Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 352426 times)

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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #720 on: May 09, 2014, 05:10:44 PM »
Well, the Texte are his own collected writings (I have vols. 1-4, since they correspond to the period that most interests me) and interestingly you can find a lot of that content in the liner notes of the SV CDs. It is as technical and "dry" as it gets with Stockhausen, especially given his propensity to abuse and misuse what is otherwise rigorous scientific and technical terminology.

The Texte are all in German, right?  No English translations for those?  O/w I would be interested in getting those.

Oh BTW - Dienstag's Gruss review is up on my blog.  WAR never sounded so heavenly....
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/05/opus-60-dienstags-gruss.html

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #721 on: May 09, 2014, 05:12:45 PM »
Luzifers-Abschied is one of the (few) bits I truly enjoy in Licht.

Really?  That interests me.  How do you approach it?  To me without the visual part it just seems very static and I feel like I'm missing out on something (which I AM).

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #722 on: May 09, 2014, 06:00:43 PM »
Totally agree.  I remember buying Der Jahreslauf on LP and it was one of the most entertaining things I'd heard in a long while.  Yeah I saw on the calendar that it's being mounted in Japan...tempted.  Do you know if it's being done in the original setting with a Gagaku orchestra?  Because as far as I know that version has never been released on vinyl or CD (or 8-track...). 

I missed Oktophonie as well as Michael's Riese (and Himmels Tur I think).  I did make Gruppen tho with Alan Gilbert.  I saw Gesang and Kontakte a couple years before that.  These days I just don't do shows anymore...tickets are soooo expensive and the performances are usually too quiet for my tastes.  Gruppen disappointed because there was no electric guitar (I think they used a harpsichord instead).  Very disappointed, as I'm a guitarist.  If they mounted a Licht production I would probably go tho.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #723 on: May 10, 2014, 03:44:57 AM »
The Texte are all in German, right?  No English translations for those?  O/w I would be interested in getting those.

Right. They have mentioned english translations are in the works, but that announcement has been out there since the late 90s.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #724 on: May 10, 2014, 03:49:37 AM »
Really?  That interests me.  How do you approach it?  To me without the visual part it just seems very static and I feel like I'm missing out on something (which I AM).

It helps to follow the unfolding of the text and to keep in mind that Samstag is a gradual opening up of space, culminating in the Abschied. I have no particular approach to it.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #725 on: May 10, 2014, 03:59:56 AM »
Der Jahreslauf ... Michaels Reise

I much prefer the version of Der Jahreslauf outside Dienstag and the original Michaels Reise to the one in Donnerstag. To my ears, the revisions and changes done upon integrating those works into the Licht operas diminished their interest.
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #726 on: May 10, 2014, 05:21:53 AM »
They are actually mounting 2 versions according to the official site. "The Japanese Version", which I assume is for Gagaku orchestra (hopefully it gets recorded, like Michaelion was recorded during the Mittwoch aus LICHT rehearsals). And the version for modern orchestra.

wow - OK, now VERY tempted....

Quote
I saw one of these Armoury performances on the web and it did have an electric guitar.

I had a perfect seat equidistant and I didn't see or hear one.  Maybe that day it was subbed for harpsichord, or maybe it was just a terrible sounding guitar way in the back.  The SV version has an awesome guitar sound!  Alas.  Now I'll have to look for that web broadcast.

I like both versions of Der Jahreslauf.  I guess I tend to give KS the benefit of the doubt alot of times, but in time my opinion might change.  I've only heard the new version once.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #727 on: May 10, 2014, 05:28:39 AM »
the soloists version of Michael's Journey (ECM) to all others

That was the one I had in mind. The version he brought into Donnerstag loses quite a bit with the replacement of instrumental parts with synthesizers.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #728 on: May 10, 2014, 06:40:22 AM »
That was the one I had in mind. The version he brought into Donnerstag loses quite a bit with the replacement of instrumental parts with synthesizers.

I mixed the two: The replacement of instrumental parts with synthesizers was done in Der Jahreslauf. Compare e.g. the duo for harpsichord and guitar. In the Dienstag version it sounds positively awful.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #729 on: May 10, 2014, 08:55:01 AM »
You nailed the section and I positively agree with you regarding it, mix is loud and in your face .. perhaps not as poised and nuanced as the original; but this wart is not enough for me to totally deplore the recording were the performance is overall very strong & exciting. And I like how this Act on that recording transitions into the 2nd Act.

