Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 347714 times)

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Offline Rex

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #820 on: June 02, 2014, 02:08:01 AM »
Quote
Lorimer ended up not playing the piece KS dedicated to him (Spiral) so maybe he felt "turned off"?

Thanks for that link Uatu - I enjoyed that little window into KS' history!

I can imagine Spiral would be reasonably scary to play with classical guitar without considerable experience in that kind of improvisation - especially solo in front of an audience - although Stockhausen would have been a great person to learn from. Did Michael Lorimer ever venture into the world of electric guitar?

Reading the interview Lorimer sounds like he never got turned off the music though.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #821 on: June 02, 2014, 05:24:23 PM »
Not sure about Lorimer and electric, based on his webpage he seems mostly classical, but I should probably check.  The weird thing tho is that if KS was inspired by Lorimer to write Spiral, why is it that it has no guitar-specific element at all?  Come to think of it that could be taken as a mild insult....

Anyways, my article on SPIRAL is done

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/06/opus-27-spiral.html

There's a big section on the score instructions but frankly none of it really makes a difference when listening.  You'll either like it...or HATE it.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #822 on: June 03, 2014, 04:28:46 AM »
Nice entry. I certainly would like to check out that Vetter version. POLE (duo) & EXPO (trio) fit here too .. both recently released through KS's label. The Ensemble-Modern performed SPIRAL earlier in the year. And performers use computers now when doing these.

Thanks!
I almost pulled the trigger on EXPO on my last order - the samples are really entertaining.  But now, after listening to so many versions of SPIRAL I'm kind of burned out on shortwave "intuitive" music .;)
I wonder how Ensemble Modern's SPIRAL went?  Any idea what instruments?  As far as the computers, I discovered that you can actually tune in shortwave signals thru the internet at "virtual remote control" SW stations.  Pretty neat.  I actually have a Grundig SW radio and when I first played around with it I felt like I was playing the beginning to HYMNEN, haha.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #823 on: June 03, 2014, 03:19:10 PM »
I'm with you James on this, maybe even more critical. 

About 20 years ago when I was a member of a performing ensemble doing improvisatory music, the "plus minus" and text stuff was really attractive - partly because of the new sounds that were allowed, but also in large part because you could literally play a garbage can and call it music.  It was so EASY!  :P  In retrospect alot of what I did back then was youthful junk - fun, but pretty much self-indulgent rubbish.  Now KS himself accused most improvisors of playing rubbish, so it's not as if he wasn't aware of this danger.  But I guess his own group somehow pleased him enough that he was inspired to go pretty far with it.  Or maybe the opposite - he realized it was NOT sounding so good and then wrote MANTRA!  Anyways, it's very creative conceptually but it easily abused. 

Also at this point in my life playing some kind of interpretive textural thing is just not that satisfying compared to playing, say a Debussy song.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #824 on: June 04, 2014, 03:25:18 AM »
But during that period of graphic scores & intuitive texts came the first masterwork of truly spectral music .. Stimmung.

Right, right.  And speaking of STIMMUNG I just got my S-V edition of STERNKLANG a couple days ago.  Having read up on it a bit more since the first time I heard it in the early 90s, I now realize that it's an expanded STIMMUNG for 5 groups....  I should have noticed that before!  This is also one of those times when the ritual words don't bother me, since they are integrated into the music, instead of just shouted out.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #825 on: June 04, 2014, 11:03:53 AM »
I don't care for Sternklang at all. Granted I've never experienced it live in a park (as intended), only that recording .. but I'm not sure it would change my view much.

I like the group solos.  The parts where it's kind of swimming around all 5 groups less so.  It's not one to put on very often, but in the right mood...I actually prefer it to STIMMUNG, probably because I like the vintage synth sounds.  Pretty hard to believe that KS was not a potsmoker tho considering this work.  It's almost a parody of hippie music.  But I enjoy as background music to doing chores, since it's nature is that you don't really have to pay attention to it.  Sort of.

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #826 on: June 04, 2014, 11:31:58 AM »
I like the group solos.  The parts where it's kind of swimming around all 5 groups less so.  It's not one to put on very often, but in the right mood...I actually prefer it to STIMMUNG, probably because I like the vintage synth sounds.  Pretty hard to believe that KS was not a potsmoker tho considering this work.  It's almost a parody of hippie music.  But I enjoy as background music to doing chores, since it's nature is that you don't really have to pay attention to it.  Sort of.
Yeah. I don't like it, but I definitely know what you mean about "Stummung" (haven't heard the other one in question). It reminds me a lot of something that Riley or Young could have done. I like some minimalism, but not the "hippie" sounding kind (i.e. Riley and Young) -- rather the more somber/enigmatic/shifting kind (i.e. Reich and Adams). Ken (on GMG) really likes minimalism and (if I recall correctly) he said that "Stimmung" was the one Stockhausen work that he could somewhat appreciate.

