Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 352157 times)

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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #700 on: May 02, 2014, 03:02:33 PM »
Is the "Klavierstuck IX" the one with that c.a.~150x repeated chord at the beginning? Or is that "KS X"? I like that chord (seriously, reminds me of the opening of Bartoks 1st PC), but not that much.

It's IX. The number of repetitions follows the Fibonacci sequence in reverse (IIRC), starting at 144. It's a great piece, and the chord is two stacked tritones, with the top one moved a semitone down (also IIRC). Although it is a great sounding chord (especially in the Kontarsky recording), it is a fantastic moment when the repetition is finally broken and the notes and rhythm are scattered. 
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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #701 on: May 06, 2014, 09:04:34 AM »
Jumppanen deftly handles unlikely pairing
By Matthew Guerrieri | Globe Correspondent   May 06, 2014


Paavali Jumppanen is exploring the music of Schumann and Stockhausen.

On Sunday at the Gardner Museum, Paavali Jumppanen, the excellent, ever-curious Finnish pianist, opened a multi-concert exploration of music of Robert Schumann and Karlheinz Stockhausen. Pairing the eager 19th-century Romanticist and the out-of-this-world 20th-century modernist is less mysterious than it might initially seem. In fact, one zeitgeist-y way to consider it might be via mysteries themselves: After all, Schumann’s career coincided with the origins of modern detective fiction, Stockhausen’s crucial modernist innovations with the emergence of its analytical outgrowth, the police procedural. Jumppanen made the case for the two as complementary sleuths, each, in their own ways, as interested in recounting the investigation as in reaching a conclusion.

In Stockhausen’s “Klavierstück IX,” the famous opening — a single chord, played 227 times — became a singular clue, examined from every angle, returning as corroboration (reappearing as the harmonic underpinning of a seemingly unrelated idea) or contradiction (prompting the whispered rustling of the piece’s coda). Jumppanen related the case with heightened exactness, crisp clarity that carried over into Schumann’s Op. 1 “Abegg” Variations. Plunging its gemütlich theme into dense, ringing virtuosity, Jumppanen raised the stakes throughout, to a Vivace finale that was a blur of figuration, giving the final, simple cadence an air of ironic closure — the case closed, if not resolved.

Stockhausen’s “Klavierstück XI” and Schumann’s Op. 20 “Humoreske” both deal in fragments — “Klavierstück XI” providing 19 sections that the performer then arranges into a choose-your-own-adventure chain, the “Humoreske” juxtaposing pieces of style and mood. Jumppanen’s first pass through the Stockhausen swung between violent, chaotic action and cool, gimlet-eyed contemplation: a web of suspects under constant reconsideration, events reappearing from new angles.

The Schumann, by contrast, became a classic tale of ratiocination, as Poe called them. Jumppanen’s athletic playing kept a bright light on the music’s physical realization. The score became self-evidence: fast sections all about speed, soft sections all about softness. Schumann’s fondness for repetition — phrases or sequences obsessively rerun out of sheer sonic delight — seemed to neutralize sectional contrasts, revealing some essential quality about each looped idea. Instead of an implied extramusical narrative, there was a lucid portrayal of compositional exploration.

Jumppanen closed with a second, somewhat less mercurial realization of “Klavierstück XI”: longer stretches of similar music, be it delicate or declamatory, more sense of narrative arrangement. But, even given a more familiar formal arc, the work’s open-endedness still created the sense of unresolved secrets. Sometimes, even after an arrest, mysteries remain.


Are they in need of a new reviewer? If that's all it takes, please, sign me up! Even I can do that, no?


"... and so, Stockhausen's cabbage dumplings worked well with Schumann's sweet-tart pastries, coming together beneath the waft of their mingled juices."

or

"Stockhausen and Schumann together deftly soon fragrance gravy crystals"

or

"potatoe... the 'e'e is silent, like in the paring of Sto..."

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #702 on: May 06, 2014, 09:51:29 AM »
Are they in need of a new reviewer? If that's all it takes, please, sign me up! Even I can do that, no?


