Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 344289 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #840 on: June 15, 2014, 09:18:33 AM »


I don't know if you are all aware of this rerelease of Maderna's performance of Kontra-Punkte, which I think is outstanding (as is the Pendereki on the same CD) There's also a recording on symphonyshare with Péter Eötvös, from a concert a couple of years ago in Cologne (with the Vienna Klangforum), which is well worth hearing I think, at least if you're open to Eötvös's rather third-person style. The latter also features a particularly memorable Zeitmaße.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 09:59:59 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Leo K.

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #841 on: June 16, 2014, 12:15:45 PM »
Yea .. I have the Pollini/Eötvös/Klangforum-Wien live recordings .. the programme also includes Piano Piece VII, VIII, IX & Cross-Play .. Pollini plays those in addition to the central piano part within Kontra-Punkte.

Me too, it's a fantastic concert. Aces!

Offline Brewski

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #842 on: June 16, 2014, 12:44:04 PM »


I don't know if you are all aware of this rerelease of Maderna's performance of Kontra-Punkte, which I think is outstanding (as is the Pendereki on the same CD) There's also a recording on symphonyshare with Péter Eötvös, from a concert a couple of years ago in Cologne (with the Vienna Klangforum), which is well worth hearing I think, at least if you're open to Eötvös's rather third-person style. The latter also features a particularly memorable Zeitmaße.

I'm very happy to see this album making it onto disc, since it was one of my first exposures to "new" music (i.e., music written since say 1960).

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #843 on: June 17, 2014, 10:50:08 PM »
I'm very happy to see this album making it onto disc, since it was one of my first exposures to "new" music (i.e., music written since say 1960).

--Bruce

This is by far and away my favourite version of Kontra-Punkte, Maderna makes Eötvös sound tame to me, emotionally too reserved.

I have some serious reservations about Eötvös's style in other places too -- in Les Noces for example, he sounds tame compared with Craft's first (CBS) recording, which is also on symphonyshare, or Pokrovsky Ensemble.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 01:07:18 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #844 on: June 17, 2014, 10:50:47 PM »
How do you listen to Gruppen at home? I mean is there a recording which captures the relation between the three orchestras. Do people use headphones? To me, on recordings, it just sounds like another piece of serial music, but I'm sure the effect is very different in a concert.

Similar problems with Nono sometimes of course -- do people use headphones to listen to Prometeo?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 11:04:14 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #845 on: June 18, 2014, 01:11:08 AM »
This is by far and away my favourite version of Kontra-Punkte, Maderna makes Eötvös sound tame to me, emotionally too reserved.

I have some serious reservations about Eötvös's style in other places too -- in Les Noces for example, he sounds tame compared with Craft's first (CBS) recording, which is also on symphonyshare, or Pokrovsky Ensemble.

Everybody sounds tame compared to the Pokrovsky Ensemble recording, which is frankly rather idiosyncratic.  Please tell me that is not your benchmark Les noces8)
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Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #846 on: June 18, 2014, 02:11:32 AM »
LOUD.

It is good to have a mixer ear with this one, to have that sense of that aural clock or dial so to speak ..

Haha, James, I bet you listen to this in the car at full volume with the windows down. :laugh:

One time I was listening to the Ligeti PC with my windows down and there was a panhandler (at a red light) who walked over and asked me what I was playing. I told him it was modern classical music and he was like "You know, it ain't bad!" (it was the real jazzy opening of the piece). :laugh:.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #847 on: June 18, 2014, 05:06:45 AM »
This is by far and away my favourite version of Kontra-Punkte

Same here.  I still have the LP in fact.  It's possible other versions are better in some way, but this being my first "favorite" Stockhausen piece (and the first one where I actually "got" what was going on) this will always have a special place.  Of course it also ROCKS!

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #848 on: June 18, 2014, 05:09:48 AM »
How do you listen to Gruppen at home? I mean is there a recording which captures the relation between the three orchestras. Do people use headphones? To me, on recordings, it just sounds like another piece of serial music, but I'm sure the effect is very different in a concert.

The 3-way (or 4-way) stuff never really works because center channel stuff will always sound louder since it is distributed on left and right as well.  The ideal way (and KS suggests this in lots of 4 channel stuff) is to play it in 4 speakers, L/R in front, and L/R behind you.  Headphones works in a pinch though.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #849 on: June 18, 2014, 05:54:34 AM »
Everybody sounds tame compared to the Pokrovsky Ensemble recording, which is frankly rather idiosyncratic.  Please tell me that is not your benchmark Les noces8)

It is my benchmark recording.
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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #850 on: June 18, 2014, 05:57:32 AM »

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #851 on: June 18, 2014, 06:13:08 AM »
It is my benchmark recording.

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I asked you not to tell me that.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #852 on: June 18, 2014, 06:14:47 AM »
That's the only recording of Свадебка which I find unlistenable.