It never occurred to me to think of "Stimmung" as spectralism, though, as James suggested. Interesting -- I see the connection with Grisey.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Leo K.

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #827 on: June 04, 2014, 03:42:18 PM »
Things I loved about Gruppen when first getting into it (at home with recordings) was the fresh, fascinating & rich layers of dialog between the 3 orchestras and it's overall visceral intensity. How it simultaneously takes a breath yet keeps you on edge. Not to mention how there is so much to be discovered and heard within the music .. it challenges & excites.

I'm just getting into it and listen to it almost everyday now, you describe it perfectly!

Offline Leo K.

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #828 on: June 04, 2014, 03:47:29 PM »
Also, I've discovered Carré and it's endlessly fascinating. WOW.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #829 on: June 04, 2014, 04:48:37 PM »
Also, I've discovered Carré and it's endlessly fascinating. WOW.

Check out Formel and Punkte.  Those are both pre-Gruppen, and somewhat more conventional, but great listens, lots of cool anglular writing.  Formel sounds like "normal" post-Romantic music almost...it actually has motifs ;)

Offline Leo K.

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #830 on: June 05, 2014, 08:16:11 AM »
Thank you Uatu and James!

I love Punkte, it simply blew me away at first hearing, my mind was completely overturned. Aces!

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #831 on: June 07, 2014, 04:21:00 PM »

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #832 on: June 09, 2014, 05:16:27 AM »
New article posted, this one is about KLANG Hours 5 through 12 (HARMONIEN, etc).

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/06/opus-85-to-92-klang-hours-5-through-12.html

These are really just gorgeous chamber pieces, but the "spirally" patterns make them kind of crystalline in a way....  They sound simple at first, but I discover something new and clever every time I hear them.  Also specific themes stay in my head, specifically one where there's this cool sliding up and down gliss figure which is kind of unmistakeable.

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #833 on: June 10, 2014, 02:05:23 AM »
Okay guys, I caved. I like "Cosmic Pulses" :-[. Just don't tell anyone on the rest of the forum, okay? ;)

I was reading about it on Wikipedia and I saw this:
Quote
During his lectures surrounding the German premiere, Stockhausen said that he had "not made up his mind concerning it" yet,[10] and he admitted that the piece might be regarded as "not music, just sound" and it might be better to "just take it as a natural phenomena [sic] and not think of composition".

This is exactly what I thought all along. You know, it's sound, but it's cool sound. So, why should I care about differentiating between music and sound if I like it? Charles Ives even once said "My god! What has sound got to do with music?!"

I also admit that I can't really listen to it for more than 15 minutes. It starts to get too jumbled and it probably would make much more sense in an octophonic sound system. But the opening is so unsettling -- it's so cool!

Is this considered one of his best works? It certainly sounds like the most complicated electronic work. I like how it has a continuous sound as opposed to the stop-start sputtering of "Kontakte", which I don't care for.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #834 on: June 10, 2014, 03:37:29 AM »
Okay guys, I caved. I like "Cosmic Pulses" :-[ . Just don't tell anyone on the rest of the forum, okay? ;)

It's okay to like one Stockhausen piece.  Even two.  Much more than that, and it's bad tone  ;)
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #835 on: June 10, 2014, 10:46:39 AM »
In the past I mentioned here that I much prefer his earlier tape-spliced pre-SIRIUS electronic works, since his more recent stuff reminds me too much of 80s pop music synth pads.  However lately I've been forcing myself to listen to the later stuff and it's slowly eradicating the associations with feathered hairdos and lighted dance floors....

Still, Cosmic Pulses doesn't do much for me until about 10 minutes in, and then 10 minutes after that it's almost too much!  I think this is one piece which would benefit very much from a light show with images of the 24 formulas scrolling in realtime.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #836 on: June 10, 2014, 10:47:25 AM »
. . . I think this is one piece which would benefit very much from a light show with images of the 24 formulas scrolling in realtime.

Or, which would benefit very much from an editor ;)
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Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #837 on: June 10, 2014, 02:03:01 PM »
It's supposed to be quite the experience live within the octagon, within that massive polyphony .. like being trapped within a giant swarm of bees, or a tornado. Perception overload was one of the things KS liked about this one.
YES! I can totally see this. I think I will call it "The Wall Cloud". Oh, wait... we're talking about Stockhausen, not Haydn symphonies...
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #838 on: June 14, 2014, 07:36:47 AM »
James, I read in another thread that you were planning to get the MITTWOCH Birmingham program book.  Did you get it?  How is it?  Is there the complete libretto in there by any chance?  I'm curious about the various invented "languages" in WELT-PARLAMENT and MICHAELION....  Apparently they require new vocal techniques? 

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #839 on: June 14, 2014, 03:23:39 PM »
OK thanks for the info, I don't have the cds, only the Youtube clips.  OK I'll get them eventually..I've got a list, and POLE is on order now.