"... and so, Stockhausen's cabbage dumplings worked well with Schumann's sweet-tart pastries, coming together beneath the waft of their mingled juices."

or

"Stockhausen and Schumann together deftly soon fragrance gravy crystals"

or

"potatoe... the 'e'e is silent, like in the paring of Sto..."
snyprrr, start a column! Please! I'd subscribe.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Rex

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #703 on: May 06, 2014, 06:57:23 PM »
James - after months of regularly visiting your page for updates on Stockhausen - I decided it was about time I registered just to give you my heartfelt thanks for what you provide here. I'm somewhat amazed at the patience you show with the petty sniping that seems to be irresistible for some of your readers. Like terriers snapping and snarling at the heels of a great dane.
I have to say that the list of composers "that I am currently listening to" are those that I admire above all others in the great history of music. One thing that marks them out is the ability their music has to be ever fresh and to continually unfold more and deeper meaning. I first heard Stockhausen when I was a young lad developing a passion for music in school - and I was blown away by the power and beauty of his music. Still, some 40+ years later Stockhausen remains a composer for whom I have the deepest admiration. Like Bach, like Monteverdi, like Beethoven, the music of Stockhausen continues to move me profoundly by the brilliance of its compositional structure and the sometimes wondrous beauty he has created. All I can suggest to people who think Stockhausen was less than the genius he clearly was, is . . . listen harder and more carefully - some day you might get it, and you will be glad when you do!
But back to the main point. Thank you James - you work is very appreciated!

Offline North Star

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #704 on: May 07, 2014, 03:52:13 AM »
James - after months of regularly visiting your page for updates on Stockhausen - I decided it was about time I registered just to give you my heartfelt thanks for what you provide here. I'm somewhat amazed at the patience you show with the petty sniping that seems to be irresistible for some of your readers. Like terriers snapping and snarling at the heels of a great dane.
I have to say that the list of composers "that I am currently listening to" are those that I admire above all others in the great history of music. One thing that marks them out is the ability their music has to be ever fresh and to continually unfold more and deeper meaning. I first heard Stockhausen when I was a young lad developing a passion for music in school - and I was blown away by the power and beauty of his music. Still, some 40+ years later Stockhausen remains a composer for whom I have the deepest admiration. Like Bach, like Monteverdi, like Beethoven, the music of Stockhausen continues to move me profoundly by the brilliance of its compositional structure and the sometimes wondrous beauty he has created. All I can suggest to people who think Stockhausen was less than the genius he clearly was, is . . . listen harder and more carefully - some day you might get it, and you will be glad when you do!
But back to the main point. Thank you James - you work is very appreciated!
Welcome to the forum, Rex!
I can't say Stockhausen is a favourite of mine (I've liked some things more than others of the few works I've heard) - but the others you mention certainly are.
I hope you will post more, and not only in the Spaceship. :)
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Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #705 on: May 07, 2014, 04:31:20 AM »
James - after months of regularly visiting your page for updates on Stockhausen - I decided it was about time I registered just to give you my heartfelt thanks for what you provide here. I'm somewhat amazed at the patience you show with the petty sniping that seems to be irresistible for some of your readers. Like terriers snapping and snarling at the heels of a great dane.
I have to say that the list of composers "that I am currently listening to" are those that I admire above all others in the great history of music. One thing that marks them out is the ability their music has to be ever fresh and to continually unfold more and deeper meaning. I first heard Stockhausen when I was a young lad developing a passion for music in school - and I was blown away by the power and beauty of his music. Still, some 40+ years later Stockhausen remains a composer for whom I have the deepest admiration. Like Bach, like Monteverdi, like Beethoven, the music of Stockhausen continues to move me profoundly by the brilliance of its compositional structure and the sometimes wondrous beauty he has created. All I can suggest to people who think Stockhausen was less than the genius he clearly was, is . . . listen harder and more carefully - some day you might get it, and you will be glad when you do!
But back to the main point. Thank you James - you work is very appreciated!
As I've said before, I don't musically enjoy Stockhausen, but I find him and his ideas very interesting and I occasionally will give something of his a listen out of interest. That being said, I have to agree with Rex (welcome, by the way!) in thanking James. When I first joined, I made a comment indicating that he was "academic" (along the lines with the self-admitted academic composer Babbitt) and James (politely) said that it seems like it sometimes but it really isn't academic music and that he follows no rules -- and I actually agree now. While I don't enjoy the music any more, I am glad to hear it in a different (and more "correct") light. It's really amazing how much you can learn, regardless of ability, if you just open your mind and try to minimize any preconceived notions.

Rex, I hope you stick around. We need more regular (and enthusiastic) posters on 20th-century music!