But, I am glad you like it 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #853 on: June 18, 2014, 11:45:47 AM »
Ensemble Recherche's recording is my favorite.




This was easy to hear because it's on spotify, and I'm glad I did. Tremendous sense of logic, inevitable natural flow of ideas. And wonderful sound. Thanks so much for mentioning it.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 11:51:07 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #854 on: June 18, 2014, 04:24:56 PM »
She's very cool.  I corresponded with a her a little on Youtube.  She actually studied with Majella Stockhausen in preparation for her performance of Klavierstucke XIII.  Sorry I missed this, but it was too far.  Also I have to say I don't think I would enjoy Natural Durations live so much.  That one works for me in solitude.

Klavierstucke XIII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acnPxc1Ip7E
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 04:31:27 PM by Uatu »

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #855 on: June 20, 2014, 03:51:44 PM »
Added my newest article on the Helicopter String Quartet. 

Sound Impressions
     I've always liked this piece for its vitality.  The fast tremolos are pretty fascinating as they attempt to blend with the helicopter rotor noises, and the rotor noises themselves are interesting to listen to.  I wondered if it might have been nice to have the "real sound" tracks of the helicopters in isolation as a bonus, as Stockhausen has done for the electronic parts of many other works (SIRIUS, OKTOPHONIE, etc...) but I suppose since the score does not have actual flight instructions it would be confusing to call it a "Stockhausen composition."
     I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing but because of the constant micro-tonal glissing I never really feel like I'm hearing the LICHT formula.  I suppose that's a testimony to the adaptability of the formula to different compositional permutations.  However I wish I had felt more of a sense of structural change during the flight phase.  Based on the timings it appears that the 2nd cycle is generally a slower tempo than the 1st and 3rd cycles but because of the fast tremolo playing it all seems pretty consistent, for better or worse.
     In any case, this is a deep listen for it's subtle differences, and while watching a video of the performance one gets the feeling of being at a NASA space launch as much as at a chamber music recital, which even alone is quite an achievement.  This is probably Stockhausen's most famous work of the last 30 years and is also probably the only one of his records to be sold at Walmart. (http://www.walmart.com/ip/29122099)

My analysis here:
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/06/opus-69-helikopter-streichquartett.html

If you don't already like the piece, it probably won't change your mind.  It is what it is...

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #856 on: June 21, 2014, 03:47:33 AM »
Sorry I missed this, but it was too far.  Also I have to say I don't think I would enjoy Natural Durations live so much.  That one works for me in solitude.

I went to the concert and it was quite enjoyable, a great opportunity to hear it in full live. As with the Klavierstücke, I like Natürliche Dauern quite a bit, although pieces 13-24 tend to be much less interesting than 1-12, with a couple of exceptions. I think I commented on it here in the forum when I got the recording in 2010 or 2011.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #857 on: June 22, 2014, 01:07:10 AM »
There's a complete recording of Benjamin Kobler playing Stockhausen's Natural Durations online here:

http://classical-music-online.net/en/production/43846

The sound is very good. Is it the same as the one in the Stockhausen complete edition? That one seems to have several pianists.

I've lstened to the first hour or so. Sparse textures sometimes, simple ideas.

While exploring the web a bit for Natural Durations, I came across an upload of Cornelius Cardew's scandalous essay "Stoockhausen Serves Imperialism"

http://guaciara.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/cardew_stockhausen.pdf

I've just uploaded Alfons & Aloys Kontarsky playing Stockhausen's Mantra onto symphonyshare, taken from a torrent, it seems to be an amateur transfer from the LP. I wonder if someone could say whether the sound is significantly better on the CD, available as part of the Complete Stockhausen Edition.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 01:09:49 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #858 on: June 22, 2014, 03:55:58 AM »
I went to the concert and it was quite enjoyable, a great opportunity to hear it in full live. As with the Klavierstücke, I like Natürliche Dauern quite a bit, although pieces 13-24 tend to be much less interesting than 1-12, with a couple of exceptions. I think I commented on it here in the forum when I got the recording in 2010 or 2011.

Wow, I actually like the later ones better.  I think I just get impatient for those notes to die out;)

I'll probably see this live when it comes to my city if it seems to work for most people.  I'm still kicking myself for missing Oktophonie - "I've got the CD already don't I?" - famous last words, up there with the captain of the Titanic's, quoted in my profile sig.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #859 on: June 22, 2014, 03:58:46 AM »
I've just uploaded Alfons & Aloys Kontarsky playing Stockhausen's Mantra onto symphonyshare, taken from a torrent, it seems to be an amateur transfer from the LP. I wonder if someone could say whether the sound is significantly better on the CD, available as part of the Complete Stockhausen Edition.

The Kontarsky is my favorite, but the Grau & Schumacher comes in pretty close.  Speaking of MANTRA, that's next on my list of analyses....