It does make me think about the options (KS loved options) available to performers when mounting it though, for Dienstag does it always have to be synthesizers for that duo (for instance), can real instruments be used if available .. and also the technology has evolved, wondering how it would sound on the best the 21st century has to offer if rendered today.


The instrument list specifies actual guitar, but synthesizer harpsichord. The only real instruments listed are the piccolos, the saxophones and the guitar (aside from percussion). However, listening carefully to the recording, the saxophones also sound very artificial. Even though they are playing in a register that makes their timbre difficult to ascertain, to my ears it still sounds better in the original setting.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #730 on: May 10, 2014, 09:19:30 AM »
and I do not mind the use of synthesizers, as I'm a big fan of them

Oh I have nothing against synthesizers, quite the opposite. But I hate those cheesy sounds.
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Online ritter

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #731 on: May 10, 2014, 09:29:58 AM »
In terms of recordings, I prefer the soloists version of Michael's Journey (ECM) to all others ..
I too am a big fan of this recording, which I bought about a year ago and played over and over for some time...This downscaled version of Michaels Reise is probably more suited for home listening, I suppose.

Concerning Donnerstag, I have a question that perhaps someone can help me with. A section I find fascinating is Michaels Abschied; hearing this on Piazza della Scala when leaving the theatre, or from the rooftops at Covent Garden, must have been quite an experience!

In the DG / SV recording of Donnerstag, though, it lasts only ca. 10 minutes when, as I understand it, the music should go on for much longer than that.Is this an abridged version of the farewell?

There's a CD on the Deux-Elles label of Jon Wallace playing the Abschied (dubbing himself to play the different parts). Is this a longer version of the piece? The CD has a running time of 57 minutes, and has three other Works (not by Stockhausen) as fillers, but I can't find timings for individual tracks.


ritter
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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #732 on: May 10, 2014, 02:00:44 PM »
Thanks for your comment, James! It seems, then, as if the CD I mentioned doesn't really add much to the enjoyment of Michaels Abschied (at least in the sense I meant)...
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #733 on: May 10, 2014, 06:12:11 PM »
This is very cool, you can view the full score (Orch 1) to Carré here.  View full screen.  Now how do I save this to my computer....?

http://www.universaledition.com/blogdetail/items/stockhausen-carre-orchestra-i

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #734 on: May 10, 2014, 07:07:38 PM »
This is very cool, you can view the full score (Orch 1) to Carré here.  View full screen.  Now how do I save this to my computer....?

http://www.universaledition.com/blogdetail/items/stockhausen-carre-orchestra-i
Nice! Stockhausen scores are always interesting to look through. He often has very detailed explanations with photos (though, not in the one you posted).

I still haven't heard any work of his that I actually like, but I love 20th-century music history so I find it very interesting and I have been listening to some of his work nonetheless.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #735 on: May 11, 2014, 05:58:22 AM »
Try Tierkreis ..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/718J9pmDFZM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/718J9pmDFZM</a>
Thanks! This is the only thing so far that I actually appreciate on a musical level as opposed to a historical one.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #736 on: May 11, 2014, 10:10:07 AM »
I'd recommend this one too in addition to Erwachen:

Freude for 2 Harps and 2 Fairies  ;)
http://youtu.be/WoBsPUdBOT0

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #737 on: May 11, 2014, 10:43:29 AM »
I don't know if EigenUser is familiar with Michael's Journey around the World, but I think that this piece (particularly, the "soloists version" mentioned in previous posts) may help him change his perception of KS's music.  :)



Regards,



« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 10:46:34 AM by ritter »
ritter
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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #738 on: May 11, 2014, 04:08:06 PM »
Try Tierkreis ..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/718J9pmDFZM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/718J9pmDFZM</a>
http://youtu.be/HwSKkKrUzUk

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #739 on: May 11, 2014, 05:04:40 PM »
I'd recommend this one too in addition to Erwachen:

Freude for 2 Harps and 2 Fairies  ;)
http://youtu.be/WoBsPUdBOT0
I've heard "Freude" before, actually. I didn't really care for it. The harp writing was beautiful, but I'm not really sold on the theatrics (singing, dress, etc.).

I will take a look at "Michael's Journey...". I'm curious as to why it would change my perspective on Stockhausen. What should I look (listen) for? Anything in particular?
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".