mozart: Act I Finale from Don Giovanni
Stockhausen: Gruppen
Ives: The Unanswered Question

--Bruce

I've just got home from a difficult day and haven't got the time or energy to anything other than WOW!!!!!

Edit: So difficult, I lost the ability to cue and paste. And to say ditch the Mozart. (Oops, naughty.)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 03:19:10 PM by MDL »

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11998
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #277 on: February 03, 2011, 03:54:30 PM »
Well, come on down!  ;D 

(PS, I have no idea how they will do the seating, but here's the interior of the Armory--just a tad bigger than Avery Fisher Hall.  ;D)

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11998
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #278 on: February 14, 2011, 12:08:07 PM »
For any Stockhausen fans in the New York area, on March 2 at Merkin Concert Hall, flutist Patricia Spencer (of the Da Capo Chamber Players) will give the U.S. premiere of Bijou (1993), for flute and bass clarinet, with sound projection by Sam Pluta, and direction by Sherry Teitelbaum. More info here.

--Bruce

"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Sylph

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 229
  • Helen Regenstein Conductor Emeritus
    • NOAA's National Weather Service
  • Location: In the Pentagonal Garden
Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #279 on: February 14, 2011, 02:14:25 PM »
Could anybody tell me where can I find some information about his Fünf Sternzeichen and Fünf weitere Sternzeichen? A description or something like that? Orchestral versions.