As for me, I'm a Ligeti guy. ;D
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

snyprrr

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #706 on: May 07, 2014, 08:52:56 AM »
James - after months of regularly visiting your page for updates on Stockhausen - I decided it was about time I registered just to give you my heartfelt thanks for what you provide here. I'm somewhat amazed at the patience you show with the petty sniping that seems to be irresistible for some of your readers. Like terriers snapping and snarling at the heels of a great dane.
I have to say that the list of composers "that I am currently listening to" are those that I admire above all others in the great history of music. One thing that marks them out is the ability their music has to be ever fresh and to continually unfold more and deeper meaning. I first heard Stockhausen when I was a young lad developing a passion for music in school - and I was blown away by the power and beauty of his music. Still, some 40+ years later Stockhausen remains a composer for whom I have the deepest admiration. Like Bach, like Monteverdi, like Beethoven, the music of Stockhausen continues to move me profoundly by the brilliance of its compositional structure and the sometimes wondrous beauty he has created. All I can suggest to people who think Stockhausen was less than the genius he clearly was, is . . . listen harder and more carefully - some day you might get it, and you will be glad when you do!
But back to the main point. Thank you James - you work is very appreciated!

BANE HIM!

BANE HIM!!


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Seriously, it's all in fun... I'm sure...

I'm sure it is

All in fun

uh

What was the question?

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #707 on: May 08, 2014, 09:52:29 AM »
Hi!
I found this forum just recently (unbelievable that I'm not already a member...) and been trying to read up on this Stockhausen thread.  81 pages!  wow!  Well , it may be awhile before I catch up, but in any case, hello and I'd like to share a new blog I just started devoted to analyzing Stockhausen's music. 

Stockhausen - Sounds in Space:

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/


I've done 3 pieces so far, and my goal is to do a blog post on every work.  This will of course never be completed, but heck, aim high.  So far I've done Microphonie I, Mikrophonie II and Carre.  I'm planning to skip around (starting from Chore for Doris seemed a bit boring) so maybe I'll do one on something from Licht next....or not.  Anyways, for some of the people here, they will be nothing new, but I think I was able to add some nice pictures at least :)

Oh yeah, I did a Daily Beethoven blog http://lvbandmore.blogspot.com/a couple years ago.  365 posts in 1 year.  Of course being unemployed at the time made that project a bit easier.....


Offline Rex

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #708 on: May 08, 2014, 02:17:28 PM »
Glad to provide a pleasant surprise James  :).  Yes, I'm reasonably familiar with Robin Maconie. I have 2 of his books, attended a lecture he gave on the Helicopter String Quartet a couple of years or more ago, and raised an eyebrow or 2 following his recent contributions in the Stockhausen Forum.

Thanks North Star and EigenUser for your welcomes.

I will check out your site uatu.

Offline Cato

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #709 on: May 08, 2014, 02:41:55 PM »
Welcome to Rex and Uatu (any relation to Klaatu0:)  )  not only to the Spaceship, but to GMG in general!

Stockhausen (especially in his later works) can be an acquired taste, but it can be acquired!   ;)   Whether one agrees with what one hears depends on many factors.

Yes, James is a one-man Stockhausen advertising agency!

For your consideration: whether the music world has missed a fun, dadaistic element in Stockhausen's music, and whether Stockhausen (similar to Dali) might not have been pulling a good number of stiff legs in his later years!  :o
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Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #710 on: May 08, 2014, 02:51:28 PM »
Hi!
I found this forum just recently (unbelievable that I'm not already a member...) and been trying to read up on this Stockhausen thread.  81 pages!  wow!  Well , it may be awhile before I catch up, but in any case, hello and I'd like to share a new blog I just started devoted to analyzing Stockhausen's music. 

Stockhausen - Sounds in Space:

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/


I've done 3 pieces so far, and my goal is to do a blog post on every work.  This will of course never be completed, but heck, aim high.  So far I've done Microphonie I, Mikrophonie II and Carre.  I'm planning to skip around (starting from Chore for Doris seemed a bit boring) so maybe I'll do one on something from Licht next....or not.  Anyways, for some of the people here, they will be nothing new, but I think I was able to add some nice pictures at least :)

Oh yeah, I did a Daily Beethoven blog http://lvbandmore.blogspot.com/a couple years ago.  365 posts in 1 year.  Of course being unemployed at the time made that project a bit easier.....
This is really good stuff. I am reading through the "Carre" entry now. I'll have to get a biography on Stockhausen from the library at some point in the future. Any recommendations to keep in mind?
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #711 on: May 09, 2014, 05:24:45 AM »
Thanks for the Welcomes and checking out my Stockhausen posts.  It provides motivation to do more. 

EigenUser, as far as a good biography I can't think of a definitive one.  At this point they are all out of date, and their might not be one for a long time since Stockhausen's "group" seems to be very hermetic.  I would love it it Kathinka or Suzanne would write one, but they are so much a part of the Stockhausen "myth" that those would probably be kind of 1-sided. 

Robin Maconie has a couple books, but he also editorializes alot.  His new Stockhausen book "Other Planets" is thick, but he goes off on wild tangents.  I was reading his entry on part of Dienstag and he spends 1 paragraph on the music and 2 pages on the black metal band Burzum.  However his earlier book "The Works of Karlheinz Stockhausen" is the best for analyzing Stockhausen's music.  I use that often for my blog.  Unfortunately it's also out of print.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #712 on: May 09, 2014, 05:42:23 AM »
For your consideration: whether the music world has missed a fun, dadaistic element in Stockhausen's music, and whether Stockhausen (similar to Dali) might not have been pulling a good number of stiff legs in his later years!  :o

I think of Stockhausen's intentions as being good-humoured, self-deprecating (Momente text uses catcalls his earlier pieces received), and purposefully weird (almost any staging of Licht).  The ending to Donnerstag has a staged "strike" by the wind band, and the director of La Scala and Stockhausen have a fake argument.  Even in the electronic collage Hymnen (Anthems) he includes a recording of himself and the engineer talking about how the next part should go and whether or not it's OK to include the Nazi anthem (!).

I found the operas too weird for my tastes for a long time, and then I started being exposed to Italian B movies of the 70's and I could see where he was coming from.  Also see "Barbarella". 
http://youtu.be/0Xo6FaypcpY

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #713 on: May 09, 2014, 12:23:46 PM »
This is really good stuff. I am reading through the "Carre" entry now. I'll have to get a biography on Stockhausen from the library at some point in the future. Any recommendations to keep in mind?

Not strictly I biography, but Stockhausen on Music is such an easy reading that it should be read by anyone delving into the composer.

//p
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #714 on: May 09, 2014, 01:34:01 PM »
Not strictly I biography, but Stockhausen on Music is such an easy reading that it should be read by anyone delving into the composer.

I have that coming in the mail any day!  Actually some are transcriptions I think of the 70s lectures.  They can all be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWVWhS48b0JCLu-w33-Jvb_weVzoDNbcn

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #715 on: May 09, 2014, 01:37:17 PM »
That is the ending of the staged version of the 3rd scene of Samstag. Itself a truly amazing multi-layered standalone orchestral concerto divided into 10 groups. Musically, LICHT is just awesome .. and it can be appreciated on this level alone if your not into all of the mystical religious synchronicities etc.. KS does provide options for much of LICHT to function just as music, and on that level alone much of it is successful.

Yeah Samstag and Donnerstag were the first 2 Licht operas I heard, and I still like those 2 the most.  The Farewell (Abschied) in Samstag is a little bit tough to get through tho (chanting monk music) but yeah, the wind band concerto is AWESOME - like Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra times TEN!

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #716 on: May 09, 2014, 03:23:42 PM »
I have that coming in the mail any day!  Actually some are transcriptions I think of the 70s lectures.  They can all be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWVWhS48b0JCLu-w33-Jvb_weVzoDNbcn

Yes, Maconie transcribed liberally from the films of the lectures. Ubuweb also has the videos, and IIRC in higher quality than YT.
//p
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #717 on: May 09, 2014, 03:27:03 PM »
The Farewell (Abschied) in Samstag is a little bit tough to get through tho (chanting monk music)

Luzifers-Abschied is one of the (few) bits I truly enjoy in Licht.
//p
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Offline torut

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #718 on: May 09, 2014, 04:28:19 PM »
Not strictly I biography, but Stockhausen on Music is such an easy reading that it should be read by anyone delving into the composer.

That is a nice, relatively short book that I remember having been absorbed in reading.

Texte zur Musik Band 1 (a collection of papers written by Stockhausen) is a more academic book (also not a biography) that is a bit difficult for me. I still have not finished reading it.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #719 on: May 09, 2014, 04:50:35 PM »
Texte zur Musik Band 1 (a collection of papers written by Stockhausen) is a more academic book (also not a biography) that is a bit difficult for me. I still have not finished reading it.

Well, the Texte are his own collected writings (I have vols. 1-4, since they correspond to the period that most interests me) and interestingly you can find a lot of that content in the liner notes of the SV CDs. It is as technical and "dry" as it gets with Stockhausen, especially given his propensity to abuse and misuse what is otherwise rigorous scientific and technical terminology.

Maconie's Stockhausen on Music does have the merit of opening with an interview that covers some biographical details.
//p
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